• Thank you for visiting Buffy-Boards. You obviously have exceptional taste. We just want you to know that:
    1. You really should register so you can chat with us!
    2. Twelve thousand people can't be wrong.
    3. Buffy-Boards loves you.
    4. See 1 through 3.
    Come on, register already!

Cangel Inturrupted

Cordy_Chase

Tact is just not saying true stuff. I'll pass.
Joined
Jun 9, 2013
Messages
616
Age
32
Location
California
Sineya
A thought occurred to me. Could the trial that got Spike his soul have removed the curse from Angel's? Not that he really had a reason to consider the option by the time he learned of it (Cordy was gone, Buffy didn't trust him and had betrayed him and his sacrifice to give her a normal life by getting with his rival), but it's an intriguing thought that had the concept come up sooner, he and Cordelia could have had an easier time getting together.
 

Anyanka Bunny Slayer

Hail Hydra 💀
Joined
Dec 17, 2015
Messages
6,537
Black Thorn
I just can't see Angel and Cordy together...romantically. Friends, yes, but NEVER as a couple. Even the mere idea of this makes me shudder.

(And it's funny remembering how Cordy and Wes were initially attracted to each other in Buffy....especially considering their relationship in Angel)
 

Mr Trick

Scooby
Joined
Jan 9, 2015
Messages
12,865
Age
39
Location
London, UK
Whether you ship Cangel or not (I don't personally), like Buffy I think Angel has the sort of role/life that destines him to remain alone long term. If the behind the scenes stuff with Carpenter and Whedon hadn't have happened then chances are we would have seen the romance blossom. But I still don't think it would have lasted. Nina is probably the closest match for Angel outside Buffy, and maybe Darla.
 

PaulParmar1

Spuffy Forever
Joined
Oct 2, 2017
Messages
2,804
Age
21
Location
Nanaimo, British Columbia, Canada
Sineya
Cangel in my opinion would have been long lasting because they had some genuine feelings for each other. They got a great friendship before they went into a relationship and I adored it & I would've loved to see more of them !
One of my fav Buffyverse couples ever! I adore Cangel.
 

Priceless

Scooby
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
6,093
Location
UK
I've never understood why people don't think Cangel could work as a romantic relationship. They are freinds, but I see that as a good thing and not usually a pre-cursor to a romantic relationship not working. They share the same humour, the same goals in life. They have the same circle of friends and know each others history, so no surprises there. They can talk openly and honestly with each other, and have seemed physically attracted to each other, so I don't see a problem there. They are both mature and confident people. If we are just judging by character alone, I see no reason for this couple not to 'work'. I don't think it would be the love of the century, but it could be sweet and calming and loving.
 

PaulParmar1

Spuffy Forever
Joined
Oct 2, 2017
Messages
2,804
Age
21
Location
Nanaimo, British Columbia, Canada
Sineya
I've never understood why people don't think Cangel could work as a romantic relationship. They are freinds, but I see that as a good thing and not usually a pre-cursor to a romantic relationship not working. They share the same humour, the same goals in life. They have the same circle of friends and know each others history, so no surprises there. They can talk openly and honestly with each other, and have seemed physically attracted to each other, so I don't see a problem there. They are both mature and confident people. If we are just judging by character alone, I see no reason for this couple not to 'work'. I don't think it would be the love of the century, but it could be sweet and calming and loving.
Thank you @Priceless
I don't understand it either!
Unlike Bangel who started out their romance right away. Or Darla & him were only together when he was Angelus mostly & girls like Nina were more just filler relationships.
Cangel had the ability to last long term romantically & I adore them!
 

sosa lola

Scooby
Joined
Nov 26, 2007
Messages
4,797
Age
35
I don't enjoy Cangel because I don't like how Cordelia had to change drastically to be worthy of Angel. Can't Angel fall in love with sassy, badass, blunt, brown-haired, non-champion Cordelia?
 

Priceless

Scooby
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
6,093
Location
UK
I don't enjoy Cangel because I don't like how Cordelia had to change drastically to be worthy of Angel. Can't Angel fall in love with sassy, badass, blunt, brown-haired, non-champion Cordelia?
That's a fair point, but why can't Cordelia change? I feel that if she doesn't change, she'll be one of very few (if any) characters in the verse who isn't allowed any growth. She was working with a champion, she bought into that mission, so I think it's perfectly reasonable for her to change.
 

sosa lola

Scooby
Joined
Nov 26, 2007
Messages
4,797
Age
35
That's a fair point, but why can't Cordelia change? I feel that if she doesn't change, she'll be one of very few (if any) characters in the verse who isn't allowed any growth. She was working with a champion, she bought into that mission, so I think it's perfectly reasonable for her to change.
I don't mind changing, but when it came to Cordelia, she became a completely different person and I felt she lost her spark. She became too mature for my liking.
 

Priceless

Scooby
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
6,093
Location
UK
I don't mind changing, but when it came to Cordelia, she became a completely different person and I felt she lost her spark. She became too mature for my liking.
Also a fair point, she did become very mature. I always felt, compared to the scoobies, Cordy was always quite mature. The things she had to face on AtS could have forced her to grow up quickly, especially the death of Doyle and taking on the visions, these are things she'd never have to deal with before. She was also spending time with people who were far older then herself, who had focus and a mission to complete, which would encourage a quickening in her maturity levels. I felt that Cordy's growth (upto S4) was organic, though I accept it's a pretty subjective view.
 

Mrs Gordo

Bangel extremist...
Joined
Jul 11, 2017
Messages
4,022
Location
Texas
Black Thorn
I've never understood why people don't think Cangel could work as a romantic relationship. They are freinds, but I see that as a good thing and not usually a pre-cursor to a romantic relationship not working. They share the same humour, the same goals in life. They have the same circle of friends and know each others history, so no surprises there. They can talk openly and honestly with each other, and have seemed physically attracted to each other, so I don't see a problem there. They are both mature and confident people. If we are just judging by character alone, I see no reason for this couple not to 'work'. I don't think it would be the love of the century, but it could be sweet and calming and loving.
I'm not quite as eloquent as @Carrie Hopewell and her analysis on this and her posts throughout the boards are very thoughtful on the subject. But I will do my best to convey my thoughts on why I feel Cangel as a romance was doomed from the start.

First, I am not opposed to the good friends fall in love bit. But my main qualm with how this works with Angel is I don't think Cordelia is all that great a friend to him and I certainly don't think she has this great and deep understanding of him as the text of Season 3 would have us believe. First of all, Cordelia constantly makes fun of Angel for being morose and broody. She doesn't understand all of the guilt he feels over the acts committed by his demon and she never tries. She also makes fun of him a number of times regarding his curse, and the fact that he can't date or have sex for fear that it will bring out Angelus. Something that Angel surely does not have to be reminded of, considering he lived it. When he falls into his depression in Season 2 she makes no effort to help him out of it instead is concerned with how he hurt her feelings. Overall, I always got the impression that Cordelia wanted Angel to be someone he wasn't, more outgoing, big with the sharing, not so introverted. Rather than trying to understand him, she wanted him to change. She says as much in Season 2 "Untouched" - "Oh, no! I like my men less broody and more spendy."

Second, I thought the dynamic they had before they forced the Cangel hand was great (even if I don't think Cordy was this amazing best friend figure). I always saw the relationship between Cordelia and Angel more of a brother/sister relationship. Where Cordelia bugged the crap out of Angel but because they worked together and had a common mission Angel had developed an affectionate acceptance of her. It allows Cordelia to be the comedic relief to Angel's sometimes introverted and broody behavior. I think Cordy really added a great deal to Seasons 1/2. She was a good balance to Angel's more introverted personality for purposes of keeping the show lighter. Buffy needs her Xander. Angel needs his Cordy. It doesn't mean they need to get in bed with them. Why mess with a good thing?

As many people have pointed out for Cangel to work Angel had to become more goofy and less broody and Cordelia had to become less bitchy and more compassionate. These changes were not subtle, they were not natural, they were abrupt especially for long time fans of Angel, the character. And furthermore, they were temporary. By Season 4 when Cangel has been squashed Angel goes back to the Angel we know and love.

I do not object to Angel having relationships with women who are not Buffy but I don't feel Cordelia was a good fit for him. I don't agree that they had a similar sense of humor. His humor is dry and often went over her head. Her humor is goes from the ditsy (to which Angel rolls his eyes) to insulting people (to which Angel usually berates her for). Even well into Season 3 (when we are making our way into Saint!Cordy arc) I still see Cordelia as slightly self involved (when she sends Angel with Groo to get a supernatural condom - why the hell is she involving all of her co-workers in her desperate need to get laid?).

Finally, there was no spark between them before the time that the writers decided to TELL the audience that there was. All of the interactions between them pre-Season 3 showed how emphatically they were in the friend zone. See Cordelia trying to woo Angel in BTVS (where Angel is uninterested), see Parting Gift (a kiss that mirrored the Wes/Cordy kiss in BTVS Season 3), or in Blood Money when Anne asks "Girlfriend?" and Angel responds "God, no." It was not slow build to 'oh snap maybe there is more to this' there was nothing there and then abruptly "hey everyone look they like each other now." I would go further as to argue that even after they told us there was chemistry I saw none. I thought WitW was really uncomfortable to watch. Cordelia looked like she was eating Angel's face.

I always compare this to, for example, "Friends" with the Joey and Rachel arc. Now I HATED the Joey/Rachel deal but I thought they did a good job of taking a few episodes to build Joey's feelings and then turn it around and build Rachel's feelings and then have them meet somewhere in the middle. So there is an example of a ship that I didn't want to happen but I could see it organically happen in front of me. Not the case with Cangel.
 
Last edited:
Carrie Hopewell
Carrie Hopewell
Oh, you flatter me! You did great expressing yourself :P

Priceless

Scooby
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
6,093
Location
UK
@dcai0830 you and @Carrie Hopewell are far more eloquent then I'll ever be, but I'll try not to ramble :)

Everything you say is valid, but it is all perspective, and we just don't share the same view. I'm not a massive Cangel shipper by any means, and I don't think they'd be the most romantic couple in th world, but I do think they'd make an interesting couple. I actually see them as the maturest couple on either show, they are both uber confident in themselves, they don't second guess themselves, they trust themselves and each other.

I actually like how Cordy speaks to Angel. It's banter. She's trying to bring him out of his introspection, pull him into the world and make him smile. I don't think her digs come from a bad place, but rather they are encouraging him to loosen up, answer back, verbally spar and have some fun. She's trying to stop him sinking into depression and introversion.

I never thought of them as brother and sister. Cordelia fancied Angel the first moment she saw him; 'hello salty goodness'. IIRC she always had a physical attraction to him and was grabbing his hand or wanting to be close to him. Although I admit this was pretty one sided :)

The idea of 'why mess with a good thing' goes against the idea of good television. To keep your lead characters exactly the same, season after season, eventually kills the drama. Change is a good thing and Cangel was a change I quite liked, though it's obviously not everyone's cuppa tea :) I felt the changes between the characters in S3 were very organic and began by being more about building a family for Connor rather than about building a relationship. Once Cordy took on that 'mother' role, it was a short step to 'wife' (I'm using these terms broadly of course)

As for any chemistry between two characters, that's the most subjective thing of all. Some people look at them and see them setting the screen on fire, others not so much. I totally accept that if you don't see it, then the relationship will never truly work for you.
 
PaulParmar1
PaulParmar1
Great post Priceless

PaulParmar1

Spuffy Forever
Joined
Oct 2, 2017
Messages
2,804
Age
21
Location
Nanaimo, British Columbia, Canada
Sineya
I love Cangel so I gotta defend them

Cordelia's attraction to Angel is right away! Like why wouldn't you? Angel is hot!
It's really explored starting Angel Season 1.
She wants him to be less brooding for a reason and that reason is so she can learn more about him get closer to him.
When Doyle dies, Angel is the closest person that she trusts and can rely on . This starts a good basis for the relationship & they already have a great friendship. I really started shipping Cangel towards the end of the 2nd season. It's so clear how Angel values Cordelia and her companionship and how hard he fights to get her back from Pylea that it consumes him for those episodes & I love the line in the S2 finale where Angel says "you love me too right"
In S3 they get closer through training and everyone can see the clear attraction between them even Fred points it out. Cordelia sticks by Angel in "Billy" even though she doesn't have too. Then in Waiting In The Wings they have their best romantic moments ever and that kiss was everything. They did lose their chance due to bad writing by Joss in S4 but I love in You're Welcome that they got an ending

For fans who don't see Cangel as a romantic pairing . That's fine but I'll always adore them & I know that a lot of people like @Priceless @Cordy_Chase & @Cangel1987 @Tbpear @AnthonyCordova agree <3
 
Antho
Antho
you forget me :)

AnthonyCordova

Earth Invasion Taskforce Unlimited
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
Messages
1,978
Location
Denver, Colorado
Sineya
Yeah, I am not a hardcore shipper, but I like Cangel. I found the relationship more equal and honest than Bangel. I also like Bangel but it always seemed as if Angel loved Buffy more than Buffy loved him. But I like both ships, in a casual fan kind of way.
 

PaulParmar1

Spuffy Forever
Joined
Oct 2, 2017
Messages
2,804
Age
21
Location
Nanaimo, British Columbia, Canada
Sineya
Yeah, I am not a hardcore shipper, but I like Cangel. I found the relationship more equal and honest than Bangel. I also like Bangel but it always seemed as if Angel loved Buffy more than Buffy loved him. But I like both ships, in a casual fan kind of way.
I agree ! Angel seemed to love Cordelia just as much as Cordelia loved him .
 

Mrs Gordo

Bangel extremist...
Joined
Jul 11, 2017
Messages
4,022
Location
Texas
Black Thorn
but it is all perspective,
It is about perspective, you are right, and in my years in the fandom I have noticed that many (while not all mind you) of the people who feel very strongly about Cangel are very big fans of Cordelia more so than Angel (the character).
And that’s really the grandest “relationship” she ever had, so I get that.
 
Top Bottom