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Buffy fans and Angel Season 5

Discussion in 'Season 5' started by Bluebird, Aug 1, 2017.

  1. Bluebird

    Bluebird two by two, hands of blue

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    Black Thorn
    There seems to be a trend that if you prefer Buffy over Angel you enjoy Angel Season 5, if not the most. Whereas a lot of folk who prefer Angel over Buffy don't rate it very highly.

    Do you agree?

    Why do you think this is?

    I mean, I guess it's more like a Buffy season in that it has a lighter tone (by Angel standards) and continues on the Spike saga. I do enjoy the season, but it's hard not to see how different it is from what came before, and you can see where it's changed to please the network. I know a lot of Angel fans thought it a bit of a disservice to the show that it was.
     
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  2. Stoney

    Stoney Spiked!

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    It doesn't follow for me personally. I mean I love both shows, but if forced to pick I'd go with BtVS above Angel, but AtS 5 isn't my favourite season for Angel, S3 and 4 are.

    There are aspects of AtS 5 I don't like personally. Some of Spike's less admirable qualities are explored which is good for the overall character's progression and interesting but makes it less easy to simply enjoy at points. There is some inconsistency in characterisation from BtVS 7 but in ways that can make logical sense if you consider the character's insecurities and his dynamic with Angel as giving it context. Basically I have come to cerebrally appreciate the season for him as part of his overall journey regardless of not enjoying some of it as much, if that makes sense. :)

    Plus I generally don't think it was a good choice to force the writing of a character into a season like the network did. Spike's my favourite character and his presence definitely worked well to push/explore Angel's despondency, but there were points when it felt that opportunities to explore existing cast members were just put aside or missed totally because they were focusing on the Spike/Angel of the season too much. After having followed the AtS gang for four seasons to get where they had by the fifth that was just frustrating. Gunn's path to S5 in particular I thought was really interesting. I wish we had seen more of his choices in the season and his responses to it all.

    As for the tone changing. I think that worked with the group putting themselves out of their setting and being thrown off their paths by going into W&H. I didn't like the blaze of glory finish though. It seemed to me to still be getting it wrong, to go for a moment of victory over the original focus of being on the ground, helping the helpless. I did like that they finished mid-fight though, that the story/battle isn't over but is always the truth of the lives they choose. That did work well I think and of course the story continued anyway in AtF and on.
     
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  3. nightshade

    nightshade Watcher Staff Member

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    Black Thorn
    I'm not a fan of season 5, too much change and not enough feeling of continuation from the previous seasons, plus swapping out Cordy for Spike, no thanks! Plus all the new cast, Harmony, Eve, Hamilton, Knox. I guess at least we had Lindsey back though, ti bring back some of the continuation.
     
  4. Fool for Buffy

    Fool for Buffy BFF of Sour Patch Kid

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    Sineya
    This definitely applies for me. Angel season 5 is my favorite Angel season and I definitely prefer Buffy as an overall show. I will say that Spike has a lot to do with it, but there is a lot of other factors as well. For example, I couldn't stand Connor. I needed him to leave and everyone to stop having to interact with him. Also, I ship Fred and Wesley. So their situation in season 5 was great while it lasted plus the Illyria storyline was fascinating for me. Next, I love Lindsey and his story in this season. A big thing is I was pretty tired of Gunn up until this season. I'm not sure if this is a popular opinion, but Gunn the lawyer is my favorite Gunn. Harmony is great too, she has some really nice comic relief moments and I don't care that she betrays Angel because she should. Finally, this season does in fact feel more like a Buffy season for a couple of reasons. The one-off episodes are much more memorable. There is actually a "big bad" and a "final battle". Angel season 2 was really the only other season to end on a final battle, and I'm kind of indifferent about Pylea. The last reason is it deals with emotional high highs and low lows. A lot of Angel in the first four seasons I thought had a problem with having true big emotion that Buffy thrived on. But Angel season 5 provides the elation of Cordy's return and the heartbreak of her exit, the emotional gut punch of Fred, the crazy twisting of emotions in Origin, and a deserved very happy moment when Connor thanks Angel and returns to save him in Not Fade Away.
     
    MarieVampSlayer: Yes, all of this!
  5. Carrie Hopewell

    Carrie Hopewell Little girl lost in the woods

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    Sineya
    I agree with you that Buffy fans do seem to rate Angel season 5 more highly than Angel fans but Angel fans rate that season highly as well.

    I personally think that the season is definitely a disservice to the show. I get that Illyria and Wesley are memorable, and Spike is a fan favorite, but most of the season is nothing like Angel. The theme of the season - I assume it's corruption - as little to do with a character that can't be corrupted and is badly executed anyway. Season 5 is a bit like season 3 in the sense that the "champion" part of the show is forgotten about. Season 5 has too much Spike, lack of an arc (which is not proper Angel), weak stand-alone episodes, dirty humor and gratuitous sex, and the vibe of the show is all wrong. I don't find it very enjoyable for the most part. The second half of the show saves this season from being the worst Angel season by far.
     
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  6. white avenger

    white avenger white avenger

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    I did prefer Season 5 of "Angel," and I'm pretty sure that it's for the same reason that I liked the last 2 Seasons of "Buffy" more than the earlier ones. In both cases, that's when I started watching the shows regularly, and I had no preconceived notion of the characters, the set, or the story line. Arguably, "Buffy" became a more adult show with Season 6, and that appealed to me more than the high school/college years that I actually didn't watch until later, and I wasn't aware of Doyle, Cordy, Gunn, the detective agency, or the Hyperion Hotel set, so there was no conflict or great change for me to adjust to.
     
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  7. Guy

    Guy Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    Care to elaborate? I don't see how any character "can't be corrupted".
     
  8. Riderofapocalypse

    Riderofapocalypse Potential

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    Season 5 Angel isn't the greatest for me, but is still up there. Every episode was fun for me. And the near end to 'take down the man' was very enjoyable.

    I don't think Angel S5 did a disservice at all.
     
  9. Hunga Munga

    Hunga Munga Potential

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    I confess to thinking of Angel season 5 as Buffy season 8 . I m in season 6 of a Buffy rewatch at the moment . I know it's wrong but I ll be straight onto Angel season 5 after 'Chosen' . :D .

    I also love Angel as a body of work ; but not quite so often :) .
     
  10. Ethan Reigns

    Ethan Reigns Scooby

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    Sineya
    Season 5 is the answer to a question that would logically occur to someone watching the first four seasons. What would Angel (and the others in AI) do if they did not have the limitations and the hardscrabble existence of the first four years? It was like when Spike was captured by the Initiative and said, "I always wondered what would happen if that bitch got some funding." Now we get to see what AI would do if they got unlimited funding.

    This is a story similar to winning the lottery. Now that you have what you want, what are you going to do? Season 5 is by far my favourite of all five seasons. Also, the first four seasons have us holed up in the Hyperion or other places which are dark and unpleasant but now we get a much brighter show that is shot in daylight.
     
  11. GoSpuffy

    GoSpuffy Vampire Lover, I mean Slayer

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    Black Thorn
    I prefer btvs over ats and I only like S5 of Angel so I fit the profile. S5 was funnier than the others and Spangel was brilliant together. Cavemen/astronauts and you're a bloody puppet and the bike in Rome. Need I say more?
     
  12. GraceK

    GraceK Grr Arrg

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    Shh...I'm a secret Spangel :)
     
    GoSpuffy: Im a loud and proud Spangel. Angel is about a million more times interesting when paired with spike.
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  13. TriBel

    TriBel Scooby

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    It does - and - I agree. I put it down to testosterone (do vampires actually have it?) and the proximity of Angel. The relationship with Fred is a nice one but otherwise I find him very petty - a caricature. Angel's also petty (around Spike) but he has the gravitas to carry it off. In addition, the lighting in the W&H building is much brighter than it was in most of the locations in BtVS and I don't think it works in his favour. He loses his edge.
     
  14. Athena

    Athena Belinda Staff Member

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    Black Thorn
    Well I prefer BtVS and I love Angel Season 5, so textbook I guess! :D S5 has so many outstanding episodes that personally really stood out to me. I don't feel that with any other season of Angel.
     
    Taake: You just have NO taste at all :P
  15. Taake

    Taake Bella Staff Member

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    Black Thorn
    I prefer Angel over Buffy but I still rank season 5 pretty highly :) I would have liked to see it followed by a darker season 6 though!
     
    GoSpuffy: Ooooo a dark S6 with angel using Spike so he can feel??? Count me in.
  16. sk73

    sk73 The Overlooked One

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    Sineya
    Hmm, I think Buffy is the superior show in more or less all aspects.
    But I still consider season 1 of Angel as the best one and also the one that reminds me most of BtVS.

    One of the things I enjoy most with BtVS is the friendship between the scoobies.
    Personally I think they kept that pretty good over all seven seasons even though I do know many others think they lost that completely towards the last seasons.

    In Angel however I only feel the same friendship in first season or so. Later the core group feels more like people who work together to me.

    So for me does those first seasons of Angel feel more like Buffy and therefor are they also the best... :)

    /SK
     
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  17. AnthonyCordova

    AnthonyCordova Apocalypse Engine

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    Sineya
    I rarely say this about a character, because in general I like the exploration and development of a character, but I wish they would have let Spike assume a position in the background a little more, helping out but not being so much of a magnet for attention the way he always is. The writers can't let him just BE for awhile. That goes for BtVS too.

    That said, I like S5 a heck of a lot. I liked the change with them working beneath WRH and the build up in the main arc really works for me. But I also tend to prefer Angel over Buffy now, and S4 is actually my favorite Angel season, but yeah.
     
  18. Priceless

    Priceless I didn't forget y'know

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    I like BtVS more than AtS and found S5 to be pretty depressing. Angel went to work for the embodiment of evil on earth, he killed Drogyn and broke Lorne by asking him to kill Lindsey. My favourite character from the earlier seasons, Cordy, came back for one episode which was my favourite ep of the season but was really quite sad. Fred was killed by a god who took over her body, then this god lost most of her powers which could have helped in the final battle.

    We discover that Angel sired Lawson while he was souled, and seems to disregarded his advice'"You don't win a war by doing whatever it takes. You win by doing what's right." Wesley was killed, Gunn was dying. Thank God for Spike and Spangel for adding a little lightness, but even then we had to see Spike get mutilated in an effort to atone for his sins. People say BtVS S6 was depressing to watch, but for me this is the most depressing season in the verse.
     
  19. dcai0830

    dcai0830 You spent three weeks moaning in a basement!

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    Black Thorn
    Its hard to over generalize but I can see how this correlation can be made. I tend to prefer Buffy over Angel but only by the slightest of margins and only when considering BtVS Seasons 1-5. My love for AtS continues to grow on subsequent rewatches.

    I do like AtS Season 5 because it feels very Jossy to me and I'm a sucker for his writing. But I do agree that Joss doesn't get Angel the way that David Greenwalt does. I also agree that it is very different from Seasons 1-4 of AtS. Where as Seasons 1-4 were mainly David Greenwalt's work. I do think Angel Season 5 felt more like Buffy but I didn't so much mind that and I liked individual episodes.

    I like Spike and Angel together in a limited capacity. I could have used like 60% less Spangel but some of the Spangel was brilliant. My favorite Spike is the guy who is the kinda ridiculous side kick always ready with a witty remark.

    But to me the heart of AtS was late Season 1-Season 2 (pre-pylea arc) and Season 5 was really kinda worlds away from that so I can understand if you are a die hard AtS fan why you would find Season 5 off putting.