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Characters You're Too Harsh On vs Characters You're Too Easy On

fauxindigo

Scooby
Joined
Feb 6, 2017
Messages
646
Age
33
Location
New York
It would be no surprise that I am too easy on Connor too because well just adore him and all his anger/angst!

I am mostly easy on every character that I like but really Buffy and Angel can't do no wrong because I just find they do so much good that they get a pass when it comes to decisions. On the BB we can say that I am easy on Xander and Spike because I generally defend them in discussion and still love them after all they have done. Oh and Faith gets a pass too because well Eliza Dushku is amazing!!!!!!!

I am mostly hard on Dawn, Anya and Riley. With each re-watch I do find Riley better as a love interest and I don't hate him like I use too. As for Dawn and Anya well it's for very different reasons but mostly because they are very self-centered persons and I hate that. I know Dawn is very neglected but I just can't seem to emphatize with her. At least Anya is funny!
Hey Dawn has her funny moments too.

I always defend the likes of Riley & Kennedy whom most people seem to despise.

There are some characters I pretty much hate like Rona, Holtz, Justine & Eve but I think my hate is justified. I'm probably the most hard on Xander because he strongly irks me at times more than any of the other main characters but I still love him. He really does add a lot to the group dynamic. And he was the heart of the scoobies after all in the Primeval spell.
 
MarieVampSlayer
MarieVampSlayer
Don't worry no one like Eve and Rona!

Athene

Scooby
Joined
Apr 8, 2017
Messages
2,082
Age
20
Sineya
I'm too hard on Buffy, she's my second favourite character and I adore her but at the same time I'm easily pissed off by some of the things she does :) I should cut her more slack and not have a mini breakdown when she's anything less than perfect lol.

I'm probably too hard on Spike, but that's only because I'm sometimes triggered by what his fans say about him :oops:
I should try and separate the Spike that fans manifest and the one that's on screen.

Well, Faith's my girl so obviously I do tend to go easy on her, I'll admit that despite the crimes Faith commits, I can never be mad at her for them :rolleyes:
I should try and acknowledge that Faith isn't always who I see her as :)
 

GraceK

Grr Arrg
Joined
Nov 3, 2016
Messages
1,278
Age
33
I think I’m too easy on Connor and possibly too hard on Cordelia. I agree with most of the criticisms I fling at her and I’m not sorry for them (! Lol), but I can admit that I may be a little to harsh:)

I really love Connor and I see him through the eyes of a mother, so I am very biased and I just feel he is such a walking tragedy I can’t help but feel for him. It’s very hard for me to see all the hate he receives so I think I over compensate :)
 
MarieVampSlayer
MarieVampSlayer
I agree fellow Connor lover!
Taake
Taake
Haha, I get really Mama Bear about Connor. Clearly my soft spot!

sk

The Overlooked One
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
3,241
Location
Sweden
Sineya
Not sure... I'm probably too easy on most characters since I don't find much enjoyment in looking at their flaws.
I prefer to just enjoy them for what they are instead which kinda leads to me just accepting most stuff.

Connor might be an exception. Since I've trouble enjoying him.
He's just too stupid and clueless in a non funny way for me to get much enjoyment out of it.
Which I guess is kinda harsh.

/SK
 

DeepBlueJoy

Lion Faced Kitteh
Joined
May 5, 2014
Messages
816
Location
East of Trouble
Hey Dawn has her funny moments too.

I always defend the likes of Riley & Kennedy whom most people seem to despise.

There are some characters I pretty much hate like Rona, Holtz, Justine & Eve but I think my hate is justified. I'm probably the most hard on Xander because he strongly irks me at times more than any of the other main characters but I still love him. He really does add a lot to the group dynamic. And he was the heart of the scoobies after all in the Primeval spell.
I actually like Rona a lot. She had spunk. I think she was mostly scared, and her character was woefully underused for the hatred that she gets. Don't like Kennedy, though I don't think she's evil... I don't like her for Willow is mostly my issue. She's a brat, but she's not Justine (pitiful and nasty) or Holtz (can you let the grudges die and go on to your heavenly reward please?) Eve is a slime, and that's unfair to slime mold.
 

maddie

Wish me monsters.
Joined
Jan 19, 2018
Messages
35
Age
24
This is so hard because obviously, in my opinion, the characters I'm hard on deserve it.

By fandom standards, I'm extremely hard on Willow, Xander, and Wesley.
I'm adamantly hard on Spike but I struggle to come up with any reason why I shouldn't be.

I will literally never say anything bad about Buffy and I get extremely defensive if anyone does.
I think I'm the easiest on Faith. I am well aware of her wrongful actions but I dismiss them sometimes because I love her so much.
By fandom standards, I'm easy on Cordelia, especially in the BTVS-era where she gets a lot of flack. I just think her being mean and snobby in high school isn't really that important when you think of all the good that she did.
I'm very easy on Dawn, because of (1)the extreme hatred she gets, and (2) she literal child who had an extreme amount of trauma.
 
I don't have enough distance / self-awareness to answer this question. :p Every time I start to type something, my brain starts arguing with me.
SAME. I was just like "Yeah, I'm tough on them.. because they deserve it." I love the idea of this thread though!
 
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W

WillowFromBuffy

Guest
I remember really wanting to go easy on Connor. I immediately assumed he was an unpopular character, because of the Scrappy Doo syndrome, but he is 'Angel's handsome yet androgynous boy¨so I wanted to love him. Ultimately, I was unable to find a single redeeming quality in him - prior to his mindwipe - and when he killed that girl, despite the protest of soul-imprint-Darla, I gave up. I did not need much. Just one act of kindness and no knife murdering would have done it.

I find that I am often partial to characters that other people describe as bratty, snotty or arrogant, such as Cordelia, Harmony, Dawn and Kennedy. I watched Bring the Night recently, and I can't for the life of me understand why people are so put off by Kennedy. Really boring episode. Kennedy and Dru are like the only bright spots. I hate those two British girls with the over-accentuated accents. #JusticeForKennedy

I think I am the only person in the world who likes Kate Lockley from AtS. I was so surprised when she just vanished. I thought she was going to develop into a love interest. I saw much potential in her character.

I tend to go easy on Riley, because I was so horribly prejudiced against him when I first saw him. They brought in a dude bro backstreet boy to replace Angel!? He did so much better than expected, though. First impressions aren't necessarily that important.
Maybe I'm a bit too hard on Willow, but I'm not sure if that's true or if it's @WillowFromBuffy using some kind of spell to turn my mind around...
I am not sure if you meant this as a compliment, because you are being very measured, but the mere suggestion that I may have made you just a little bit more sympathetic to my pagan Queen made me feel all warm inside. Thank you :)
I'm too hard on Spike, which is partly due because I hate that character type and it seems to pop up in the media I consume a lot.
I also seem to find Spike or Spikeish characters everywhere. I made a bit of a stir yesterday in my 'Women's Prose Class' by arguing that the male villain of a proto-feminist novel was by far the best qualities. He was a lot like Spike, though much more of a rake.
 

Fool for Buffy

I'm just being a big nerd again
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
2,358
Age
19
Sineya
I definitely think I'm too hard on Willow because it's so easy to remember the bad moments and forget the countless reasons why she's fantastic. The same applies for Giles; it's easy to remember him from season 7 and get ticked when he was wonderful for most of 6 seasons.

I don't think I'm easy on any characters; I am certainly critical of them all. If I had to pick one, it would be Fred, but I think she deserves the love on here because she doesn't get enough. And anyway is it being easy on a character if you just think they're basically perfect in every way? Like I'm not choosing not to pick her apart, I just actually can't.
 

Jam

Pepper spray is just so passé
Joined
Oct 6, 2016
Messages
248
Location
Canada
Great thread idea!

Buffy is definitely the character I am easiest on; I can't help but mentally refute any criticisms made about her. It's not even that I identify with her, she's just very sympathetic in my eyes. Others characters I'm easy on would be Cordelia, for sure, and probably Faith. I'd say I'm easy on Dawn and Connor, except I don't feel that there's anything really to be harsh on them for... I guess I'm easy on Riley as well; I understand (some) of the criticisms against him, but he gets so much hate from fandom/viewers that I don't care enough to hate on him. He was mostly harmless.

As for characters I'm too harsh on, I suppose Spike but just like @maddie I struggle to reason why I shouldn't be! Other characters would be Willow, Xander, and Wesley (particularly during seasons 3 and 4).
 

Octavia

My arse is not pansy!
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
7,358
Location
Australia
Sineya
I was too harsh on Xander. The Pack and "kick his ass" stuck in my head for an early dislike. I skip The Zeppo most of the time. I hated him with Anya. He tamed her then dumped her... Actually I am completely justified in my harshness :D

I was way too easy on Spike and Joyce in the early years. I have grown to love Buffy more, and Joyce a whole lot less.

Im harsh on all of the Angel cast. They give me more reason to be.
 

DeepBlueJoy

Lion Faced Kitteh
Joined
May 5, 2014
Messages
816
Location
East of Trouble
I actually try to be fair. I like most of the characters, but I also think they all have real & even tragic flaws. How I depict their flaws depends on what I am writing, not any issues I have with the characters.

Of course, I have favourites - Buffy, Dru, Cordy - i love & enjoy writing them.

I also like writing Xander, who I am ambivalent about, but also relate to. I find him fascinating to explore, not as super!Xander of the amazing super-'nads that drag heavy on the ground and who vanquishes pathetics-barbie-buffy who is on her knees with worshipful slut face. I enjoy him as a real, flawed but courageous person who saves Buffy but also struggles to figure life out. (I do have major issues with some Xander fans).
 

The Bronze

Rogue Demon Hunter
Joined
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Messages
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Age
34
Location
Essex
Black Thorn
Not quite sure how you guys are managing to answer this. If you're aware you're being too hard/easy on a character wouldn't you just change accordingly? Seems like the sort of question you'd need an outside opinion on to say "hey you're being too hard/easy on them".
 
W

WillowFromBuffy

Guest
Not quite sure how you guys are managing to answer this. If you're aware you're being too hard/easy on a character wouldn't you just change accordingly? Seems like the sort of question you'd need an outside opinion on to say "hey you're being too hard/easy on them".
I get accused of partiality so often, that I have a pretty good idea who others believe I judge too easy and too hard :p
 

DeepBlueJoy

Lion Faced Kitteh
Joined
May 5, 2014
Messages
816
Location
East of Trouble
Not quite sure how you guys are managing to answer this. If you're aware you're being too hard/easy on a character wouldn't you just change accordingly? Seems like the sort of question you'd need an outside opinion on to say "hey you're being too hard/easy on them".
Not sure i agree. For one, over 3500 reviews means I've a bit of feedback about my treatment of the various characters. But... Even if I hadn't written hundreds of thousands of words or ever had a review, I would have an idea who i had negative or positive feelings about. We aren't fully objective, of course, but most of us can be honest - and everyone reading is aware that we are all giving our opinions, not empirical, peer-reviewed science!
 

Meliza

Scooby
Joined
Jul 1, 2017
Messages
651
Age
29
Location
Canada
I'm hardest on Spike. I'm usually good with ambiguity, truth in art, conflict, yet he makes me struggle with depiction is not condoning. I just feel he got off, not that going insane and being tormented by your past for forever is easy but its clear the author means for us to take Buffy's side of forgiveness, I don't want to be coaxed into forgiveness that is not what makes forgiveness mean what it does. Maybe I feel like being the devils advocate.

I am easy on Dawn because I love her, she is Buffy's other half, a love that is happy, healthy and forever.
 
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Ethan Reigns

Scooby
Joined
Oct 14, 2012
Messages
6,484
Location
Canada
Sineya
I believe my opinions are supportable for everyone but going by the conventional wisdom of the board, in order of the number of appearances:

Buffy: Her story is a rise and fall although I believe her resurrection is responsible for her gradual drift from being sociable until she is the OOC person of Season 7. I cut her some slack because of this.

Willow: I always thought of her as the computer geek of Season 1 but once she gets a taste of power, she becomes different. I am too easy on her because of her origins.

Xander: He is such an erratic character with more courage than even he gives himself credit for, that if it had not been for his harangue in Dead Man's Party I might be easy on him but he has never been consistent enough to judge. I believe I am too hard on him.

Giles: I may be too hard on him because of the cruciamentum. Once you blow the trust fuse, that's it.

Spike: I am too easy on him because he is the most compelling character in the series. He is the centre of attention whenever he is on screen and even things like the attempted rape seem to come from a mistaken notion that Buffy still loves him, she just had to feign dumping him because she had met up with Riley and his wife and realized that the Finns' relationship was not as abusive.

Anya: I regard her as total garbage. She has cheerfully murdered and maimed people for most of her 1120 years and even though she came up with good ideas in "The Gift", she got a hero's death that she did not deserve. But I don't think that is overly harsh.

Dawn: I love Dawn and even forgive her for throwing Buffy out of the house which I suppose is being too easy on her.

Angel: He is sort of a nobody who has to be prodded into helping Buffy when the Master temporarily killed her and although he becomes a love interest, he doesn't really seem that much more interesting than Riley. Angelus, however, is a top-notch character. I may be too hard on him.

Joyce: I am hard on her because she is a really terrible mother. Does that mean I am too hard on her? Maybe.

Cordelia: I see her as one of the mean girls and I could never stand them. She mellows a bit on Ats and does have some intelligence but I am hard on her because left to her own devices, what we had in Season 1 if Buffy is her normal state so I am hard on her

Tara: I never really got into the Tara worship on the boards. She was OK but no more than that, so I am hard on her.

Oz: I liked Oz but he really was not one of the movers and shakers of the story so maybe I am too easy on him.

Riley: Although he is decent to Buffy, he has a pathological need to take over, but he is not a conservative - we see him hanging a banner for the gay-lesbian alliance. I may be too hard on him, but he is still not right for Buffy.

I will cut this off because no one else appears more than 30 times. On to Ats!

Angel: He may be the centre of the story but he is not particularly interesting. I may be too hard on him.

Wesley: There has been a complete disconnect from BtVS and he becomes a badass, so maybe I am too easy on him.

Cordelia: She is the organizing force making Angel Investigations a real company but she gets a hatchet job that may make me too easy on her.

Gunn: For all the 91 out of 111 episodes he is in, he doesn't really shine, so I am too hard on him. I was surprised he was in so many episodes.

Lorne: I love Lorne even though I hate the pet names he invents for people, so maybe I am too easy on him.

Fred: I love her and I don't think I am hard or easy on her. And I love Illyria but I may be too easy on her - after all, she killed Angel and Spike in another time line.

Lilah: I cut her too much slack because I like the character and she never makes excuses for herself.

Connor: I find no redeeming characteristics in him, so maybe I am too hard on him.

Spike: I am way too easy on him but he is always enthralling on screen.

Lindsey: I may be too easy on him because he is always interesting.
 

Meliza

Scooby
Joined
Jul 1, 2017
Messages
651
Age
29
Location
Canada
@Ethan Reigns

Buffy: The show is through her eyes, so whether we agree or not we always understand where she is coming, agreeing is besides the point her mistakes are our mistakes, I like that S7 Buffy is the culmination of her experiences, she makes mistakes based on faulty assumptions we've all been under.

Willow: I think she could have done more to be less co-dependent with Buffy, we know she is cunning and strong, she hides behind self deprecation to a degree.

Xander: Can come across as the quintessential nice guy who wants a pat on the back for being a decent human being , is actually a genuinely nice guy. His biggest flaws
are his jealousy and possessiveness (which can sometimes be attractive) and underestimating himself.

Giles: "I may be too hard on him because of the cruciamentum" (I didn't realize anyone held a grudge like that, bravo) Whether he believes he is doing good, he has indeed been sending a innocent out to face her death every night (he works within the system Buffy is the opposite) He is the most down to earth guy which makes him exceptional in this world.

Spike: Correction, Buffy realized Riley and Sam's relationship was not abusive period. I don't find him compelling as a whining misogynistic sap, I suppose this could be damaged flip side of a male romantic. He has not earned Buffy's love, yet she gives it to him anyway, I find that makes her exceptional, not him.

Anya: Depends upon whether Vengeance Demon Anya has what we call a soul, I suppose she does, she makes amends at the end (not for everyone she killed neither has Spike or Angel) every moment counts when it comes to wasting your life, if you do one good, kind thing for someone at 80, if its the only thing you did, it does not make up for it but it counts. It is what you do next that matters and it always matters. How harsh the punishment should be in the after life we do not know but I do not imagine living with herself is not a punishment. That is why we give people compassion not because they deserve it but bc they need it. Buffy as slayer decided she was not ultimately a threat.

Dawn: Dawn is a regular girl (that is, she is a part of Buffy) she is nice and kind, can not ask for more then that and if anyone is hard on her, she is hard on herself as one is want to be.


Angel: I hope becomes human, he would make a wonderful man and father, and we wouldn't have to be with the holier then thou, moopy taskmaster anymore.

Joyce: Hmm, she is willfully disconnected from her daughter and in denial , can say the same for all adults in the universe though , she has flaws but because she loves and protects her daughter to the best of her flawed ability I would not say she is terrible.

Cordelia: She is fiercely loyal, her best trait, she also does not evolve much which might be the writers, shopping and light hearted is fine look at Lorne but she is still narrow minded and doesn't grow, which fittingly I guess is what narrow minded means.

Tara: Tara was perfect, as in perfectly normal. I like her and do not find that cloying because I tend to like straight men characters in a cast of superpowered and the super complicated, they remind us where the heart is.

Fred: Fred was perfect in a writers way, she was overly lovable in a way her characterization doesn't warrant. Her flaws of being passive and overly in her head are not shown to us as flaws, they are red herrings for how adorkable she is.

Oz: Oz is interesting, he has nothing but to cool for school lines but was never cloying like Jenny Calender. Maybe because we clearly saw his good heartedness (he never lied to us)

Riley: Funny you should mention it, besides his one liner, he was never characterized as here let me protect you guy, that is Angel! and Buffy was the antithesis of this self serving sexist lie. Forget the physicality, "I feel like you don't need me" is legitimate in a emotional context. He was hard on Buffy but in a way she could have evolved, admittedly he did hurt her, that is love, it is a risk but he was never and would never be abusive, cough, that is miles a head.

Wesley: Always does the right thing, after the wrong thing, that is what matters.

Gunn: Genuine Hero, gives to the people in his life without expectation, deserves a white picket retirement.

Lorne: Points for being morally ambiguous while having never killed someone? what is the word? amoral but in a fun way? ha ha.

Lilah: She never makes excuses for herself, takes responsibility, faces the music, is still a bad person, evil even, worse person then those who have done wrong and try for amends. (Hitler never personally killed anyone either)

Connor: Is tragic, a victim become a worse person because of it, his redeeming quality is he would rather not be him and accepts help when offered it (in a way he can't refuse but still) is grateful.

Lindsey: He is not interesting at all, tried to make him ambiguous without working, his character would make more sense with intentionality, what is his point? he has a great capacity for evil in his passiveness? ok, we all do but not taking responsibility still means you are responsible, we've been over this.
 
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