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Madido24

Townie
Joined
Dec 31, 2020
Messages
10
Age
24
BUFFY PROS AND CONS

I noticed people reviewing each season through pros and cons and I have decided to do the same as I find it more readable for another reader and more practical for me.

First off, I would like to say that I love BTVS. It has marked me quite later in late 2018 when it was already more than twenty years old! And it was still able to impact a viewer. It is now my favorite TV show of all time, I can’t think Of the Character of Buffy without getting emotional, she embodies so much good of this world and has done so much for it. That being said, my love for the show has made me very picky and very critical as well, it’s just something that I activate when I love something unconditionally, I’m just comfortable enough to tell whether or not it’s messed up, unlike with other people with which it tends to be the other way around. Sooo here we go:



SEASON 1:

+ Introduction to the mythology of BTVS with vampires being ugly demons with a large history that sometimes teases and twists real life world history

+ The overall gothic mood and blend of horror, comedy and satire

+ Solid first episodes that directly delve into the plot instead of teasing it or lingering too much on characters, we get to discover them later on

+ First, confident jump scare barely two 2 minutes into the show

+ Cool opening credits

+ The episodes laid out like comic books made televised with classical superhero plot structure

+ The characters of Xander, Willow, Giles and Cordelia being a little stereotypical but likeable (sort of)

+ Buffy herself is played well by SMG and shows signs of affection, compassion and selflessness underneath her teenage crisis, which is a sign we can trust her deeper, kinder nature

+ Bangel is not over-exploited, which leaves time for their romance to quietly and confidently develop

+ Good, emotional finale that defines Buffy as a hero rather than a teenager.

  • Lack of a real special effect direction, thin, shallow fights that established Buffy as a psychological, resourceful hero rather than a physical one.
  • SMG made weird faces, sometimes.
  • Didn’t age well, overall.


SEASON 2:

+ Expansion of the mythology, better special effects, more characters, better overall art direction. A true, objective technical and visual improvement over the previous season.

+ A more complex plot with better villains such as Spike and Angelus.

+ More ambitions towards the direction of the show but still keeping the same metaphorical essence and being subtle.

+ Shocking plot twists.

+ More emotional attachment towards Buffy as a character.

+ Filler episodes are more entertaining.

+ Killer season finale whose memory still brings tears to your eyes and established the show’s first legacy.

+ Many standout episodes : School hard, Lie to me, What’s my line 1&2 , Surprise, Innocence, Passion, I Only have eyes for you, Becoming Part 1.

+ Most pros of the previous season are still present.

+ The musical themes are haunting.



  • Main characters get to develop and some of them become unlikeable such as Xander and Cordelia, which is quite inconsistent since they were earlier established as quite likeable. Cordelia finally deciding to drop the punchline marathon and help the scoobies, Xander being an average yet helpful sidekick.
  • Some filler episodes are really bad and spoil the season’s flow: Bad eggs, Go fish, Inca Mummy, Reptile boy.
  • Jenny Calendar did not deserve to die, and the Scoobies were a little too harsh towards her.
  • Bangel’s romance is more present than the previous season, which takes off the intimacy and privileged couple minutes you get to savor when you watch them together.
  • Drusilla being more talk than real danger.


SEASON 3:

  • +More and more expansion and pricey props and special effects.
  • +The episodes taking a slightly darker tone and addressing more serious issues like murder, psychopathy, suicide and exploitation.
+Faith is introduced and it is nice to have another supernatural character to meddle with the story, and to rival Buffy. Plus she is a cool character.

+Good chemistry between SMG and Eliza D.

  • + More Bangel and this time they are imposing themselves to the viewer as unbreakable couple, which makes it even more heartbreaking to watch them break apart.
  • + Faith twisted into an interesting villain and episodes that had her made it all the more interesting to explore the rivalry and jealousy and resentment she actually had towards her co-slayer.
  • + We get a little bit of Spike
  • + Good finale that actually makes you nostalgic high school is over.
  • + Rewarding penultimate episode: The Prom, which rewarded Buffy for her heroism and the viewer for their love towards their superhero, who is more than once taken for granted.

  • Oz is useless
  • Utter character instability and inconsistency in their development. On one hand, they are loveable, and on the other, they spurt out nasty insensitive comments.
  • Insufferable moments in Dead Man’s party and Revelations from Xander, which, to this day, after the show was over, still remains inconsequential. (He judges Buffy, brings her down, acts on jealousy and selfishness to kill Angel, (WTF was he thinking?) His lying to Buffy in the season finale of the previous season was never addressed, and yet, in spite of his insensitivity, hypocrisy and lies, he still finds it okay to criticize and yell at Buffy. AND BUFFY DOESN’T EVEN GET MAD AT HIM.)
  • The writers forcing us to feel good towards Willow and Xander cheating on their partners with cute music and sensual angles from the production, while their acts are REPREHENSIBLE and condemned. Their romance was never addressed again, it was as though they had never felt attracted to each other, and then what was all that fuss about, exactly?
  • More character inconsistency with Cordelia being the same old mean bitch with utterly unrealistic punch lines, and you are forced to feel sorry for her when she’s broke, even though she still acts entitled and ignorant, in lieu of being a little humbler. No education whatsoever.
  • Faulty casting for picking actors that are / look so much older than their characters. (Charisma being 29, Nicholas 28, Alyson 25, Seth 27,) which made their immature attitude even more cringe worthy.
  • Too many attempts at being funny, which spoils the overall tone of the show, taking a more serious edge.
  • Too much blah blah from Xander, which, if cut from the sequences, would make a more even episode.
  • A pointless episode dedicated to Xander where there is no character exploration nor getting to know his past to understand him better. Instead you get a wishy-washy villain and a stupid protagonist.
  • The Mayor was forgettable as a villain.
  • Faith should have resolved her issues with Buffy.
  • You can clearly tell there’s too much subjectivity in delivering Joss Whedon’s message, too much writer’s print, too much of his own view of the world and not enough introspection on realism.
  • SMG yet again with the sporadic weirs faces…
  • You’re going to tell me that no one questions the presence of dragon-alienoid mayor in the media, newspaper, world press???????


SEASON 4 :

+ Scarier tone from the get go as Buffy feels just as lost as the viewer

+ HUSH.

+ SMG took a real delight in playing FAITH, and it SHOWED.

+ Season finale being the darkest and gloomiest in terms of atmosphere, symbolism and Fantasy, and it so happens to be a standout episode, but a good one nevertheless. You can almost feel like you’re dreaming yourself as most dream elements are present.

+ Spike was more present, which was nice

+ Harmony is always welcome.

  • Overall a weaker season with a weaker plot
  • SMG not delivering the best performance even though she did with what she had.
  • Side characters becoming useless, which makes you question, why don’t they just kill them off, bring back Faith and Angel and let’s have a supernatural fest?
  • Really uninteresting villain.
  • Really uninteresting romance between Buffy and Riley.
  • Uneven tone and lazy writing overall. It’s a pass for me.
SEASON 5:

+ The story expanding into a more plot-centered theme

+ SMG looks magnificent and delivers a much more memorable performance than previous seasons

+ You can almost feel the shift into adulthood as the plot gets more complex, character motivations get more confusing and life choices wider

+ Dawn is a nice addition and adds to Buffy’s Motivations to later save her. Contrary to what a lot of people think, I was perfectly able to understand her bond and love for her little sister even though she wasn’t really her sister. If you didn’t get the metaphor, you need to know more about family values.

+ The whole plot written as a Mystery that slowly unravels through the main villains: Glory / Ben.

+ More drama and tragedies, less immaturity, which perfectly suit the show’s then-atmosphere as they were all growing up.

+ Riley finally leaves. Finally. They were never meant to be together.

+ Spike starts to obsess over Buffy, which reaches its apex much later in the seasons.

+ A more dangerous and lethal villain, where you literally fear for Buffy and start to see her as a cheetah fighting a tiger.

+ Giles being the unwavering mentor and father figure to Buffy.

+ The best season finale of the entire television history. Yet another milestone and pillar to the show’s legacy.

+ Some standout episodes: Fool For Love, Crush, Intervention.



  • Main character being more and more useless.
  • Yet another Xander-special episode where it further proves he needs to leave or be killed off.
  • Anya being irritable the way Cordelia was (It seems Joss has a fetish for immature characters that aren’t to be taken seriously,) and her falling for Xander from Season 3 like a groupie, and submitting herself to him sexually, emotionally and romantically really prompts you to ask … How more unrealistic can this show get to prove how much of a loveable character Xander is?
  • SMG’s acting in the Body was…peculiar. It felt real, yes, but it didn’t stir any emotions in me beside a little bit of shock followed by dullness.
  • Even though the show’s turn was quite nice, you really are compelled to ask this question: Where are they going with this? Are we supposed to take it seriously or not? Vampires aren’t even an issue anymore, there are barely any fights with them and they don’t even feel like a threat compared to Glory, which puts the whole “Buffy THE VAMPIRE SLAYER” into question…
  • Too much focus on Xander and Anya’s relationship, whom I stand by my words, should have been killed. The Buffyverse is apparently not a world suited for humans as they become utterly useless.
  • Some boring episodes such as: Triangle, I was made to love you.
  • Buffy was a little mean with Spike at some points while he was being quite nice. Although she did question that later in intervention, it was quite off-character.


SEASON 6 :

+ Buffy deals with quiet depression until it’s sung out of her by force

+ SMG acts more adult and realistic and let go of most of her manners

+ The musical episode is one of the most immersive, entertaining and captivating episodes to air on TV, and the idea of singing your fears and inner thoughts adds layers and depths. A third milestone, (or forth if you consider HUSH.)

+ Buffy is finally nicer and receptive to Spike (at least the first episodes.)

+ The plot of Buffy being ripped out of heaven was an extremely effective emotional canon to not lose touch with the viewers’ attention after season 5 was considered a done deal

+ The season is darker and crueler towards its characters, making Buffy and Spike get together in a destructive relationship , killing off Tara, prompting Xander to dump Anya, and Willow to twist into the final villain. It gets less metaphorical and more soap-opera-ish, which I don’t complain about since I like the dark and black turn it took, with more drama and violence. I believe it suits Buffy the way it always should have. I feel like the show should have been more violent and scarier from the beginning as its mythology has substance and the characters as well. The metaphors shouldn’t be forced all the time.

+ The forced humor is finally dropped for a show that dares to take itself more seriously and even though the writing occasionally lacks fluidity, it’s still carried well by most of the actors who now have a better material to harness their acting skills such as SMG, james Marsters, Alyson Hannigan, Amber Benson and Emma Caulfied.

+ The side characters were finally given more relevance by being villains of their own story when they tried to be heroes, later on admitting they did what they did out of selfishness.

+ Better visuals and less corny monsters.

+ The attempted rape scene was intense but rewarding. Spike reached the apex of frustration and Buffy just didn’t know how to handle him anymore.



  • Buffy got too mean towards Spike and projected all of her hatred and frustration towards him even though he was literally her lapdog.
  • By this point, Xander has now gained a reputation of treating women poorly, and of course his horrible actions are inconsequential. He put the lives of Sunnydale in danger by invoking the musical demon and no one blames him afterwards. WORSE, the gang finds his action goofy and cute, HE KILLED PEOPLE.
  • A lot of episodes are lackluster and fail to capture the reality of our lives: Doublemeat palace. And that metaphor of people being killed by demons instead of just resigning was recycled from freshmen where the exact same canon was used to justify people leaving college so suddenly.
  • The gang went too soft on Dark Willow and Buffy being so weak and subjective towards her made me re-question her slayer ethics.
  • The fight in “Two to go” was way too inconsistent. On one hand Buffy can take multiple hits without getting tired, on the other, a simple push from Willow makes her faint on the ground.
  • The climax of the finale was lackluster. Willow being consoled by Xander and breaking down was corny and anti-climactic. It just felt like the writers had NO idea how fix the killing machine that was Willow without killing her off.
  • Yet another issue with Xander sticking his nose in Buffy’s private life and judging her on her love life with Spike. At this point, I want to ask him : WTF is your problem ? All these years and you (the writers) can’t bother to make his character develop a little? All we get from Xander is either being unfaithful, hypocritical, horrible towards women or judgmental. Why couldn’t you have made him more nurturing as he had no physical strength and was utterly useless, but you just stubbornly kept him around? Also, very classy of you to blurt out your friend was raped (which wasn’t a rape in itself, so another lie) in front of her little sister after she explicitly told you not to repeat it. He embodies toxic masculinity at its finest and is one of the worst characters of the show who on top of that get candy treatments from the writers. Why this unfair favoritism?
 
Athene
Athene
Really liked reading this :) what about season 7?
darkspook
darkspook
Also, very classy of you to blurt out your friend was raped (which wasn’t a rape in itself, so another lie)... I am if it wasn't attemptive rape what was it then?!

Madido24

Townie
Joined
Dec 31, 2020
Messages
10
Age
24
BUFFY PROS AND CONS

I noticed people reviewing each season through pros and cons and I have decided to do the same as I find it more readable for another reader and more practical for me.

First off, I would like to say that I love BTVS. It has marked me quite later in late 2018 when it was already more than twenty years old! And it was still able to impact a viewer. It is now my favorite TV show of all time, I can’t think Of the Character of Buffy without getting emotional, she embodies so much good of this world and has done so much for it. That being said, my love for the show has made me very picky and very critical as well, it’s just something that I activate when I love something unconditionally, I’m just comfortable enough to tell whether or not it’s messed up, unlike with other people with which it tends to be the other way around. Sooo here we go:



SEASON 1:

+ Introduction to the mythology of BTVS with vampires being ugly demons with a large history that sometimes teases and twists real life world history

+ The overall gothic mood and blend of horror, comedy and satire

+ Solid first episodes that directly delve into the plot instead of teasing it or lingering too much on characters, we get to discover them later on

+ First, confident jump scare barely two 2 minutes into the show

+ Cool opening credits

+ The episodes laid out like comic books made televised with classical superhero plot structure

+ The characters of Xander, Willow, Giles and Cordelia being a little stereotypical but likeable (sort of)

+ Buffy herself is played well by SMG and shows signs of affection, compassion and selflessness underneath her teenage crisis, which is a sign we can trust her deeper, kinder nature

+ Bangel is not over-exploited, which leaves time for their romance to quietly and confidently develop

+ Good, emotional finale that defines Buffy as a hero rather than a teenager.

  • Lack of a real special effect direction, thin, shallow fights that established Buffy as a psychological, resourceful hero rather than a physical one.
  • SMG made weird faces, sometimes.
  • Didn’t age well, overall.


SEASON 2:

+ Expansion of the mythology, better special effects, more characters, better overall art direction. A true, objective technical and visual improvement over the previous season.

+ A more complex plot with better villains such as Spike and Angelus.

+ More ambitions towards the direction of the show but still keeping the same metaphorical essence and being subtle.

+ Shocking plot twists.

+ More emotional attachment towards Buffy as a character.

+ Filler episodes are more entertaining.

+ Killer season finale whose memory still brings tears to your eyes and established the show’s first legacy.

+ Many standout episodes : School hard, Lie to me, What’s my line 1&2 , Surprise, Innocence, Passion, I Only have eyes for you, Becoming Part 1.

+ Most pros of the previous season are still present.

+ The musical themes are haunting.



  • Main characters get to develop and some of them become unlikeable such as Xander and Cordelia, which is quite inconsistent since they were earlier established as quite likeable. Cordelia finally deciding to drop the punchline marathon and help the scoobies, Xander being an average yet helpful sidekick.
  • Some filler episodes are really bad and spoil the season’s flow: Bad eggs, Go fish, Inca Mummy, Reptile boy.
  • Jenny Calendar did not deserve to die, and the Scoobies were a little too harsh towards her.
  • Bangel’s romance is more present than the previous season, which takes off the intimacy and privileged couple minutes you get to savor when you watch them together.
  • Drusilla being more talk than real danger.


SEASON 3:

  • +More and more expansion and pricey props and special effects.
  • +The episodes taking a slightly darker tone and addressing more serious issues like murder, psychopathy, suicide and exploitation.
+Faith is introduced and it is nice to have another supernatural character to meddle with the story, and to rival Buffy. Plus she is a cool character.

+Good chemistry between SMG and Eliza D.

  • + More Bangel and this time they are imposing themselves to the viewer as unbreakable couple, which makes it even more heartbreaking to watch them break apart.
  • + Faith twisted into an interesting villain and episodes that had her made it all the more interesting to explore the rivalry and jealousy and resentment she actually had towards her co-slayer.
  • + We get a little bit of Spike
  • + Good finale that actually makes you nostalgic high school is over.
  • + Rewarding penultimate episode: The Prom, which rewarded Buffy for her heroism and the viewer for their love towards their superhero, who is more than once taken for granted.

  • Oz is useless
  • Utter character instability and inconsistency in their development. On one hand, they are loveable, and on the other, they spurt out nasty insensitive comments.
  • Insufferable moments in Dead Man’s party and Revelations from Xander, which, to this day, after the show was over, still remains inconsequential. (He judges Buffy, brings her down, acts on jealousy and selfishness to kill Angel, (WTF was he thinking?) His lying to Buffy in the season finale of the previous season was never addressed, and yet, in spite of his insensitivity, hypocrisy and lies, he still finds it okay to criticize and yell at Buffy. AND BUFFY DOESN’T EVEN GET MAD AT HIM.)
  • The writers forcing us to feel good towards Willow and Xander cheating on their partners with cute music and sensual angles from the production, while their acts are REPREHENSIBLE and condemned. Their romance was never addressed again, it was as though they had never felt attracted to each other, and then what was all that fuss about, exactly?
  • More character inconsistency with Cordelia being the same old mean bitch with utterly unrealistic punch lines, and you are forced to feel sorry for her when she’s broke, even though she still acts entitled and ignorant, in lieu of being a little humbler. No education whatsoever.
  • Faulty casting for picking actors that are / look so much older than their characters. (Charisma being 29, Nicholas 28, Alyson 25, Seth 27,) which made their immature attitude even more cringe worthy.
  • Too many attempts at being funny, which spoils the overall tone of the show, taking a more serious edge.
  • Too much blah blah from Xander, which, if cut from the sequences, would make a more even episode.
  • A pointless episode dedicated to Xander where there is no character exploration nor getting to know his past to understand him better. Instead you get a wishy-washy villain and a stupid protagonist.
  • The Mayor was forgettable as a villain.
  • Faith should have resolved her issues with Buffy.
  • You can clearly tell there’s too much subjectivity in delivering Joss Whedon’s message, too much writer’s print, too much of his own view of the world and not enough introspection on realism.
  • SMG yet again with the sporadic weirs faces…
  • You’re going to tell me that no one questions the presence of dragon-alienoid mayor in the media, newspaper, world press???????


SEASON 4 :

+ Scarier tone from the get go as Buffy feels just as lost as the viewer

+ HUSH.

+ SMG took a real delight in playing FAITH, and it SHOWED.

+ Season finale being the darkest and gloomiest in terms of atmosphere, symbolism and Fantasy, and it so happens to be a standout episode, but a good one nevertheless. You can almost feel like you’re dreaming yourself as most dream elements are present.

+ Spike was more present, which was nice

+ Harmony is always welcome.

  • Overall a weaker season with a weaker plot
  • SMG not delivering the best performance even though she did with what she had.
  • Side characters becoming useless, which makes you question, why don’t they just kill them off, bring back Faith and Angel and let’s have a supernatural fest?
  • Really uninteresting villain.
  • Really uninteresting romance between Buffy and Riley.
  • Uneven tone and lazy writing overall. It’s a pass for me.
SEASON 5:

+ The story expanding into a more plot-centered theme

+ SMG looks magnificent and delivers a much more memorable performance than previous seasons

+ You can almost feel the shift into adulthood as the plot gets more complex, character motivations get more confusing and life choices wider

+ Dawn is a nice addition and adds to Buffy’s Motivations to later save her. Contrary to what a lot of people think, I was perfectly able to understand her bond and love for her little sister even though she wasn’t really her sister. If you didn’t get the metaphor, you need to know more about family values.

+ The whole plot written as a Mystery that slowly unravels through the main villains: Glory / Ben.

+ More drama and tragedies, less immaturity, which perfectly suit the show’s then-atmosphere as they were all growing up.

+ Riley finally leaves. Finally. They were never meant to be together.

+ Spike starts to obsess over Buffy, which reaches its apex much later in the seasons.

+ A more dangerous and lethal villain, where you literally fear for Buffy and start to see her as a cheetah fighting a tiger.

+ Giles being the unwavering mentor and father figure to Buffy.

+ The best season finale of the entire television history. Yet another milestone and pillar to the show’s legacy.

+ Some standout episodes: Fool For Love, Crush, Intervention.



  • Main character being more and more useless.
  • Yet another Xander-special episode where it further proves he needs to leave or be killed off.
  • Anya being irritable the way Cordelia was (It seems Joss has a fetish for immature characters that aren’t to be taken seriously,) and her falling for Xander from Season 3 like a groupie, and submitting herself to him sexually, emotionally and romantically really prompts you to ask … How more unrealistic can this show get to prove how much of a loveable character Xander is?
  • SMG’s acting in the Body was…peculiar. It felt real, yes, but it didn’t stir any emotions in me beside a little bit of shock followed by dullness.
  • Even though the show’s turn was quite nice, you really are compelled to ask this question: Where are they going with this? Are we supposed to take it seriously or not? Vampires aren’t even an issue anymore, there are barely any fights with them and they don’t even feel like a threat compared to Glory, which puts the whole “Buffy THE VAMPIRE SLAYER” into question…
  • Too much focus on Xander and Anya’s relationship, whom I stand by my words, should have been killed. The Buffyverse is apparently not a world suited for humans as they become utterly useless.
  • Some boring episodes such as: Triangle, I was made to love you.
  • Buffy was a little mean with Spike at some points while he was being quite nice. Although she did question that later in intervention, it was quite off-character.


SEASON 6 :

+ Buffy deals with quiet depression until it’s sung out of her by force

+ SMG acts more adult and realistic and let go of most of her manners

+ The musical episode is one of the most immersive, entertaining and captivating episodes to air on TV, and the idea of singing your fears and inner thoughts adds layers and depths. A third milestone, (or forth if you consider HUSH.)

+ Buffy is finally nicer and receptive to Spike (at least the first episodes.)

+ The plot of Buffy being ripped out of heaven was an extremely effective emotional canon to not lose touch with the viewers’ attention after season 5 was considered a done deal

+ The season is darker and crueler towards its characters, making Buffy and Spike get together in a destructive relationship , killing off Tara, prompting Xander to dump Anya, and Willow to twist into the final villain. It gets less metaphorical and more soap-opera-ish, which I don’t complain about since I like the dark and black turn it took, with more drama and violence. I believe it suits Buffy the way it always should have. I feel like the show should have been more violent and scarier from the beginning as its mythology has substance and the characters as well. The metaphors shouldn’t be forced all the time.

+ The forced humor is finally dropped for a show that dares to take itself more seriously and even though the writing occasionally lacks fluidity, it’s still carried well by most of the actors who now have a better material to harness their acting skills such as SMG, james Marsters, Alyson Hannigan, Amber Benson and Emma Caulfied.

+ The side characters were finally given more relevance by being villains of their own story when they tried to be heroes, later on admitting they did what they did out of selfishness.

+ Better visuals and less corny monsters.

+ The attempted rape scene was intense but rewarding. Spike reached the apex of frustration and Buffy just didn’t know how to handle him anymore.



  • Buffy got too mean towards Spike and projected all of her hatred and frustration towards him even though he was literally her lapdog.
  • By this point, Xander has now gained a reputation of treating women poorly, and of course his horrible actions are inconsequential. He put the lives of Sunnydale in danger by invoking the musical demon and no one blames him afterwards. WORSE, the gang finds his action goofy and cute, HE KILLED PEOPLE.
  • A lot of episodes are lackluster and fail to capture the reality of our lives: Doublemeat palace. And that metaphor of people being killed by demons instead of just resigning was recycled from freshmen where the exact same canon was used to justify people leaving college so suddenly.
  • The gang went too soft on Dark Willow and Buffy being so weak and subjective towards her made me re-question her slayer ethics.
  • The fight in “Two to go” was way too inconsistent. On one hand Buffy can take multiple hits without getting tired, on the other, a simple push from Willow makes her faint on the ground.
  • The climax of the finale was lackluster. Willow being consoled by Xander and breaking down was corny and anti-climactic. It just felt like the writers had NO idea how fix the killing machine that was Willow without killing her off.
  • Yet another issue with Xander sticking his nose in Buffy’s private life and judging her on her love life with Spike. At this point, I want to ask him : WTF is your problem ? All these years and you (the writers) can’t bother to make his character develop a little? All we get from Xander is either being unfaithful, hypocritical, horrible towards women or judgmental. Why couldn’t you have made him more nurturing as he had no physical strength and was utterly useless, but you just stubbornly kept him around? Also, very classy of you to blurt out your friend was raped (which wasn’t a rape in itself, so another lie) in front of her little sister after she explicitly told you not to repeat it. He embodies toxic masculinity at its finest and is one of the worst characters of the show who on top of that get candy treatments from the writers. Why this unfair favoritism?
SEASON 7:

+ Willow was finally subdued and grew as a person and character

+ SMG nails it with even better acting

+ The church scene between Spuffy was so iconic.

+ More violence and gore, more serious issues of democracy, leadership, independence and war are addressed, which is a good way to seal a chapter and a saga, as opposed to the first season where there was supposed to be only ONE. And they manage to do it without it getting too corny or serious.

+ An overall even season without too many controversies, following the classic series plot with the mystery slowly unraveling around the First Evil, or the Devil. It’s a little less philosophical but entertaining nevertheless.

+ Faith is back, and she’s grown and friendly.

+ The show establishing itself as an adult show rather than teenager, no censorship is spared with the profusely violent Dirty Girls or Chosen.

+ Angel makes a cameo, and that’s always a plus.

+ Caleb was actually a scary villain.

+ The mythology spanning wider and wider with the episode Get it Done, where we learn about the true essence of a Slayer, and all the previous episodes such as “Bad Girls” “Buffy VS Dracula,” “Intervention” make sense. It definitely took a while to unravel that story which almost makes you think maybe it was just a coincidence but it was a nice addition nevertheless.

  • The potential slayers spoiled a lot of the show’s runtime.
  • Spike’s relationship with Buffy is impossible. We get it. But just why?
  • Some plot points look dangerously like plot holes: The First suddenly leaving out Spike out of his plans, The gang going down to face the Vampires while all they could have done was plant a bomb in the hellmouth and let them BBQ in the sunlight. It’s not like the school wasn’t destroyed already.
  • Dawn is nice but should have died in season 5 because I don’t see her relevance anymore.
  • Xander should have had his life gouged out, not just his eye.
  • Principal Wood’s vengeful son canon was too cliché of Fantasy canons and was overused by other shows beforehand such as Charmed.
  • Buffy’s stubbornness to keep Spike alive but refusing to let herself love him is insulting to him and to the viewers. Why are you so obsessed with keeping him alive if it’s not love? Just move on already!
  • Buffy was hit with a little bit of arrogance and megalomania on some occasions, which is understandable given how traumatized she was of the toruk han and how determined she got to kill them all off, but still off-character. She could have been a more nurturing leader. It was worrisome at some points because I couldn’t recognize my superhero anymore.
  • Character development is killed off at this point. Giles lying and betraying Buffy, Xander and Willow kicking her out of her own house?????
  • YET ANOTHER Xander’s hypocrisy when Buffy had to kill Anya, who literally transformed random men into worms for pleasure. But when it came to Angel, kick his ass, right? A**hole.
  • The whole Buffy being kicked out of her house was unnecessary and did not add anything to the plot as she literally came back one episode later and things were so much worse after her departure. I had no idea why they did that but it was a miss for me.
  • The finale was inconsistent, had it not been for Angel’s amulet, everyone would have died in probably what amounted to the dumbest plan ever, to go face to face with millions of ancestral vampires in their OWN lair no less. Really a bad plan. Also, how could they have let Dawn, Anya, Andrew and Xander fight in such dangerous circumstances? The whole finale felt too forced.
  • Nicholas Brandon is a bad actor. There you go. He has witnessed so many of his loved ones die and hasn’t even shed a tear, just a lethargic look and cracking jokes. No character development whatsoever.
  • The writers teasing with Buffy’s death, by drowning her, making her suicide, draining her of her blood by her lover, and planting a sword through her, is getting irritating. If you want to kill her off, stop mocking the viewer and bloody do it. She’s a good solider but far less strong that what the writers want to make us believe and has faced a lot of stronger villains. It’s only natural for a strong yet not immortal hero to die. NO shame in that.
  • She should have been sadder for Spike’s departure but not really. Instead you get SMG smiling at what was left of Sunnydale, almost a nostalgic smile…okay… THE END.
  • We never actually see the First Evil, we only see its influence on people, and we never see it in the final battle. Okay…THE END.
  • Not the best series finale in my taste.
 

thrasherpix

Scooby
Joined
Mar 13, 2016
Messages
3,415
Age
38
Some of my favorite moments with Cordelia are in season 3, particularly where she drops her facade of being a vapid mean girl to help a crying Buffy, and also where she bluffed a vampire of being Faith despite their arguing and competition. (Also, someone who is a "queen bitch" as I think she calls herself would never let Willow out of a cage after a mere lecture on "boyfriend stealing.")

Xander comes through in the end more than once, and saved lives quite a few times which he doesn't get credit for. (He also suffers a lot that also seems to be forgotten.) I also liked how he scraped his money to buy Cordelia that dress in season 3 and kept her secret. Though he made his very reasonable doubts about Spike clear in season 7, he was the only one to ultimately support Buffy's decision with Spike in that episode, even letting the killer sleep unbound in his own home (also worth pointing out that he was the one to think Spike had a "trigger"). Anya didn't have to convince me he was nice, I'm one of those who thinks Xander deserved better than Anya. (Like Spike, I prefer Anya as a threatening villain, not comic relief or love interest.)

And also that early on in season 5, Spike did something that should've ended with him as dust, and remained a bit of a distraction until I learned to overlook his presence.


That aside...season 1's best and worst attribute are camp. Since I have a taste for campy fun (as long as it's self-aware as it was) I was fine with it. I doubt I'd have gotten into the series had I started with season 2, but then I can see why season 1 would turn many off.


Season 2, oh gods the drama and plot twists, but in a good way (most of the time). I especially loved the Angelus arc (which made up for all the Bangel that I had to endure and not a fan of, to me Angel, not including Angelus, didn't get interesting until he got his own show) all the way to the end, though Spike standing up out of that wheelchair is also a moment I love. Now THAT is a dark season. The only problem I have with Jenny dying (though she was a favorite character of mine, perhaps the one I can relate to the most) is that she didn't have a cross with her, though she showed she had a cross with her in earlier eps (heck, even just a failed attempt to use one would mollify me on that), and I have to heacanon that she had a subconscious death wish for her guilt, both to Giles and the students, but also to her uncle and tribe.

Offhand, the only thing I can think of that I really dislike about season 2 is the on the nose metaphors that were more common than in most other seasons, and the humor could get really juvenile at times. There are glaring moments like where Oz the werewolf is about to pounce on a fallen Willow, and yet suddenly gets distracted by a scent and runs off (I like to pretend this didn't happen and she got away somehow, or maybe her latent magical abilities did a spontaneous olfactory glamor in self-defense). This is arguably my favorite season, however.


Season 3, this one expands on the characters and gives them more depth. I loved the Wishverse eps. I loved the rebellion against Wesley, especially when Oz ended the discussion by destroying the ritual components so that they could make the trade for Willow, and the "mission impossible" was fun (though really, what principal and security guard would lock themselves in a room supposedly filled with drug dealers?), though I'm not sure what to make of Willow staking a vampire with a pencil and telekinesis (part of me thinks brilliant, another part is that's just sad, why does Buffy need a stake anyway?). As I said, some of my favorite Cordelia moments are in this season. Overall satisfying to me.

I have mixed feelings about Wesley. I wanted him killed off, but...suffice to say I like what they did with him in Angel's show, and that in turn makes me retroactively like Wes in this season.

That said, there were some really hardcore shoehorned dialog and scenarios with unwelcome tropes that bothered me (the worst other than season 7, IMO, which is saying something), and there are some things that just beg for an explanation that I can't headcanon away (like no parents at graduation, I can't believe they ALL were convinced to stay away). But I was still loving the show at this time and it convinced me to buy the entire series.


Season 4...nice tonal shift, and some of the best eps in the series, though it took a second viewing before this season really grew on me. I liked Giles the bachelor. I liked how Xander helped Buffy believe in herself again. I think this almost the only time the Scoobies turn on Buffy for unnecessary drama that felt authentic, unlike most of the times that they do. I love the ending, and I also like the dream that came after, but I can understand why others wouldn't.

Mixed feelings on the Oz/Tara bit. It was okay, I guess, but I think it needed more episodes to make it awesome, which I believe was the original plan but the actor who played Oz bailed out early (as did the one playing Professor Walsh).

What I don't like is Buffy getting dumber for college, at least for awhile. Maybe she was just more vulnerable, but I did not care for it. It feels to me (and I think Joss said so) that Buffy was forced to play the role of what Joss considers the "typical college girl" until later on. (Though she does seem to have abandonment issues, and I can believe she'd only be subconsciously attracted to doomed relationships because of that, as some people do in that situation.)



Season 5. Many say season 6 is the most sad and realistic. I disagree, and say season 5 is in both the literal and metaphorical sense. I loved Buffy taking on the Watcher's Council as well. I thought Dawn was a bold creative move and actually liked it. This is Buffy the General at her finest in the series.

I did not care for the Dracula eps for more reasons than I care to go into. After Spike proved dangerous even with a chip and nearly got Riley killed, I didn't see why he wasn't dusted...in fact that ep played on that, but ends with it being a dream where Spike and Buffy kiss. People gripe with what Xander gets away with, but Xander is small potatoes considering what Spike is constantly getting away with.



Season 6. Such a very good start, and I absolutely love the first 3 episodes.

But at the time I saw it I was dealing with my own poverty and couldn't feel any real connection to her. I've been exposed to addiction situations a lot, from alcoholic parents to junkies hiding from the law in abandoned buildings, but this felt like an afterschool special, and I also didn't care for their changing "womyn power" (at least the romance and eroticism between Willow and Tara) that it seemed to imply magic to be in season 4 (and reaffirmed when Xander sings) to "addiction" in season 6 (one that feels like the old "the devil will corrupt the women and turn them into wanton witches"), though there are easy ways to fix this--even then I'd have preferred Willow to simply suffer hubris, similar to Faith in season 3, especially as she feels unappreciated. Gile's character, one who wanted to feel needed, does a huge turnaround without explanation (though I've invented my own headcanon for it). The Riley episode feels like Riley worshiping fanfic that irritated me (which the script seems to confirm that it is). And if a metaphor for depression, I can only wish one could climb out of the pit of it as suddenly as Buffy does at the end of this season. And while I've changed my mind on quite a few things (in fact, I used to loathe the literal "loan shark" as "too Star Wars, doesn't belong in the Buffyverse" to loving it now), after years of debate, I know that I will NEVER accept that Xander conjured Sweet or that Spike was the Doctor (and what gag shop sells plastic stakes that can actually stake, but not kill, a vampire?).



Season 7. Not much good here, though I went in hopeful on first viewing. Much of what was good (which wasn't much, IMO) was done better in earlier seasons. Offhand, the only scenes special to this season are when Buffy has to counsel her own sister, and I also liked where Spike led Buffy down to a basement where vampires erupted from the dirt floor. I guess I'll give it points for Xander's "you're extraordinary" speech, and also Anya's origin story.

The problems I have with this season are legion that can't be summed up in a single paragraph. I will say the first time I saw this I had to rewind it once because I thought I must've missed something, and then assumed magic was at work (it wasn't), and that while I've always seen Buffy as flawed (but loved her because of that), this is the only season in which I actually dislike the character (not that anyone was that likable this season to me). I get the feeling that the writers were burned out, as were some actors, including SMG. This was so bad to me that I refused to buy the Angel dvds for many years (figuring whatever went wrong here also afflicted the other series), and only did because a couple of kids begged me to (and don't regret it).
 
Last edited:
Madido24
Madido24
That's true ! Xander could be very helpful and cheering and that's why I said he should have been more nurturing. Instead there's an endless character instability where he just gets insensitive and hateful and I'm like ??

Madido24

Townie
Joined
Dec 31, 2020
Messages
10
Age
24
Some of my favorite moments with Cordelia are in season 3, particularly where she drops her facade of being a vapid mean girl to help a crying Buffy, and also where she bluffed a vampire of being Faith despite their arguing and competition. (Also, someone who is a "queen bitch" as I think she calls herself would never let Willow out of a cage after a mere lecture on "boyfriend stealing.")

Xander comes through in the end more than once, and saved lives quite a few times which he doesn't get credit for. (He also suffers a lot that also seems to be forgotten.) I also liked how he scraped his money to buy Cordelia that dress in season 3 and kept her secret. Though he made his very reasonable doubts about Spike clear in season 7, he was the only one to ultimately support Buffy's decision with Spike in that episode, even letting the killer sleep unbound in his own home (also worth pointing out that he was the one to think Spike had a "trigger"). Anya didn't have to convince me he was nice, I'm one of those who thinks Xander deserved better than Anya. (Like Spike, I prefer Anya as a threatening villain, not comic relief or love interest.)

And also that early on in season 5, Spike did something that should've ended with him as dust, and remained a bit of a distraction until I learned to overlook his presence.


That aside...season 1's best and worst attribute are camp. Since I have a taste for campy fun (as long as it's self-aware as it was) I was fine with it. I doubt I'd have gotten into the series had I started with season 2, but then I can see why season 1 would turn many off.


Season 2, oh gods the drama and plot twists, but in a good way (most of the time). I especially loved the Angelus arc (which made up for all the Bangel that I had to endure and not a fan of, to me Angel, not including Angelus, didn't get interesting until he got his own show) all the way to the end, though Spike standing up out of that wheelchair is also a moment I love. Now THAT is a dark season. The only problem I have with Jenny dying (though she was a favorite character of mine, perhaps the one I can relate to the most) is that she didn't have a cross with her, though she showed she had a cross with her in earlier eps (heck, even just a failed attempt to use one would mollify me on that), and I have to heacanon that she had a subconscious death wish for her guilt, both to Giles and the students, but also to her uncle and tribe.

Offhand, the only thing I can think of that I really dislike about season 2 is the on the nose metaphors that were more common than in most other seasons, and the humor could get really juvenile at times. There are glaring moments like where Oz the werewolf is about to pounce on a fallen Willow, and yet suddenly gets distracted by a scent and runs off (I like to pretend this didn't happen and she got away somehow, or maybe her latent magical abilities did a spontaneous olfactory glamor in self-defense). This is arguably my favorite season, however.


Season 3, this one expands on the characters and gives them more depth. I loved the Wishverse eps. I loved the rebellion against Wesley, especially when Oz ended the discussion by destroying the ritual components so that they could make the trade for Willow, and the "mission impossible" was fun (though really, what principal and security guard would lock themselves in a room supposedly filled with drug dealers?), though I'm not sure what to make of Willow staking a vampire with a pencil and telekinesis (part of me thinks brilliant, another part is that's just sad, why does Buffy need a stake anyway?). As I said, some of my favorite Cordelia moments are in this season. Overall satisfying to me.

I have mixed feelings about Wesley. I wanted him killed off, but...suffice to say I like what they did with him in Angel's show, and that in turn makes me retroactively like Wes in this season.

That said, there were some really hardcore shoehorned dialog and scenarios with unwelcome tropes that bothered me (the worst other than season 7, IMO, which is saying something), and there are some things that just beg for an explanation that I can't headcanon away (like no parents at graduation, I can't believe they ALL were convinced to stay away). But I was still loving the show at this time and it convinced me to buy the entire series.


Season 4...nice tonal shift, and some of the best eps in the series, though it took a second viewing before this season really grew on me. I liked Giles the bachelor. I liked how Xander helped Buffy believe in herself again. I think this almost the only time the Scoobies turn on Buffy for unnecessary drama that felt authentic, unlike most of the times that they do. I love the ending, and I also like the dream that came after, but I can understand why others wouldn't.

Mixed feelings on the Oz/Tara bit. It was okay, I guess, but I think it needed more episodes to make it awesome, which I believe was the original plan but the actor who played Oz bailed out early (as did the one playing Professor Walsh).

What I don't like is Buffy getting dumber for college, at least for awhile. Maybe she was just more vulnerable, but I did not care for it. It feels to me (and I think Joss said so) that Buffy was forced to play the role of what Joss considers the "typical college girl" until later on. (Though she does seem to have abandonment issues, and I can believe she'd only be subconsciously attracted to doomed relationships because of that, as some people do in that situation.)



Season 5. Many say season 6 is the most sad and realistic. I disagree, and say season 5 is in both the literal and metaphorical sense. I loved Buffy taking on the Watcher's Council as well. I thought Dawn was a bold creative move and actually liked it. This is Buffy the General at her finest in the series.

I did not care for the Dracula eps for more reasons than I care to go into. After Spike proved dangerous even with a chip and nearly got Riley killed, I didn't see why he wasn't dusted...in fact that ep played on that, but ends with it being a dream where Spike and Buffy kiss. People gripe with what Xander gets away with, but Xander is small potatoes considering what Spike is constantly getting away with.



Season 6. Such a very good start, and I absolutely love the first 3 episodes.

But at the time I saw it I was dealing with my own poverty and couldn't feel any real connection to her. I've been exposed to addiction situations a lot, from alcoholic parents to junkies hiding from the law in abandoned buildings, but this felt like an afterschool special, and I also didn't care for their changing "womyn power" (at least the romance and eroticism between Willow and Tara) that it seemed to imply magic to be in season 4 (and reaffirmed when Xander sings) to "addiction" in season 6 (one that feels like the old "the devil will corrupt the women and turn them into wanton witches"), though there are easy ways to fix this--even then I'd have preferred Willow to simply suffer hubris, similar to Faith in season 3, especially as she feels unappreciated. Gile's character, one who wanted to feel needed, does a huge turnaround without explanation (though I've invented my own headcanon for it). The Riley episode feels like Riley worshiping fanfic that irritated me (which the script seems to confirm that it is). And if a metaphor for depression, I can only wish one could climb out of the pit of it as suddenly as Buffy does at the end of this season. And while I've changed my mind on quite a few things (in fact, I used to loathe the literal "loan shark" as "too Star Wars, doesn't belong in the Buffyverse" to loving it now), after years of debate, I know that I will NEVER accept that Xander conjured Sweet or that Spike was the Doctor (and what gag shop sells plastic stakes that can actually stake, but not kill, a vampire?).



Season 7. Not much good here, though I went in hopeful on first viewing. Much of what was good (which wasn't much, IMO) was done better in earlier seasons. Offhand, the only scenes special to this season are when Buffy has to counsel her own sister, and I also liked where Spike led Buffy down to a basement where vampires erupted from the dirt floor. I guess I'll give it points for Xander's "you're extraordinary" speech, and also Anya's origin story.

The problems I have with this season are legion that can't be summed up in a single paragraph. I will say the first time I saw this I had to rewind it once because I thought I must've missed something, and then assumed magic was at work (it wasn't), and that while I've always seen Buffy as flawed (but loved her because of that), this is the only season in which I actually dislike the character (not that anyone was that likable this season to me). I get the feeling that the writers were burned out, as were some actors, including SMG. This was so bad to me that I refused to buy the Angel dvds for many years (figuring whatever went wrong here also afflicted the other series), and only did because a couple of kids begged me to (and don't regret it).
Some of my favorite moments with Cordelia are in season 3, particularly where she drops her facade of being a vapid mean girl to help a crying Buffy, and also where she bluffed a vampire of being Faith despite their arguing and competition. (Also, someone who is a "queen bitch" as I think she calls herself would never let Willow out of a cage after a mere lecture on "boyfriend stealing.")

Xander comes through in the end more than once, and saved lives quite a few times which he doesn't get credit for. (He also suffers a lot that also seems to be forgotten.) I also liked how he scraped his money to buy Cordelia that dress in season 3 and kept her secret. Though he made his very reasonable doubts about Spike clear in season 7, he was the only one to ultimately support Buffy's decision with Spike in that episode, even letting the killer sleep unbound in his own home (also worth pointing out that he was the one to think Spike had a "trigger"). Anya didn't have to convince me he was nice, I'm one of those who thinks Xander deserved better than Anya. (Like Spike, I prefer Anya as a threatening villain, not comic relief or love interest.)

And also that early on in season 5, Spike did something that should've ended with him as dust, and remained a bit of a distraction until I learned to overlook his presence.


That aside...season 1's best and worst attribute are camp. Since I have a taste for campy fun (as long as it's self-aware as it was) I was fine with it. I doubt I'd have gotten into the series had I started with season 2, but then I can see why season 1 would turn many off.


Season 2, oh gods the drama and plot twists, but in a good way (most of the time). I especially loved the Angelus arc (which made up for all the Bangel that I had to endure and not a fan of, to me Angel, not including Angelus, didn't get interesting until he got his own show) all the way to the end, though Spike standing up out of that wheelchair is also a moment I love. Now THAT is a dark season. The only problem I have with Jenny dying (though she was a favorite character of mine, perhaps the one I can relate to the most) is that she didn't have a cross with her, though she showed she had a cross with her in earlier eps (heck, even just a failed attempt to use one would mollify me on that), and I have to heacanon that she had a subconscious death wish for her guilt, both to Giles and the students, but also to her uncle and tribe.

Offhand, the only thing I can think of that I really dislike about season 2 is the on the nose metaphors that were more common than in most other seasons, and the humor could get really juvenile at times. There are glaring moments like where Oz the werewolf is about to pounce on a fallen Willow, and yet suddenly gets distracted by a scent and runs off (I like to pretend this didn't happen and she got away somehow, or maybe her latent magical abilities did a spontaneous olfactory glamor in self-defense). This is arguably my favorite season, however.


Season 3, this one expands on the characters and gives them more depth. I loved the Wishverse eps. I loved the rebellion against Wesley, especially when Oz ended the discussion by destroying the ritual components so that they could make the trade for Willow, and the "mission impossible" was fun (though really, what principal and security guard would lock themselves in a room supposedly filled with drug dealers?), though I'm not sure what to make of Willow staking a vampire with a pencil and telekinesis (part of me thinks brilliant, another part is that's just sad, why does Buffy need a stake anyway?). As I said, some of my favorite Cordelia moments are in this season. Overall satisfying to me.

I have mixed feelings about Wesley. I wanted him killed off, but...suffice to say I like what they did with him in Angel's show, and that in turn makes me retroactively like Wes in this season.

That said, there were some really hardcore shoehorned dialog and scenarios with unwelcome tropes that bothered me (the worst other than season 7, IMO, which is saying something), and there are some things that just beg for an explanation that I can't headcanon away (like no parents at graduation, I can't believe they ALL were convinced to stay away). But I was still loving the show at this time and it convinced me to buy the entire series.


Season 4...nice tonal shift, and some of the best eps in the series, though it took a second viewing before this season really grew on me. I liked Giles the bachelor. I liked how Xander helped Buffy believe in herself again. I think this almost the only time the Scoobies turn on Buffy for unnecessary drama that felt authentic, unlike most of the times that they do. I love the ending, and I also like the dream that came after, but I can understand why others wouldn't.

Mixed feelings on the Oz/Tara bit. It was okay, I guess, but I think it needed more episodes to make it awesome, which I believe was the original plan but the actor who played Oz bailed out early (as did the one playing Professor Walsh).

What I don't like is Buffy getting dumber for college, at least for awhile. Maybe she was just more vulnerable, but I did not care for it. It feels to me (and I think Joss said so) that Buffy was forced to play the role of what Joss considers the "typical college girl" until later on. (Though she does seem to have abandonment issues, and I can believe she'd only be subconsciously attracted to doomed relationships because of that, as some people do in that situation.)



Season 5. Many say season 6 is the most sad and realistic. I disagree, and say season 5 is in both the literal and metaphorical sense. I loved Buffy taking on the Watcher's Council as well. I thought Dawn was a bold creative move and actually liked it. This is Buffy the General at her finest in the series.

I did not care for the Dracula eps for more reasons than I care to go into. After Spike proved dangerous even with a chip and nearly got Riley killed, I didn't see why he wasn't dusted...in fact that ep played on that, but ends with it being a dream where Spike and Buffy kiss. People gripe with what Xander gets away with, but Xander is small potatoes considering what Spike is constantly getting away with.



Season 6. Such a very good start, and I absolutely love the first 3 episodes.

But at the time I saw it I was dealing with my own poverty and couldn't feel any real connection to her. I've been exposed to addiction situations a lot, from alcoholic parents to junkies hiding from the law in abandoned buildings, but this felt like an afterschool special, and I also didn't care for their changing "womyn power" (at least the romance and eroticism between Willow and Tara) that it seemed to imply magic to be in season 4 (and reaffirmed when Xander sings) to "addiction" in season 6 (one that feels like the old "the devil will corrupt the women and turn them into wanton witches"), though there are easy ways to fix this--even then I'd have preferred Willow to simply suffer hubris, similar to Faith in season 3, especially as she feels unappreciated. Gile's character, one who wanted to feel needed, does a huge turnaround without explanation (though I've invented my own headcanon for it). The Riley episode feels like Riley worshiping fanfic that irritated me (which the script seems to confirm that it is). And if a metaphor for depression, I can only wish one could climb out of the pit of it as suddenly as Buffy does at the end of this season. And while I've changed my mind on quite a few things (in fact, I used to loathe the literal "loan shark" as "too Star Wars, doesn't belong in the Buffyverse" to loving it now), after years of debate, I know that I will NEVER accept that Xander conjured Sweet or that Spike was the Doctor (and what gag shop sells plastic stakes that can actually stake, but not kill, a vampire?).



Season 7. Not much good here, though I went in hopeful on first viewing. Much of what was good (which wasn't much, IMO) was done better in earlier seasons. Offhand, the only scenes special to this season are when Buffy has to counsel her own sister, and I also liked where Spike led Buffy down to a basement where vampires erupted from the dirt floor. I guess I'll give it points for Xander's "you're extraordinary" speech, and also Anya's origin story.

The problems I have with this season are legion that can't be summed up in a single paragraph. I will say the first time I saw this I had to rewind it once because I thought I must've missed something, and then assumed magic was at work (it wasn't), and that while I've always seen Buffy as flawed (but loved her because of that), this is the only season in which I actually dislike the character (not that anyone was that likable this season to me). I get the feeling that the writers were burned out, as were some actors, including SMG. This was so bad to me that I refused to buy the Angel dvds for many years (figuring whatever went wrong here also afflicted the other series), and only did because a couple of kids begged me to (and don't regret it).
About season 3 : That's the thing about Cordelia and about most characters. They do seem to harbor maturity inside of them and are ready to grow but then they just fall back to being assholes ._. Xander bought a dress for Cordelia out of guilt for cheating on her and almost killing her lol, that's the least he owed her and of course it'll be kept private, do you expect them to brag about it ? x)
About season 5 : Yeah, it was very realistic and important for me too!
Season 6 : The addiction thing was lost for metaphors like I said it was becoming a soap opera rather than a real reflection on reality.
Season 7 : Yeah I agree ! It was quite forgettable ! Buffy was off-character a lot of times and I didn't recognize her at some point, true. In fact I posted an updated forum where I shared pros and cons of season 7 ! They're down below !
 

Athene

Scooby
Joined
Apr 8, 2017
Messages
2,524
Age
20
Sineya
Didn’t age well, overall.
It's probably because I'm already in love with the show and characters but I think season 1 is one of the best seasons I would rank them 3, 2, 5, 1, 4, 7, 6. That's a question how would you rank them?
 
Madido24
Madido24
@Athene I think season 1 has a lot of personnality as well ! Mine are 2 - 5 - 6 - 1 - 7 - 3 -4 !

Athene

Scooby
Joined
Apr 8, 2017
Messages
2,524
Age
20
Sineya
@Madido24 Little different to mine then 😄 what about Top ten characters?
 
Madido24
Madido24
@Athene Definitely. -1 Buffy 2- Angel 3- Spike 4- Faith 5- Harmony 6- Tara 7- Fred 8- Wesley 9- Willow 10- Mrs Calendar. You?

Priceless

Scooby
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
8,042
Location
UK
I love every season of Buffy, but for me it goes from best to just a little less best, 6 & 7 > 5, 3, 2 & 4 > 1

I am a massive Spuffy fan, so of course the last seasons are my favourites. I am a fan of General Buffy and Depressed Buffy and Buffy's growth as a character. I think Dawn, Xander and Faith are at their best in Season 7, and Anya is great in Seasons 6 & 7. I love all the Giles and Willow scenes in 6 and Giles being knocked off his perch in 7 and Willow becoming a Goddess, which seems fitting. I like what Kennedy, Robin and the Potentials add to the story.
 

TriBel

Scooby
Joined
Jun 25, 2017
Messages
2,675
Location
Manchester
I'm more or less with her 👆 @Priceless - though mine is a countdown - 7,6,5,4,3,2,1. - I don't pay much attention to the high school years. And I like ALL the comics ("like" is stretching it with S12 but it interests me). I don't do "pros and cons" - I take the rough with the smooth (I don't see many cons. For me it's very coherent...I can usually reason its perceived flaws). I don't "love" BtVS but I do acknowledge it as an incredibly intelligent text.
 

Priceless

Scooby
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
8,042
Location
UK
I'm more or less with her 👆 @Priceless - though mine is a countdown - 7,6,5,4,3,2,1. - I don't pay much attention to the high school years. And I like ALL the comics ("like" is stretching it with S12 but it interests me). I don't do "pros and cons" - I take the rough with the smooth (I don't see many cons. For me it's very coherent...I can usually reason its perceived flaws). I don't "love" BtVS but I do acknowledge it as an incredibly intelligent text.
If I were to count the comics, my list would be, from best to worst,
S6 , S7, S11, S5, S10, S3, S4, S2, S9, S8, S1, S12 . . . I loved the slow build up of Spike/Buffy in the comics, and them facing their issues and learning to live openly together . . . until the evil that is season 12 :mad: 😁
 

TriBel

Scooby
Joined
Jun 25, 2017
Messages
2,675
Location
Manchester
If I were to count the comics, my list would be, from best to worst,
S6 , S7, S11, S5, S10, S3, S4, S2, S9, S8, S1, S12 . . . I loved the slow build up of Spike/Buffy in the comics, and them facing their issues and learning to live openly together . . . until the evil that is season 12 :mad: 😁
I have a sneaky admiration for the madness that is S8. I kinda want to cuddle it and say "there, there...it'll be okay"... 🤗 (I've no idea what that emoji is) and I love the Bug Ship (RIP Sebastian 😞). I like comic Spike...both IDW and DH. In fact, I'd pay to watch IDW.
 

Priceless

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I have a sneaky admiration for the madness that is S8. I kinda want to cuddle it and say "there, there...it'll be okay"... 🤗 (I've no idea what that emoji is) and I love the Bug Ship (RIP Sebastian 😞). I like comic Spike...both IDW and DH. In fact, I'd pay to watch IDW.
People have such a downer on Season 8, when they should just lie back and go with it. It's very similar to Angel season 4 I think, big and operatic and quite mad on occasion. It encompasses the whole universe and makes others as it goes and is a lot of fun.
 

TriBel

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People have such a downer on Season 8, when they should just lie back and go with it. It's very similar to Angel season 4 I think, big and operatic and quite mad on occasion. It encompasses the whole universe and makes others as it goes and is a lot of fun.
It occurred to me when we were talking about the relationship between Buffy and Willow that I needed to reread S8. It's just so...daunting...actual size and philosophical scope. I think I've got to the stage where BtVS Library Editions and Absolute Sandmans are purely decorative. I can feel them looking at me in disgust...😣
 

Athene

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Sineya
@Madido24 Cool to see Jenny in a top ten 😃 I'd say 1. Faith 2. Buffy 3. Dawn 4. Xander 5. Angel 6. Wesley 7. Tara 8. Willow 9. Gunn 10. Fred.
 

darkspook

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He embodies toxic masculinity at its finest and is one of the worst characters of the show who on top of that get candy treatments from the writers.
Yes he can be a jerk at times but in the same way Willow can be a bitch at times and Buffy can be cold. It is character flaws which maybe you just didn't like which is fine each to your own. But I will say that I think you are slightly off base when you say he got candy treatments from the writers as I feel the writers did nothing with his character. You youself in your post complain that he is given nothing to do so how is that a candy treatment? Spike got far more growth and screentime that Xander ever did! If anyone got candy treatment it was him.
 
Madido24
Madido24
Character development is not candy treatment, it’s a natural process that every character goes through lol . @darkspook

Madido24

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BUFFY PROS AND CONS

I noticed people reviewing each season through pros and cons and I have decided to do the same as I find it more readable for another reader and more practical for me.

First off, I would like to say that I love BTVS. It has marked me quite later in late 2018 when it was already more than twenty years old! And it was still able to impact a viewer. It is now my favorite TV show of all time, I can’t think Of the Character of Buffy without getting emotional, she embodies so much good of this world and has done so much for it. That being said, my love for the show has made me very picky and very critical as well, it’s just something that I activate when I love something unconditionally, I’m just comfortable enough to tell whether or not it’s messed up, unlike with other people with which it tends to be the other way around. Sooo here we go:



SEASON 1:

+ Introduction to the mythology of BTVS with vampires being ugly demons with a large history that sometimes teases and twists real life world history

+ The overall gothic mood and blend of horror, comedy and satire

+ Solid first episodes that directly delve into the plot instead of teasing it or lingering too much on characters, we get to discover them later on

+ First, confident jump scare barely two 2 minutes into the show

+ Cool opening credits

+ The episodes laid out like comic books made televised with classical superhero plot structure

+ The characters of Xander, Willow, Giles and Cordelia being a little stereotypical but likeable (sort of)

+ Buffy herself is played well by SMG and shows signs of affection, compassion and selflessness underneath her teenage crisis, which is a sign we can trust her deeper, kinder nature

+ Bangel is not over-exploited, which leaves time for their romance to quietly and confidently develop

+ Good, emotional finale that defines Buffy as a hero rather than a teenager.

  • Lack of a real special effect direction, thin, shallow fights that established Buffy as a psychological, resourceful hero rather than a physical one.
  • SMG made weird faces, sometimes.
  • Didn’t age well, overall.


SEASON 2:

+ Expansion of the mythology, better special effects, more characters, better overall art direction. A true, objective technical and visual improvement over the previous season.

+ A more complex plot with better villains such as Spike and Angelus.

+ More ambitions towards the direction of the show but still keeping the same metaphorical essence and being subtle.

+ Shocking plot twists.

+ More emotional attachment towards Buffy as a character.

+ Filler episodes are more entertaining.

+ Killer season finale whose memory still brings tears to your eyes and established the show’s first legacy.

+ Many standout episodes : School hard, Lie to me, What’s my line 1&2 , Surprise, Innocence, Passion, I Only have eyes for you, Becoming Part 1.

+ Most pros of the previous season are still present.

+ The musical themes are haunting.



  • Main characters get to develop and some of them become unlikeable such as Xander and Cordelia, which is quite inconsistent since they were earlier established as quite likeable. Cordelia finally deciding to drop the punchline marathon and help the scoobies, Xander being an average yet helpful sidekick.
  • Some filler episodes are really bad and spoil the season’s flow: Bad eggs, Go fish, Inca Mummy, Reptile boy.
  • Jenny Calendar did not deserve to die, and the Scoobies were a little too harsh towards her.
  • Bangel’s romance is more present than the previous season, which takes off the intimacy and privileged couple minutes you get to savor when you watch them together.
  • Drusilla being more talk than real danger.


SEASON 3:

  • +More and more expansion and pricey props and special effects.
  • +The episodes taking a slightly darker tone and addressing more serious issues like murder, psychopathy, suicide and exploitation.
+Faith is introduced and it is nice to have another supernatural character to meddle with the story, and to rival Buffy. Plus she is a cool character.

+Good chemistry between SMG and Eliza D.

  • + More Bangel and this time they are imposing themselves to the viewer as unbreakable couple, which makes it even more heartbreaking to watch them break apart.
  • + Faith twisted into an interesting villain and episodes that had her made it all the more interesting to explore the rivalry and jealousy and resentment she actually had towards her co-slayer.
  • + We get a little bit of Spike
  • + Good finale that actually makes you nostalgic high school is over.
  • + Rewarding penultimate episode: The Prom, which rewarded Buffy for her heroism and the viewer for their love towards their superhero, who is more than once taken for granted.

  • Oz is useless
  • Utter character instability and inconsistency in their development. On one hand, they are loveable, and on the other, they spurt out nasty insensitive comments.
  • Insufferable moments in Dead Man’s party and Revelations from Xander, which, to this day, after the show was over, still remains inconsequential. (He judges Buffy, brings her down, acts on jealousy and selfishness to kill Angel, (WTF was he thinking?) His lying to Buffy in the season finale of the previous season was never addressed, and yet, in spite of his insensitivity, hypocrisy and lies, he still finds it okay to criticize and yell at Buffy. AND BUFFY DOESN’T EVEN GET MAD AT HIM.)
  • The writers forcing us to feel good towards Willow and Xander cheating on their partners with cute music and sensual angles from the production, while their acts are REPREHENSIBLE and condemned. Their romance was never addressed again, it was as though they had never felt attracted to each other, and then what was all that fuss about, exactly?
  • More character inconsistency with Cordelia being the same old mean bitch with utterly unrealistic punch lines, and you are forced to feel sorry for her when she’s broke, even though she still acts entitled and ignorant, in lieu of being a little humbler. No education whatsoever.
  • Faulty casting for picking actors that are / look so much older than their characters. (Charisma being 29, Nicholas 28, Alyson 25, Seth 27,) which made their immature attitude even more cringe worthy.
  • Too many attempts at being funny, which spoils the overall tone of the show, taking a more serious edge.
  • Too much blah blah from Xander, which, if cut from the sequences, would make a more even episode.
  • A pointless episode dedicated to Xander where there is no character exploration nor getting to know his past to understand him better. Instead you get a wishy-washy villain and a stupid protagonist.
  • The Mayor was forgettable as a villain.
  • Faith should have resolved her issues with Buffy.
  • You can clearly tell there’s too much subjectivity in delivering Joss Whedon’s message, too much writer’s print, too much of his own view of the world and not enough introspection on realism.
  • SMG yet again with the sporadic weirs faces…
  • You’re going to tell me that no one questions the presence of dragon-alienoid mayor in the media, newspaper, world press???????


SEASON 4 :

+ Scarier tone from the get go as Buffy feels just as lost as the viewer

+ HUSH.

+ SMG took a real delight in playing FAITH, and it SHOWED.

+ Season finale being the darkest and gloomiest in terms of atmosphere, symbolism and Fantasy, and it so happens to be a standout episode, but a good one nevertheless. You can almost feel like you’re dreaming yourself as most dream elements are present.

+ Spike was more present, which was nice

+ Harmony is always welcome.

  • Overall a weaker season with a weaker plot
  • SMG not delivering the best performance even though she did with what she had.
  • Side characters becoming useless, which makes you question, why don’t they just kill them off, bring back Faith and Angel and let’s have a supernatural fest?
  • Really uninteresting villain.
  • Really uninteresting romance between Buffy and Riley.
  • Uneven tone and lazy writing overall. It’s a pass for me.
SEASON 5:

+ The story expanding into a more plot-centered theme

+ SMG looks magnificent and delivers a much more memorable performance than previous seasons

+ You can almost feel the shift into adulthood as the plot gets more complex, character motivations get more confusing and life choices wider

+ Dawn is a nice addition and adds to Buffy’s Motivations to later save her. Contrary to what a lot of people think, I was perfectly able to understand her bond and love for her little sister even though she wasn’t really her sister. If you didn’t get the metaphor, you need to know more about family values.

+ The whole plot written as a Mystery that slowly unravels through the main villains: Glory / Ben.

+ More drama and tragedies, less immaturity, which perfectly suit the show’s then-atmosphere as they were all growing up.

+ Riley finally leaves. Finally. They were never meant to be together.

+ Spike starts to obsess over Buffy, which reaches its apex much later in the seasons.

+ A more dangerous and lethal villain, where you literally fear for Buffy and start to see her as a cheetah fighting a tiger.

+ Giles being the unwavering mentor and father figure to Buffy.

+ The best season finale of the entire television history. Yet another milestone and pillar to the show’s legacy.

+ Some standout episodes: Fool For Love, Crush, Intervention.



  • Main character being more and more useless.
  • Yet another Xander-special episode where it further proves he needs to leave or be killed off.
  • Anya being irritable the way Cordelia was (It seems Joss has a fetish for immature characters that aren’t to be taken seriously,) and her falling for Xander from Season 3 like a groupie, and submitting herself to him sexually, emotionally and romantically really prompts you to ask … How more unrealistic can this show get to prove how much of a loveable character Xander is?
  • SMG’s acting in the Body was…peculiar. It felt real, yes, but it didn’t stir any emotions in me beside a little bit of shock followed by dullness.
  • Even though the show’s turn was quite nice, you really are compelled to ask this question: Where are they going with this? Are we supposed to take it seriously or not? Vampires aren’t even an issue anymore, there are barely any fights with them and they don’t even feel like a threat compared to Glory, which puts the whole “Buffy THE VAMPIRE SLAYER” into question…
  • Too much focus on Xander and Anya’s relationship, whom I stand by my words, should have been killed. The Buffyverse is apparently not a world suited for humans as they become utterly useless.
  • Some boring episodes such as: Triangle, I was made to love you.
  • Buffy was a little mean with Spike at some points while he was being quite nice. Although she did question that later in intervention, it was quite off-character.


SEASON 6 :

+ Buffy deals with quiet depression until it’s sung out of her by force

+ SMG acts more adult and realistic and let go of most of her manners

+ The musical episode is one of the most immersive, entertaining and captivating episodes to air on TV, and the idea of singing your fears and inner thoughts adds layers and depths. A third milestone, (or forth if you consider HUSH.)

+ Buffy is finally nicer and receptive to Spike (at least the first episodes.)

+ The plot of Buffy being ripped out of heaven was an extremely effective emotional canon to not lose touch with the viewers’ attention after season 5 was considered a done deal

+ The season is darker and crueler towards its characters, making Buffy and Spike get together in a destructive relationship , killing off Tara, prompting Xander to dump Anya, and Willow to twist into the final villain. It gets less metaphorical and more soap-opera-ish, which I don’t complain about since I like the dark and black turn it took, with more drama and violence. I believe it suits Buffy the way it always should have. I feel like the show should have been more violent and scarier from the beginning as its mythology has substance and the characters as well. The metaphors shouldn’t be forced all the time.

+ The forced humor is finally dropped for a show that dares to take itself more seriously and even though the writing occasionally lacks fluidity, it’s still carried well by most of the actors who now have a better material to harness their acting skills such as SMG, james Marsters, Alyson Hannigan, Amber Benson and Emma Caulfied.

+ The side characters were finally given more relevance by being villains of their own story when they tried to be heroes, later on admitting they did what they did out of selfishness.

+ Better visuals and less corny monsters.

+ The attempted rape scene was intense but rewarding. Spike reached the apex of frustration and Buffy just didn’t know how to handle him anymore.



  • Buffy got too mean towards Spike and projected all of her hatred and frustration towards him even though he was literally her lapdog.
  • By this point, Xander has now gained a reputation of treating women poorly, and of course his horrible actions are inconsequential. He put the lives of Sunnydale in danger by invoking the musical demon and no one blames him afterwards. WORSE, the gang finds his action goofy and cute, HE KILLED PEOPLE.
  • A lot of episodes are lackluster and fail to capture the reality of our lives: Doublemeat palace. And that metaphor of people being killed by demons instead of just resigning was recycled from freshmen where the exact same canon was used to justify people leaving college so suddenly.
  • The gang went too soft on Dark Willow and Buffy being so weak and subjective towards her made me re-question her slayer ethics.
  • The fight in “Two to go” was way too inconsistent. On one hand Buffy can take multiple hits without getting tired, on the other, a simple push from Willow makes her faint on the ground.
  • The climax of the finale was lackluster. Willow being consoled by Xander and breaking down was corny and anti-climactic. It just felt like the writers had NO idea how fix the killing machine that was Willow without killing her off.
  • Yet another issue with Xander sticking his nose in Buffy’s private life and judging her on her love life with Spike. At this point, I want to ask him : WTF is your problem ? All these years and you (the writers) can’t bother to make his character develop a little? All we get from Xander is either being unfaithful, hypocritical, horrible towards women or judgmental. Why couldn’t you have made him more nurturing as he had no physical strength and was utterly useless, but you just stubbornly kept him around? Also, very classy of you to blurt out your friend was raped (which wasn’t a rape in itself, so another lie) in front of her little sister after she explicitly told you not to repeat it. He embodies toxic masculinity at its finest and is one of the worst characters of the show who on top of that get candy treatments from the writers. Why this unfair favoritism?
@darkspook Is that seriously the only issue you have ? ... Okay then.
Yes, I belive the dictionnary diffenrentiates between attempt and actual rape, which was what we saw in SEEING RED. Now, yes Xander Lied about it, PLUS he he didn't even know it was an attempted rape, he could have just said attacked or assaulted, that was an allegation Dawn never discussed with Buffy, so she thought her whole life Buffy was raped. And BUFFY DOES NOT confront him either. At this point, I lost hope for that dude to ever get blamed. There you go.
 

darkspook

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@darkspook Is that seriously the only issue you have ? ... Okay then.
Yes, I belive the dictionnary diffenrentiates between attempt and actual rape, which was what we saw in SEEING RED. Now, yes Xander Lied about it, PLUS he he didn't even know it was an attempted rape, he could have just said attacked or assaulted, that was an allegation Dawn never discussed with Buffy, so she thought her whole life Buffy was raped. And BUFFY DOES NOT confront him either. At this point, I lost hope for that dude to ever get blamed. There you go.
Oh I had more issues like your bashing of SMG weird faces but I didn't want to go into great detail.
Yes he jumped to conclusions but then given the evidence I don't blame him. Should he have told Dawn that? Probably not? Should Buffy have told him to take Dawn to her attemptive rapist's crypt just 2 episodes after he attemptive to rape Buffy? Probably not.
Did the group blame Willow for 'Something Blue'? did the group blame Giles for not informing them about Buffy's Cruciamentum and indeed going along with it? Did the group blame Spike for working for Adam in season 4? Face it folk never get blamed for anything.
 
Madido24
Madido24
Well you are free to express your issues with constructive criticism.
Buffy took Dawn to Spike because it was either that or she got the electric end of Willow’s spells. Spike would never hurt Dawn and I actually believe Buffy when she says that.

thrasherpix

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Xander seemed sympathetic toward Spuffy (at least more amused than judgmental) in both season 5 and 7. The only time I remember him getting all judgmental was when he saw her with Anya, at which point he was hurt and all reason flew out of the door. He was in the wrong, but I'm not going to pretend "that's all we got." Not when he was the only one to back Buffy in season 7 and promote the trigger theory (after voicing his reasonable doubts, but about everyone else, including Anya, remained unconvinced) and this is more normal under normal circumstances:


And Spike has shown himself willing to hurt others, even if only indirectly, even with the chip. Buffy taking her to him is BS. Xander spoke up in anger. Me, I wouldn't have to be angry to tell Dawn. If I was her age I'd hope someone would tell me in those circumstances.
 
Madido24
Madido24
No you shouldn’t because that’s someone’s private life lmao. Sympathetic? No , mocking, rather . If not, he was indifferent. But don’t say supportive or sympathetic..

Madido24

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Oh I had more issues like your bashing of SMG weird faces but I didn't want to go into great detail.
Yes he jumped to conclusions but then given the evidence I don't blame him. Should he have told Dawn that? Probably not? Should Buffy have told him to take Dawn to her attemptive rapist's crypt just 2 episodes after he attemptive to rape Buffy? Probably not.
Did the group blame Willow for 'Something Blue'? did the group blame Giles for not informing them about Buffy's Cruciamentum and indeed going along with it? Did the group blame Spike for working for Adam in season 4? Face it folk never get blamed for anything.
@darkspook sorry this platform has a incredibly weird comment system.
anywaaaay,
The other characters might get a pass every once in a while and that’s okay because it’s life BUT , the other characters aren’t as hypocritical as Xander , which makes even more infuriating when he acts like God’s gift and then gets a pass. Buffy blamed and scolded Willow multiple times actually even though it’s not her nature to blame people. Spike literally burned every once of them by the end of season 7 to my immense satisfaction. And I believe Spike got a pass because B has always been attracted to him, although I have to agree he did away with oddly a lot of things.
 
thrasherpix
thrasherpix
I actually take great satisfaction in watching Faith slap the Spike around in season 7.
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