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Characters You're Too Harsh On vs Characters You're Too Easy On

Yogur

Townie
Joined
Dec 22, 2017
Messages
8
Age
26
In my case there are two characters I'm always hard on, mostly Spike and Ethan Rayne. Specially the first one. In fact, with any knowing of what could happen in next seasons, I remember to think "I'm not gonna stand this guy" when Spike first appeared. And the prophecy was true, I never could stand the character. He has a couple of gigs, but mostly I think of kicking him! Ethan Rayne, on the other way, it's more annoying than anything else.

I'm really easy on Willow and Sid. Althought I really disagree with Willow's mistakes, I still can't hate her as other characters and persons with similar mistakes,
maybe cause I think the character actually wanted to grow, instead of staying in the same level and expecting that blaming others will do effect. And for Sid...
I feel it as me, some kind of pervert, but not a bad person actually, just maybe he should try to shut upa bit, otherwise I find him a good guy even with his flaws.
 

SunnydaleGlitz

Potential
Joined
Sep 25, 2017
Messages
255
Location
New York
Sineya
I'm probably too hard on Xander. Sometimes there are things he says or does that just make me go yech! or roll my eyes. Then later I feel guilty because he has many wonderful qualities, but I tend to get the most easily annoyed with him.

I started off easy on Riley, then I went too hard on him. Partly becauseI I felt - similar to Xander - there was some kind of double standard moralising rhetoric that developed later.

I think I'm too easy on Buffy, mostly bc I think she deserves it? There I go!
 

Mr Trick

Scooby
Joined
Jan 9, 2015
Messages
13,317
Age
39
Location
London, UK
In my case there are two characters I'm always hard on, mostly Spike and Ethan Rayne. Specially the first one. In fact, with any knowing of what could happen in next seasons, I remember to think "I'm not gonna stand this guy" when Spike first appeared. And the prophecy was true, I never could stand the character. He has a couple of gigs, but mostly I think of kicking him! Ethan Rayne, on the other way, it's more annoying than anything else.

I'm really easy on Willow and Sid. Althought I really disagree with Willow's mistakes, I still can't hate her as other characters and persons with similar mistakes,
maybe cause I think the character actually wanted to grow, instead of staying in the same level and expecting that blaming others will do effect. And for Sid...
I feel it as me, some kind of pervert, but not a bad person actually, just maybe he should try to shut upa bit, otherwise I find him a good guy even with his flaws.
Oh, interesting! Never heard anyone critique Ethan before. I find him entertaining, and a credible villain. The chemistry with Giles is good too. If you find him annoying based on just the two or three episodes just think how much more annoying he would have been if he more episodes!;)

For me I'm probably too light on Spike. To me he is such a consistently entertaining and engaging character with some of the show's best dialogue and possibly that leads to me overlooking his flaws a little. And maybe I have a bit of an extreme reaction to Connor:eek: Mostly because of the way he derails the plot (Spin the Bottle for example). Generally, I just find him one of the most boring and annoying characters of either show.
 
Ethan Reigns
Ethan Reigns
A kindred soul.
HowiMetdaSlayer
HowiMetdaSlayer
to be fair Conner's pretty annoying

spikenbuffy

"Why can't I stay"
Joined
Jul 31, 2018
Messages
1,490
Age
25
Location
France
I'm too easy on :
- Buffy because she is my favorite character in the Buffyverse, some people find her whiny or selfish but I surely don't, when she makes mistakes or bad choices in S7 or the earlier seasons, I just don't really care.
- Spike is my second favorite character, he is evil and does some horrible acts but I just think that without his compelling and interesting character the Buffyverse would lost something and in the end even if he is really bad in S6 I can always appreciate him because for me he is unique.
- Wesley, I love his journey, I love how he has become such a badass in ATS even if he had to be in a bad place in the end of S3 due to take Connor away from Angel, plus he didn't apologize to Angel which I think he shoud have to but I can't seem to be very angry towards him and to dislike him for that.

I'm too hard :
Kennedy, I don't like her so much but she is surely not that bad but I just hate her because of some moments in "Touched"when I just want to see her get killed.
Xander, I like him but sometimes I find him annoying, hypocrite, useless (like he is just there), I don't like his betray towards Buffy about Angel but I love his friendship with Willow, he has good moments, when I see those good moments, I says to myself that he's not that bad & I should think that even if he is doesn't have powers, he is brave and doesn't leave his friends behind like in Graduation Day, School Hard or Prophecy Girl. He has good qualities.
 

thetopher

Member of the Church Of Faith
Joined
Dec 23, 2013
Messages
10,075
Location
The Moot, England
Sineya
It turns out maybe I'm too easy on Xander. It's not like I don't think he screws up and is annoying on occasion, he just gets attacked for the wrong things. Hate on his actions, not 'cause he says mean words.

Probably too easy on Willow because her character faults are very well realized and have a reasonably good pay-off, but she's not remotely held to account given the seriousness of her actions; hate-rampages, cold-blooded murder and attempted world-destroying should not be condoned so quickly.

I'm getting more critical of Cordelia. Just from the very start of S3 onward I dislike her jarring character progression. I dislike Cangel more and think it hurt her character. Also everything after 'Birthday' has that 'Jasmine's diddling with your personality' vibe to it as she slowly gets more saint-like. Her 'ascension' is laughable.
I still rejoice at her return in 'You're Welcome' though, CC does a lot with her swansong.
 

katmobile

Scooby
Joined
Jun 17, 2018
Messages
1,018
Age
48
I'm too easy on:

Willow - it's funny but I think Amy's speech in Killer In Me comes under the heading TV tropes calls villian has a point or jerkass has a point - 'the rest had to work twice is hard to be half as good but people don't care how hard you work they just care about sweet adorable Willow, they don't see how weak she is, she gave in to worse evil than I did worse than you imagine but people keep forgiving her'. There is of course because she was so adorable, smart and with this understated strength right from the start but even so had Spike or Xander pulled some of the crap she had then people would have dropped her out of best of lists they way some did with Spike. And I am no different.

Prob Spike although I will maintain not as much as many on here would claim. Yeah I guess I have a fictional type and he is so it.

I'm too hard on:

Xander - I think it's his dick moments tend to be memorable and he gets away with a lot of them in verse but the purpose of fandom is perspective and I've gained a lot on here in his favour I'm not in his corner but I understand him better and see his good points clearer through fandom.

Dawn - her fans have been massively helpful in helping me understand her, I have found her annoying, whiney and reckless on occasion. Her fans are mostly lovely though and advocate for brilliantly without doing down others and making me realise she's had to deal with a lot. I think I've noticed a lot of younger fans and younger siblings relate to her more I was/am neither and understood Buffy's need to protect her above Dawn's resentment at being over-protected.

Angel - it's funny so many of his fans hate Spike because of his fans because I have had to fight in my own mind to give Angel a fair shake because of his. I have been helped by Lani and POTN to see his virtues because they don't do down other chracters to big him up nor do they excuse his faults. Some of the flak I've had in other places has been personal too and even here there is so much erroneous assumption that is just plain annoying.
 

IdiotJed110

Townie
Joined
Nov 26, 2018
Messages
52
Age
20
In seasons four and five, I'm hard on Buffy for how she treats Spike and Anya, but in the last two seasons I never question anything she does, because of her depression and because all the others turn into horrible people.
I'm too easy on Wesley in season four, and way too hard on Gunn when they argue.
Since I know she matures on Angel, I'm really easy on high school Cordy.
I hate everything Willow does in season six, which I feel is justified, but some may say I'm too hard on her.
I'm really easy on Xander, I try to find justification for everything he does, except in Entropy, when I hate him with my entire being, and when he cheats on Cordelia.
 

AnthonyCordova

Earth Invasion Taskforce Unlimited
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
Messages
2,034
Location
Denver, Colorado
Sineya
I've eased up on Xander over time. I think the turn for me was realizing that he really is essentially a tragic character, of the everyman variety. Often annoying, sometimes pathetic, but as everyman types sometimes do, he can, on many occasions, redeem himself, and in the process redeem the condition of the ordinary person too. But here I am patronizing him, and I'm not sure if I should feel comfortable with that, so I think Xander definitely qualifies as a character I'm probably too hard on. I can't say I relate much with him though.

I'm too easy on Buffy I think. I'm often not willing to acknowledge her faults, especially in the later seasons when she loses her way (s7 Empty Places comes to mind). If I am being objective, I also have to admit that she brings a lot of problems down on herself unnecesarily. She often gets the benefit of the doubt from me anyway because she usually is the one shouldering the lion's share of the burden, and doesn't complain much in the process. Over the years on BB I have been forced to acknowledge her deficiencies in character and vision though. The archetype she represents certainly comes packaged with flaws.
 
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Bluebird

two by two, hands of blue
Joined
May 17, 2008
Messages
6,309
Black Thorn
I was never really hate-filled when it comes to characters. I probably disliked Riley and Kennedy a lot on first viewing, but they get a lot of fan hate that goes to the extreme so I can see the good in them now.

Spike I liked a lot on first viewing, then I grew bored of him. Fans bleating his quotes or painting him as an innocent rubbed me the wrong way, but when I actually watch the show he doesn't bother me at all. That's the storyline they were going with, and I'm on board at that time. Although I believe writing quality in general declined in the later seasons and Spike was a victim of that.

A think a lot of times our judgment is clouded by fan screaming, and whether reacting or in agreement, that is wrong, because usually context is ignored. The context of storytelling in that moment.
 
K
katmobile
I disagree about the writing decline but about fans poisoning the well yeah totally

CHK DeWilSon

A BAngel fan. Always.
Joined
Apr 8, 2017
Messages
114
Age
49
Location
London
This could get long....🤔


The Females.

Buffy is the girl I'm most likely to always be easy on. I love the character and even if I don't agree with her choices (and it's OBVIOUS which particular choice I'm talking about) or her treatment of others at times, she's still someone I will ultimately understand and root for. She can and does do wrong occasionally but I still want the best for her.
Dawn is another I'm probably easier on than others but then again, I've never dislike her or her introduction into show from series 5 onwards. I like her even when she is being is being bratty! I emphasis with her especially when she found out the truth about herself. I just don't have any negative feelings towards her.
Joyce is someone that I felt I was probably too easy on in regards to Buffy and her relationship with Angel. I now have a big problem with her going to Angel behind Buffy's back to get him to end their relationship. It's funny how Angel gets accused of taking Buffy's choice away from her in deciding to end their relationship without discussing it with her when Joyce did the same thing by not talking to Buffy herself about her concerns. Buffy was a adult by then and it was her choice rightly or wrongly and yes it is understandable that her mother would be worried for Buffy but it wasn't Joyce's choice to make.
Willow, I like more with Oz so preferred her in the early seasons but I don't think I judge her too harsh or too easy. I just didn't end up caring that much about her at that time when the series finished but re-watching it now, I'm good with her. I get why she reacted that way to Tara dying. I guess I will see if I feel strongly either way when I get to the end of the last series.
Tara, I know I judge too harshly but am actually liking her on this recent re-watch. She is a nice character and I've really like some of her scenes. In particular ones with Buffy where she offers her advice and support.
Cordy, Faith and Anya, I don't feel I've judge them too harshly or too easy. When I've been annoyed with them it's because they've done something wrong but I've never strongly hated them continuously. That feeling only goes to ONE buffyverse character 😉
Fred, I like and adore and even her pushing Angel and Cordy to get together or when she gets together with Gunn doesn't make me judge her too harshly. Illyria, I judge very harshly because she took Fred away and she was inhabiting Fred's body for years.


The Males.

Angel would be like Buffy in that I could be seen to be easy on him when compare to any others but I don't feel I am. He's frustrated me with some of his decisions. I'm uncomfortable with his physical reactions to Buffy whether she does it first. And yes she's the slayer but that isn't a good enough reason for me for him to response in the way he does by grabbing her or hitting back. And leaving those lawyers to Darla and Dru, while I can see his reasoning, it was still wrong. However any negativity is far out weighted by the good he tries to do. And he will continue to fight the good fight without their being a reward in the shape of a human life or to get the girl!
Angelus, I've always correctly judge harshly IMO. He's a sadistic and manipulative vampire with NO conscious who I hope doesn't ever return for Angel's sake.
Riley, as the new boyfriend of Buffy, I judge harshly on first watch but since then, I've grown to like him. He loved Buffy a lot and just wanted her to let him in and no hold back which she did do because of the scars from her relationship with Angel. I understand that their actual relationship may be a trigger for some where they view it as abusive but on my recent re-watch, I just don't see it that way. He never tried to control her life in the way of taking her away from her friends. He wanted to get more involved but Buffy never let him in her slaying life to support her in the way that Willow and Xander did with Tara and Anya respectively. So while it's always interesting to read other points of view about Riley and Buffy and their relationship, it's not a view I have ever felt especially with watching it again.
Xander has annoyed me greatly with his petty jealous towards Angel which he has never let go of and it annoys me even more knowing how his relationship with another soul vampire evolves especially with their history. But I don't dislike him. He's a character I feel was vital for the scoobies and his friendship with both Willow and Buffy. So I like him enough but he's not a character I'm strongly connect to.
Giles, I adore and this man can do no wrong. Which of course he has however I can let it go as it was usually when he believe it was for the greater good. (Like drugging Buffy). So he's a character I'm probably a little easier on but I love his father/daughter relationship with Buffy.
Wesley, I feel I've only been easy on is the way that he was in his feelings for Fred and how he dealt with them. I didn't have a problem with how he acted with Fred upon falling for her especially with Gunn being involve although I can see why others would feel he was being too intense around her. Love his character's arc and think in terms of such a change in character, his is the best one written and perform.
Gunn, I definitely judge too harshly when he got together with Fred and was annoyed with mainly him until they finish as I loved Fred even when she got involved with Gunn. But I did like Gunn in the last series.
Connor, is Angel's son so I can not have anything but love for the character even when he put his father in the underwater casket or impregnate Cordy. HE'S ANGEL'S SON, and if Angel can forgive him so can I so I'll admit to being too easy on him even when he deliberately hurts his father.
Oz is just so great even though he did the unthinkable and cheat on Willow. So I'm easy on him cause it's Oz and he when back to get back together with Willow.
Spike as a soulless vampire I judge harshly but don't believe I am wrong in doing so. There is too many numerous deeds that he did that I don't have the time to go through. While he loved Buffy even soulless, it was a twisted and unhealthy love and I don't really give him any dues for whatever good he did when he got chipped and fell for Buffy. His reasons for getting a soul are selfish because it was about how he could get to keep the girl and not listen to her not wanting to be with him. Yes he was good to Dawn and Joyce but that was only because of their connection to Buffy. He is an evil being even if he can love and anything he did was to serve some purpose for himself in getting what he wants despite what the other person really feels which is why at the end of Lover's Walk he decided he was going to MAKE Drusilla be with him again.
Spike as a souled vampire is still somewhat like soulless Spike. His lack of shame towards Robin in how he killed his mother and got her coat as a souvenir just about sums up my feelings about him whether he has a soul or not. Him hitting Faith because she was talking over him is of no surprise despite him being souled as he tends to think with his fists on a number of occasions. And her being a slayer with supernatural powers is NO excuse for him acting that way because he wouldn't have dare to do that if Dawn had been talking down to him.
As for him and Buffy, I don't judge it harshly because I still to this day believe that it shouldn't have happened and wouldn't have if Buffy hadn't die and came back so traumatised and feeling wrong and so damage inside that she felt that he was the only something she could turn to.
And while I totally get that many loved their 'relationship' and saw amazing chemistry between SMG and JM, I never saw it, felt it or believe in it so I don't need to be told about their wonderful chemistry because it's just not there for me.


The Villains

I don't feel I'm harsh in my judgement on any of them. I don't like them because they are villains who usually want to take over the world so I just want them gone and cheer when they are defeated.
There have been a few interesting villains like The Mayor and Drusilla who have amused me. Darla's arc became better on ATS so I feel I've judge her fairly. The Master was ok.
As for the rest, Adam was boring The Three were adequate. Dark Willow was good but I'm glad only lasted for that period. And The First Evil and Caleb were fine.
Glory was absolutely annoying and irrates my skin. Plus hated that she could beat Buffy up. I could never judge Glory harshly because I can't stand her for good reason.

So I guess when it comes down to it, I can see that it could be perceived that I'm harsh on characters I like as oppose to characters I really dislike but I'm alright with that. It may look like I'm being bias but for me if I feel the good in the character is there more than the bad, then I don't feel the need to judge them so harshly for their negative traits and actions.
 
Joined
Feb 23, 2019
Messages
726
Black Thorn
I am very easy on basically all of the main cast except Angel and Anya.
I'm harsh with Spike, despite him being one of my favourite characters, because he is basically just a murderous sociopath for the majority of the show and there isn't anyway to defend a lot of those actions. However I'm quite easy on him when he gets his soul and he wasn't left alone long enough to actually deal with the guilt before he had to be back in the fight so I do understand a lot of the choices he made.
 

Name the Stars

You can't see the stars, love. That's the ceiling.
Joined
Apr 15, 2019
Messages
433
Age
20
Location
Spain
Black Thorn
I'm way too hard on Xander. I am very quick to criticize him, when he really isn't as awful as I make him out to be. Same with Riley. He's not that terrible, just incredibly bland.

I'm too easy on Willow because I care about her character so much. She does some really bad things, and I still love her. Same with Spike.
 
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
I'd argue Riley is more than just bland - arguably he's a cheater.

Joan the Vampire Slayer

Carpe Spuffy!
Joined
Jun 5, 2008
Messages
5,582
Age
34
Location
WA State
I admit freely to being pretty harsh on Willow, and to easy on Spike.

It's no surprise to anyone who knows me that, at her best, I'm neutral towards Willow, and at her worst, I can't stand her. I think she's arrogant, unlikeable and selfish.

Spike is my favorite character, so he holds a special place in my heart, and I believe him to be the most interesting character in the 'verse - but that being said, I am the first to admit he's made a lot of bad calls and is highly flawed.
 

r2dh2

Never go for the kill when you can go for the pain
Joined
Apr 12, 2019
Messages
269
I’m too hard on:
  1. Xander pre-season 7. I don't like the way he treats Anya sometimes.
  2. Giles season 7.
  3. Buffy in the episodes of S5 and S6 where she treats Spike horribly, even after she realizes that he really loves her.
  4. Kennedy, but mostly because I dislike her acting more than her attitude.
  5. Ronda, I cannot stand her.
  6. Angel post season 3. He just cannot let go of Buffy (“He goes all Dawson when she has another boyfriend”). I wanna tell him: “Let her be! You decided to leave.”
  7. Jonathan and I'm not sure why, he's the one of the trio that shows more regret for his actions.
I’m too easy on:
  1. Willow, who will always be the sweet nerdy girl in my mind, and I even forgive her for trying to destroy the world.
  2. I see Anya as completely lost in the human world. Although she annoys me sometimes.
  3. I have a very soft spot for Spike. I simply love him, he’s sweet, loyal, bad-ass, sarcastic, loving, a little bit mean thrown into the mix… He’s bitch love! I mean what’s not to love of him? (Please do not refer to the AR scene or the Buffybot, that’s for another thread).
  4. Andrew is another nerdy guy that I find adorable in S7. I just think that he's very misguided during S6 and early S7.
  5. Faith, I think that she’s had a very tough life. I think that she’s a bitch many times, but I see a very jaded person. And I love her self-confidence.
  6. Joyce, I think that it must be very difficult being a single mother.
  7. Robin, he lost his mother very young and even though he tried to kill my beloved Spike, I think of him as being a decent guy.
 
RachM
RachM
Angel *does* let go of Buffy. He never infringes on her life after Season 3, he never tries to win her back and, yes, he gets a bit jealous of Riley but I think that's understandable. Also, Buffy continues to love and want Angel post-Se3.
S
Stephan
@RachM, I don't think this is a ship war, it's her perception and her explanation as to why she feels this way. There are other threads to discuss the merits (or lack of) of such opinion. Aren't there?
KatrinaL
KatrinaL
Lose the Angel's and Jonathan's ones, and we'll be problems free (jk) ;). Can't hep it, I'm a softy for Andrew and Jonathan, they look like lost puppies sometimes. Well, Andrew did kill Jonathan... mmmh.
K
katmobile
I'm easy on Jonathan I've been that guy but I pretty much cosign on the rest.
thetopher
thetopher
Wow, disagree with almost all of these lol. :/

RachM

I'm busy. I'm brooding.
Joined
Nov 8, 2017
Messages
1,275
Location
Australia
Buffy in the episodes of S5 and S6 where she treats Spike horribly, even after she realizes that he really loves her.
Oh, you mean when he's stalking her and sniffing/stealing her underwear or when he's chaining her to a wall and threatening to sic Drusilla on her or when he's building a creepy-ass robot version of her which is completely subservient to him or when he's emotionally abusing her and isolating her from her friends or when he's sexually assaulting her or trying to rape her in her own home? Yeah, Buffy's the one who's horrible :rolleyes:
 
S
Stephan
"Which characters in the Buffyverse are you too hard on? Which characters do you give a free pass to? I'm curious to see everyone's bias (judgement-free)."
Joined
Feb 23, 2019
Messages
726
Black Thorn
I've almost finished watching season 6 of Buffy for the second time and I've now really eased up on Riley, and I mean a lot. I think I just didn't like him because other people didn't. I've eased up slightly on Angel and Anya (up until she becomes a demon again).
However, I'm more harsh on Willow and Giles now. I was also harsh about soulless Spike before and he remains one of my favourite characters but I am now way harsher on him.
 

RachM

I'm busy. I'm brooding.
Joined
Nov 8, 2017
Messages
1,275
Location
Australia
Stephan @RachM, I don't think this is a ship war, it's her perception and her explanation as to why she feels this way. There are other threads to discuss the merits (or lack of) of such opinion. Aren't there?

I wasn't turning it into a ship war, I was merely commenting on a statement I felt was incorrect.
 

Stephan

It's a great show. But no need to get all riled up
Joined
Apr 12, 2019
Messages
64
Stephan @RachM, I don't think this is a ship war, it's her perception and her explanation as to why she feels this way. There are other threads to discuss the merits (or lack of) of such opinion. Aren't there?

I wasn't turning it into a ship war, I was merely commenting on a statement I felt was incorrect.
Wasn't using the following statement how you started this thread?

"Which characters in the Buffyverse are you too hard on? Which characters do you give a free pass to? I'm curious to see everyone's bias (judgement-free)."
 
RachM
RachM
Yes, but I wrote that months ago (to the point where I forgot I wrote it). Nehoo, why don't you back off, I'm allowed to express my opinion if I disagree with someone, which was what I was doing.

RachM

I'm busy. I'm brooding.
Joined
Nov 8, 2017
Messages
1,275
Location
Australia
Stephan "Which characters in the Buffyverse are you too hard on? Which characters do you give a free pass to? I'm curious to see everyone's bias (judgement-free)."

Okay, you made your point -twice - ease off, okay? Again, this is a Forum where discussions and reactions are supposed to be expressed, which was all I was doing. If you want to debate or refute my statement, feel free.
 

Stephan

It's a great show. But no need to get all riled up
Joined
Apr 12, 2019
Messages
64
@RachM fine, take it easy. No judgments here. Peace out.

Edit: I made a couple of observations, I duplicated one. I'm sorry for that. And I'm sorry you forgot your initial statement. Feel free to report the behavior if you feel that it's inappropriate. I'm judgement free.
 
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RachM
RachM
You came after me three times then tell me to take it easy? Lovely.
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