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Buffy should not be re-made

burrunjor

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Ethan Reigns I agree with most of what you are saying but Jordan Peterson is not a racist - he is the subject of a smear campaign at the University of Toronto - I graduated from there and toxic identity politics has been going on there for some time.
Well not to get too off topic, but it was Jordan Peterson's video on race realism that he did with Stefan Molyneux that kind of put me off him. Sadly it's been taken down along with all of Molyneux's videos so I can't show it.

Maybe he's changed his position on it. I know he had a terrible time of it recently with his wife and his own illness, so I tend to be a bit easier on him these days. I've heard his non political work is supposed to be good, but his politics I find to be too tribal.

As for Molyneux he is a total lunatic, but as much as I disliked himI don't think his channel should have been deleted as that sets a bad precedent. (Also he was a good LOL cow.)

Hence why I said I'd love to see the reboot helmed by a woman, especially a woman of colour, if we are going to get a black Buffy. It wouldn't be a white man trying to pander and make themselves look good and make a spectacle of the social issues the show would be tackling. It would instead be a story told by someone who has lived that experience and understands all the nuances of these issues on a personal level. I was never trying to imply a woman of colour should just be handed the job as a diversity stunt, I just feel like we would get a better story from someone who knows what they're talking about. If a white man could tell the story of a black woman better than a black woman can obviously he should get the job, I just don't think that's realistic.
Well that's fair enough, sorry if you felt you were being got at, I was just making a point about what I feel are the biggest obstacles to a Buffy reboot. I think we are all ageed that the last thing we want is either a Supergirl or a Jodie era Who version of Buffy LOL.

There are obviously plenty of women who peddle identity politics too, I'm now not trying to put women on a pedastel either, but I think that men can be in the thrall of it ironically more only because a man will either be too scared to criticise it, or again as seen with so many producers and writers think it's a way of making himself look better than other men, hence Supergirl.

(Though this is obviously not to say that all men who support feminism are like that. I support equal rights for women, as do most decent men, but that's the point it's kind of like a Chris Rock thing of that's what you're supposed to do! Don't make a song and dance out of it like J J Abrams does.)

It's funny because Paul Cornell, a notorious SJW writer for DW went on about how female fandoms are always better than male led ones. I used to think he was doing his usual and talking down to women as hey women are people there's no reason a fandom with them should be better, but ironically after spending time in the Buffy fandom I see his point, but the problem is it's because of men like him who have to virtue signal and make out that they are the only decent men in fandom LOL.
 

thrasherpix

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My memory is too vague on this, but I think there was a mixed race (part Black) woman who was mentioned as one who was going to do the reboots. While I didn't know much about her, what little I did made me actually PREFER her to Joss (let Joss help out, especially with the dialog, and let her drive)...though another part was that she said it wasn't going to be a full reboot of Buffy, but rather focus on a different cast of characters with a different Slayer, and I also liked that. This had nothing to do with race or gender, other than since the Slayer was supposed to be a Black girl, I thought it would be best if she was in charge instead of Joss (who I think means well, sometimes, but a little too sheltered), both to make it more relevant as hoped, and also gird it against backlash.

Look at this message that the editor of DW magazine sent me.

Oh mate. DWM is a magazine about Doctor Who, made by people who love Doctor Who, for people who love Doctor Who. And that's not you. You're just an angry, women-hating, transphobic turd. If you were the last man alive, DWM wouldn't want YOU as a reader.
I just wanted to say I once subscribed to an online Asatru (Scandinavian paganism) zine (a "zine" is short for magazine, and was like a newsletter that people typically printed up rather than have mailed to them, if they wanted a paper copy) with decent articles and mostly good people. One issue posted an article that was blatantly racist and easy to see through, referred to us readers as "White People" (when that wasn't necessarily true) and obviously trying to prep us for a race war. (This was back around 2000, might've been 99.)

I was a kid and saw through it right away, and I might've responded, but others did so before I could, pointing out what I would've and so much more. But other than asking if the editor even read the articles before allowing them into the zine, all the criticism was against the arguments made (and the fallacies presented), not against the person himself, who clearly was a White supremacist, and likely a neo-nazi to boot (who considers even Christianity "too Jewish"). I'm not saying he was merely "politically incorrect" but it made it sound like we were all going to be killed for being White unless we struck first, and trying to outrage us with evil Blacks along with Jews & Christians.

In short, they treated him with more courtesy than he deserved, even if it was just a cold refutation of his arguments (each one directed against the statements, not the author--again, I only remember the editor being criticized for allowing it and it wasn't like they were trying to cancel the zine as it had a lot of good stuff with many shocked that this somehow found its way in, though they did hate how "articles like this give us all a bad reputation").

So it blows my mind that you were treated far worse over something so trivial...unfortunately, it also doesn't surprise me.
 

DeadlyDuo

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No one is "ganging up" on anybody. A civil discussion was had. Questions were asked, questions were answered. Clarification was sought, clarification was given. SJW was used in the correct context.
 

DeadlyDuo

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I did feel pretty ganged up on and uncomfortable actually but that's all in the past now :)
That was never intentional. :) I think the problem is we're currently living in a very volatile political climate that's only going to get worse as we head towards November. What shouldn't be an issue is being made into an issue by BLM/Antifa and they're pushing an agenda and poisonous ideology that is extremely divisive because they want to tear America apart. The democrats are endorsing this because they're deranged and hate Trump so much they're willing to let cities burn if they think it will get him out of office (and you have to question why they're so rattled by him) and as a result that is feeding the rioting because they're being allowed to do it. Race is being made into a massive issue (and BLM last reared its head similarly but not on this scale in 2016- another election year), and there seems to be an increasingly racist anti-white/anti-cop narrative going on.

Like I said, if we'd had this conversation last year or pre-May this year, it would've probably gone a lot differently. However because the wokies are throwing their weight around basically trying to bully people into silence and obedience, issues are being created that don't need to exist. This is basically what identity politics is. Buffy doesn't need to be remade, having a black Buffy is basically ticking a box but you can probably write a story so it's not obvious. However, with the BLM narrative going on, suddenly it becomes something else and not in a good way. You asked why cops were mentioned in reply to your "modern day demons for Buffy to deal with,", well according to the BLM narrative, cops are hunting down black people for being black because they're "racist". Therefore for a black Buffy, modern day "demons" would be cops.

It's a false narrative, and a dangerous one, but the more SJWs are pandered to, the more demanding and worse they get. Doctor Who has been wokefied which is why it was brought up and obviously Supergirl, and it's concerning that Buffy could go the same way. Even though it wouldn't be "our" Buffy per se, it would still be using the banner name and representing the character.

Hope that clears up any confusion. If not, just ask.
 

burrunjor

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The ganging up on this thread is so gross. Let someone have their opinion without piling on, for gods sake! 🙄 And again with the slurs (SJW)
Well I already apologised to Banshee if she/he felt they were being got at.

I don't think we were ganging up though. Sometimes it might look that way if your opinion is in the minority, but I don't think so. Again look at Gallifrey Base where they'd all gang up on you in a genuinely insulting way. The fact that this is seen as ganging up on the Buffy board shows how much better a place it is.
 
VisionGirl
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Ganging up is never ok

VisionGirl

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A few of you really did jump all over her/his post, accusing them of identity politics simply because they expressed a desire for a black Buffy and a black female director. And things have changed not because of the shift in our culture but because of the shift in this board.
 

Taake

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The ganging up on this thread is so gross. Let someone have their opinion without piling on, for gods sake! 🙄 And again with the slurs (SJW)
A few of you really did jump all over her/his post, accusing them of identity politics simply because they expressed a desire for a black Buffy and a black female director. And things have changed not because of the shift in our culture but because of the shift in this board.
This is a discussion board. Clarification was asked for and given. Discussion on the topic was had.

If this upsets you I invite you to reflect over how many times on this board you have ”piled on” and not let someone just ”have their opinion” when you disagreed with a post but someone else disagreed with it before you.

You have engaged in some ganging up yourself, so if there has been a shift on this board, start reflecting on your own behavior instead of trying to police or bully others.
 

Oromous

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I'm not really a fan of any form of reboot or remake in general, frankly speaking. The Disney remakes were some of my most disliked movies. It might be narrow-minded, but I'm a firm believer in creating new content to encourage creativity, not rehash old franchises to profit off a famous branded name - which is, let's be honest, the real intention of most reboots. Call me cynical, but that's just how show business works.

But putting my principles aside, I can also be quite practical when it comes to appreciating how show business works. It's still a business, so money needs to be made, and coming up with new content isn't easy, so sometimes the easy solution is just to reboot a branded name. These things just happen unfortunately, and if folks like us don't like the idea, then we could simply move on to the next IP. God knows there are dozens of original content still out there in the TV world.

On the other hand, as someone who was born quite late amidst the geek culture zeitgeist, 1990, when some of the best geek culture icons have long existed (Star Wars, Back to the Future, Terminator, Ghostbusters), I could also understand the need for younger generations to absorb new content that cater to their generations' culture and perspectives. God knows I liked many shows myself that were quite obvious copies of older and better shows, but they were essential to my childhood happiness, so no complaints there. It's not necessarily as simple as "just watch the old Buffy" because look how long it took me to even pick up the show, so who knows how it would be for those born decades later. Kids would need new shiny content that's released on Netflix, shows with lingo that speaks to the new generations so that they can more easily relate to them. As much as I and any Buffy fan would defend the timelessness of Buffy's messages and themes, I speak from experience of being shallow enough that I wouldn't pick up a show if it looks "old". I have never watched any drama series from the '80s because I wasn't born in the '80s (movies are easier to pick up because they only taken two hours, not an entire week to finish a season). I haven't seen Fresh Prince because I was barely a year old when it was released.

With the presence of streaming services like Netflix nowadays, who knows. Best I could hope for in my day was cable channels showing reruns. But a decade down, two decades down, I'm still cynical enough to believe that most kids wouldn't even know what a Buffy is, or heck, The Matrix.
 

DeadlyDuo

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I haven't seen Fresh Prince because I was barely a year old when it was released.
Fresh Prince is a good show, it's generally a funny show but you also get more serious moments like this:


and this


and this


amongst others.
 

Oromous

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Fresh Prince is a good show, it's generally a funny show but you also get more serious moments like this:


and this


and this


amongst others.
Yep, I knew, which is why I brought it up. I SO wanted to watch it so badly someday, but I couldn't find the time. After I'm done with Buffy, The X-Files and The Simpsons, Fresh Prince is most probably gonna be on my radar. That "Why didn't he love me, man?" line convinced me to watch it. Will Smith, beyond his more glamorous Hollywood roles as a generic good guy, had some really wonderful performances in history, including his underrated role in "I, Robot":

I know some folks criticize Will for being a typical action star with little acting chops, but the above clip proves this to be untrue. He acted the hell out of that scene. "That was somebody's baby - 11% is more than enough."

Also, the Carlton sellout scene was another great scene that further convinced me, especially the ending where Philip Banks remarked, "When are we going to stop doing this to each other?" The writing in this show was just so timely and thought-provoking.
 

DeadlyDuo

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Also, the Carlton sellout scene was another great scene that further convinced me, especially the ending where Philip Banks remarked, "When are we going to stop doing this to each other?" The writing in this show was just so timely and thought-provoking.
Also it shows a successful and wealthy black family who worked hard for what they had. This was from 30 years ago so the idea going round today that black people are "oppressed" is a false one. There are plenty of successful black millionaires.
 

Oromous

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Also it shows a successful and wealthy black family who worked hard for what they had. This was from 30 years ago so the idea going round today that black people are "oppressed" is a false one. There are plenty of successful black millionaires.
I also love this hard-hitting line by Carlton: "Being black isn't what I'm trying to be - it's what I AM." Damn, there's so much layer to that line, even in today's context in conversations involving racial identity.
 
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DeadlyDuo

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I also love this hard-hitting line by Carlton: "Being black isn't what I'm trying to be - it's what I AM." Damn, there's so much layer to that line, even in today's context in conversations involving racial identity.
Exactly, including Biden's now infamous "you ain't black".

This is one reason why I think the proposed Fresh Prince reboot might be a good thing so long as it keeps the more powerful moments, such as Carlton's "Being black isn't what I'm trying to be - it's what I am" line. Fresh Prince might be goofy at times, but when it did its serious moments, it did them extremely well without being too heavy handed. Will Smith even said one time that "everybody should have an Uncle Phil". Philip Banks is a fantastic black male role model, especially when absent fathers are a massive problem in the black community.
 

The Bronze

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Also it shows a successful and wealthy black family who worked hard for what they had. This was from 30 years ago so the idea going round today that black people are "oppressed" is a false one. There are plenty of successful black millionaires.
A fictional family was rich so everything was great then and now?

Fresh Prince was a comedy first and foremost but it did have social commentary and explored racial issues. Do you just tune out the bits that don't support your view that things are perfect and black people should shut up? They actually touched on black people facing police discrimination. Carlton and Will being pulled over for driving a nice car while black. Uncle Phil after Carlton muses they were just doing their job: "that's what I said the first time it happened to me".

Phil and Vivian had explicitly radical roots and were willing to help an old radical friend hide from the authorities. Even though he's now a lawyer / judge he defends his position by saying he can make changes from within. Acknowledging that changes need to be made because the system is broken.
 

DeadlyDuo

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A fictional family was rich so everything was great then and now?

Fresh Prince was a comedy first and foremost but it did have social commentary and explored racial issues. Do you just tune out the bits that don't support your view that things are perfect and black people should shut up? They actually touched on black people facing police discrimination. Carlton and Will being pulled over for driving a nice car while black. Uncle Phil after Carlton muses they were just doing their job: "that's what I said the first time it happened to me".

Phil and Vivian had explicitly radical roots and were willing to help an old radical friend hide from the authorities. Even though he's now a lawyer / judge he defends his position by saying he can make changes from within. Acknowledging that changes need to be made because the system is broken.
1. This show was from 30 years ago so racism issues were more of an issue back then whereas now society has moved on. HOWEVER, it also shows that racism was not and is not "systemic". Uncle Phil worked hard to get where he was and was rewarded for it by being successful, He didn't just expect to be handed stuff because he was black and slavery was a thing 200 years before so "reparations".

2. The show also showed how black people can be racist such as the episode where Carlton gets called a sell out and the episode where one of the aunts has a white boyfriend. Carlton scene above, white boyfriend scene below:


3, Does racism from individuals exist? Yes and it probably always will because some people are like that and you get those kind of people in all walks of life. Should a whole group be tarred with the same brush because of what certain individuals do? Absolutely not. "White privilege" is a racist notion that lumps all white people into one group just because of skin colour, likewise all cops shouldn't be blamed for the actions of some cops. Nobody should be blamed for the actions of someone else just because they share the same skin colour or wear the same uniform. You know exactly what I'm talking about.

4. Are there issues facing black people today? Yes. Is that issue "systemic racism"? No. Good life choices yield success, bad life choices yield hardship. For instance, if you choose to drop out of school with no qualifications then you will find it hard to get a job. No job, no income. No income, no money. If you want money you have to either rely on welfare or resort to crime. If you resort to crime, you are going to come into contact with the police. If you resist arrest, they will use force to detain you. If you point a weapon at a police officer, you will get shot. Absent fathers are another major issue in the black community. As explained by Larry Elder:


Black on black crime is another major issue within the black community and is the leading cause of death amongst black men.

The Fresh Prince of Bel Air shows a wealthy black family who became wealthy because of the father's hard work. They don't live in the "hood", they're not out committing crimes, they don't make out they're hard done by just because they're black, they put in hard work and get rewarded for it. The Banks family are a positive representation of black people. In the scene where Carlton is called a sell out, the gist is that he's not "black enough" because he comes from a wealthy background. His reply of "Being black isn't what I'm trying to be - it's what I am" is true, yet the whole situation begs the question "what does a black person have to be like in order to be considered black?" In an episode in the show, it's mentioned that Will used to carry his schoolbooks in a pizza box to hide the fact that he was studying and then one day he got jumped by a group of guys trying to steal his "pizza". Uncle's Phil's question of "why do we keep doing this to each other?" is a good question, why do certain factions of the black community disparage and ridicule the efforts of other black people trying to better their socio-economic situation through hard work?

This post is in danger of veering into political territory so I'll end it here. All I'd say is look at the difference between what white liberals believe about black people and what black people actually believe. Ami Horowitz has two good videos on youtube, one about what white liberals believe about black voters, the other about how black people view the police.
 
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Spanky

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So, hey, what do people think about a potential Buffy remake? I'm all for it. As long as it's Buffy and not a random vampire killing girl as the lead.
 

DeadlyDuo

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So, hey, what do people think about a potential Buffy remake? I'm all for it. As long as it's Buffy and not a random vampire killing girl as the lead.
They'll have the character be called Buffy for the brand recognition. I don't want it to be Buffy Summers though. My idea is that they should have Anne be the mother, that way you have new Buffy named after the original so you can use the brand name without it being the same Buffy so you can tell new stories.
 

Spanky

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They'll have the character be called Buffy for the brand recognition. I don't want it to be Buffy Summers though. My idea is that they should have Anne be the mother, that way you have new Buffy named after the original so you can use the brand name without it being the same Buffy so you can tell new stories.
Yeah, that's what I was talking about. Just some random Buffy. No, it needs to be Buffy Summers.

And the show can't be tied into or in any other way connected with the TV series. It needs to be a reboot, not some continuation.
 
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