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Characters You're Too Harsh On vs Characters You're Too Easy On

RachM

I'm busy. I'm brooding.
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@RachM Edit: I made a couple of observations, I duplicated one. I'm sorry for that. And I'm sorry you forgot your initial statement. Feel free to report the behavior if you feel that it's inappropriate. I'm judgement free.
Yes, judgement-free people always make snarky comments about starting ship wars :rolleyes:

-EDIT- @Stephan I never claimed to be judgement-free, apparently when I first made this thread (over a year ago) I said I would be judgment-free in this thread. But I'm very judgmental when it comes to Spuffy, which is why I usually don't respond to Spike/Spuffy posts, it brings out a nasty side to me.

Also, sorry Mods, I got way too personal here, I'm backing out. My bad * Don't comment on Spuffy-related posts, Rachel! *
 
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S
Stephan
Just the same way "judgement-free" people judge others when they express an opinion that they don't like ;).

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
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I'm probably too harsh on Xander, but only because his bad moments stick in my mind more than his good ones. His good moments tend to be more subtle.

Riley can go either way. I think his behaviour towards Buffy in Season 5 is problematic (and he showed shades of it in Season 4 episodes such as The Yoko Factor) but people disagree with me on what extent his problematic behaviour reaches.

Kennedy I'm the right amount of harsh on. I hater her character.

@RachM I find some of Riley's behaviour borders on controlling eg deciding what Buffy "needs", warning Angel and Spike to stay away from Buffy thus trying to prevent Buffy from seeing them, repeatedly grabbing Buffy's arm when she makes clear she doesn't like it, giving Buffy the ultimatum aka if she doesn't give him a reason to stay then it's her fault if he leaves, etc.

I find the ultimatum extremely problematic. I'm glad Buffy missed the helicopter otherwise she could've found herself trapped in a relationship with Riley that she didn't particularly want to be in, but she couldn't leave because she would've cost him his chance to re-join the military so she owes him.
 
RachM
RachM
Haha, I'm tend to think that I'm too harsh on Riley but sometimes I find myself thinking "*Am* I too harsh? Maybe everyone else is too lenient"? Because some of his behaviour can be pretty gross.

RachM

I'm busy. I'm brooding.
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@RachMI find the ultimatum extremely problematic. I'm glad Buffy missed the helicopter otherwise she could've found herself trapped in a relationship with Riley that she didn't particularly want to be in, but she couldn't leave because she would've cost him his chance to re-join the military so she owes him.
Agreed. The ultimatum was awful, especially since Riley basically blamed all the problems in the relationship on Buffy and made her feel like there was something wrong with her. Watching someone as strong as Buffy run after Riley is so hard to take.
 

sosa lola

Scooby
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I'm too easy on Xander, especially the early seasons, also Willow, Riley and Joyce as I feel those four get the most hate nowadays. I'm also easy on Angel and Connor, I see both sides and sympathize a great deal with both of them.

I'll admit that I find myself becoming too hard on Buffy and Anya. It's mostly a reaction to being often exposed to popular arguments like "Buffy's always right" and "Anya is too good for Xander" which I feel are both not true, and the characters began to rub me the wrong way.
This was my opinion when this thread started and it doesn't seem like it changed much.

I'm still too easy on Xander, Willow, Riley, Dawn, Joyce, Angel and Connor. I feel they all get a lot of undeserved criticism.

I don't feel like I'm too hard on Buffy anymore.

But I'm getting too hard on Anya lately because I feel every negative thing she does gets excused because she's "autistic" or "being left at the altar" or "vengeance demon". I get that she's the comic relief, but Andrew is also a comic relief and fans don't cut him no slack.
 
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Altoz

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I'm too hard on Dawn. I never liked the character and her addition to the core cast was unconvincing. And probably also Andrew- as an out and proud gay man, it was perpetually irritating to me that his character didn't have the guts to come out during the series.
I'm too soft on Oz, basically because the character is complex and appealing. And Willow, partly because I can identify with her descent into darkness and how Tara's death motivated the emergence of Darkwillow. And Lindsay, probably because of his shared class background with me.
 

katmobile

Scooby
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I don't think I'm too easy on any character. I like many characters who are dislike by the fandom such as Riley and Dawn and Andrew !

But I'm definitely too hard on Spike but just here on Internet. When I'm watching Buffy I really love him, I have my understanding of the character, I know what I love about him, what I hate on him, what are his good/bad actions. I just think that sometimes I'm too hard on him because fandom have a tendancy to idolize him and find excuse to absolutely EVERY bad actions he did !
Get how you feel re: Spike because I feel the same about Angel. I don't dislike Angel but the fans of his who sanctify him and his relationship with Buffy while admitted the flaws in neither annoy me.

Re: justification - it's not about justification it's about understanding and then forgiveness. You can think something someone is doing is dead wrong or a bit wrong but understand why they're doing it. We get why Willow skins Warren, we get why Angel tries to smoother Wes and locks the lawyers in with Darla and Dru - but that doesn't mean they're right or justified.

I can also understand why Spike and Faith end up punching each other in the face without thinking either was a victim of the other or saying that either was blameless - I think that is neither justifying or saying either deserved it. I love both characters and they both have issues that neither handled well on that occasion but both were motivated partly by loyalty towards other people. It's nuance.

I'm going to indentity with some characters more than others but that's why we listen to gain an alternative perspective even if we don't agree with it.

If Wood did not hate Spike, that would have been insane.
It is more the dividing buffy & Giles at the end of the world that was a bit crazy. The real tragedy and betrayal was Giles' behavior.
Note: I am NOT justifying Wood's trying to kill half the super powered people at the most treacherous time possible. But Spike killed his mommy. No one gets over that.
Again understanding and sympathy for a character doesn't make them right. Also in some ways the worst ways Wood is toxic is the ways he isn't even aware of in the argument where he uses it to get revenge on Buffy despite giving her the very advice that causes people to turn on her.
 
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DeadlyDuo

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Also in some ways the worst ways Wood is toxic is the ways he isn't even aware of in the argument where he uses it to get revenge on Buffy despite giving her the very advice that causes people to turn on her.
Wood is very aware that he's stabbing Buffy in the back. I think he deliberately gave her the bad advice, though didn't realise how badly things would go, just to make her leadership skills look questionable.
 

vampmogs

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I'm probably too hard on Wesley. Not for his behaviour in Season 3-4 because I think he doesn't get enough criticism but I know that I irrationally dislike his behaviour in "Origins" despite him having every reason to distrust Angel after he learns of the memory wipe.

I'm probably too easy on Buffy. She's my favourite character and I relate to her so much that it's hard for me to step out of her POV sometimes. For instance, I'm probably not hard on her enough for her deceit regarding Angel's return in early Season 3.
 

Cheese Slices

A Bidet of Evil
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I've given this thread some thought during my rewatch, and as of now I'd say:

- Too easy on : Buffy. I love her to death and I think she's had it so rough during all these years that I can't help but feel very protective of her and tend to gloss over her flaws, especially with regards to her friendship with Willow and Xander.

- Too hard on : Willow, mostly because I'm a lot like her (especially the not so good parts) and I tend to judge myself more harshly than I judge other people.
 

katmobile

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Wood is very aware that he's stabbing Buffy in the back. I think he deliberately gave her the bad advice, though didn't realise how badly things would go, just to make her leadership skills look questionable.
Never underestimate the power of our subconscious to be horrible.
 

TriBel

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Wood is very aware that he's stabbing Buffy in the back. I think he deliberately gave her the bad advice, though didn't realise how badly things would go, just to make her leadership skills look questionable.
Wood's a homage to the real life Robin Wood - a renowned film scholar who wrote on Hitchcock and American Horror film (Whedon meet him when Wood gave a talk at Wesleyian University). It partly explains Wood's fixation on demons and his mother. Much of what he does is unconscious but sometimes it's intentional. He's very difficult to read and I think it's because he's developed in line with Hitchcock's characters (who're often ambivalent). I don't like him but I think, with Hitchcock in mind, he's written very well.
 

Priceless

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I'm too easy on Buffy, who can do no wrong in my eyes and I will defend her every action. I'm pretty easy going on Spike too, my defence is 'he has no soul, so . . . '

I'm probably too hard on Xander and Wesley, both of who are just so entitled all the time. Wesley getting between Fred and Gunn just annoys me so much, and stealing Connor is unforgivable.
 

katmobile

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I'm too easy on Buffy, who can do no wrong in my eyes and I will defend her every action. I'm pretty easy going on Spike too, my defence is 'he has no soul, so . . . '

I'm probably too hard on Xander and Wesley, both of who are just so entitled all the time. Wesley getting between Fred and Gunn just annoys me so much, and stealing Connor is unforgivable.
I'm hard on Xander and have been hard on Dawn. I'd say I'm easy on Wes but I'm ok at taking criticism of him. I do think some of it is people are too easy on Angel though. I really feel for Wes in season three - POTN's take on Wes as a tragic character in His How to be Strong episode summary is great though and I think spot on.
 

Priceless

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I'm hard on Xander and have been hard on Dawn. I'd say I'm easy on Wes but I'm ok at taking criticism of him. I do think some of it is people are too easy on Angel though. I really feel for Wes in season three - POTN's take on Wes as a tragic character in His How to be Strong episode summary is great though and I think spot on.
Why do you feel you've been hard on Dawn? I adore Dawn, but I do understand how some people could dislike her. I have nothing but sympathy for her.

I like to think I give Angel a fair ride. I have issues with him, but nothing that makes me hate him. He can be manipulative, he's too old for teen-Buffy, he's a with-holder and he falls too easily under the spell of anyone with any power. But he's also trying really hard, and he gets massive points for that. I can't dislike the guy.

Has POTN done a video about how tragic Cordelia's story is? I just cannot raise any sympathy at all for Wesley, and he's probably my least favourite main character throughout the whole Buffyverse, though I know he's loved by most
 

Give Us A Kiss

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Sineya
I'm not too easy on anyone, not even Spike...

I can be a bit harsh on Buffy sometimes, but that's because she is the slayer so I expect a bit more from her and to lead by example.
 

katmobile

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Why do you feel you've been hard on Dawn? I adore Dawn, but I do understand how some people could dislike her. I have nothing but sympathy for her.

I like to think I give Angel a fair ride. I have issues with him, but nothing that makes me hate him. He can be manipulative, he's too old for teen-Buffy, he's a with-holder and he falls too easily under the spell of anyone with any power. But he's also trying really hard, and he gets massive points for that. I can't dislike the guy.

Has POTN done a video about how tragic Cordelia's story is? I just cannot raise any sympathy at all for Wesley, and he's probably my least favourite main character throughout the whole Buffyverse, though I know he's loved by most
I can see why people wouldn't like Wes. It's odd I usually hate sanctimous characters but it's his vulnerability, insecurity and obvious desire to do the right thing and fierce loyality to Angel that make me sympathetic to him. He's my head love character of the Buffyverse. I can accept he's deeply flawed, I can understand the hate , I can bear to see him suffer, fail and die but he's such a multi-faceted and well drawn character (also Alexis is such a great actor) with a brilliant arc and I love he keeps trying to do the right thing and he dies in the service of those ideals rather than as a villian.
I just found Dawn annoying at first but her fans are such sweet people they've managed to put me in her shoes without attacking other characters so I can see things from her perspective more.
 

garfan

Townie
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I'm probably to easy on Willow and to hard on Tara but I think the message they were used for in season 6 sucks big time and was done poorly even if it wasn't abad one
 

Anyanka Bunny Slayer

I am sister to the Fates 💀
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I'm too easy on Willow, basically because my teenage self totally identifies with her. Insecure and quietly vengeful.

Also too easy on Harmony because I just LOVE her. She can do anything and I'd still root for her. She's hilarious, likes unicorns, and will always betray you. 😂

Too hard on Riley because he just seems clueless. Like, durrr, I'm big, strong, and Buffy doesn't love me. Durrr, I'm gonna give her an ultimatum, durrr. I'm gonna let a vamp suck my blood because I don't feel needed, durrrrrr.
 
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The characters in the Buffyverse feel so human and they are flawed in such a realsitic, wonderful way that I can't help but empathise and cut them some slack more often than not. I particularly tend to go a bit easier on the characters who work on their issues and try to change. Which is quite a few of them now that I think about it. AtS is pretty much about that and BtVS has Buffy growing and learning, and also plenty of redemption (-beginning) arcs surrounding her. Someone who doesn't quite fit the profile is Xander and indeed I am slightly harder on him than on the rest.
 
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