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Chosen: If We'd Had A Two Hour Long Season Finale...

Discussion in 'Sunnydale Cemetery' started by thetopher, Apr 26, 2017.

  1. thetopher

    thetopher Member of the Church Of Faith

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    Sineya
    Like Joss originally wanted, what would you have liked to have seen in it?

    It still starts the same-(Buffy and Angel vs. Caleb)- and ends the same (Sunnydale goes crunch)- so what little things/character interactions/moments/plot bits would you have loved to have filmed for posterity?
     
  2. Last Watcher

    Last Watcher Tweed Icon

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    Sineya
    The Fuffy kiss just before the battle......(Faith: Just for luck! )

    Andrew getting thrown into the crater after one whiney comment too many.....

    Xander getting the chance to actually acknowledge Anya's death....maybe even mourn a bit!

    Dawn showing how much swordplay she had learned from watching Buffy train.....as she lays down some serious Slice-n-dice on the Bringers.

    Tara turning up in Willow's dream telling her she believes in her & her ability to do the Slayer activation spell without having to get her roots touched up afterwards....

    Less Spike......and more core four!
     
    Taake: Haha, of course you'd throw in a Fuffy kiss :D
    Zenseem: Some fuffy action is always welcomed
    Puppet: Agree with most of it, I just can't agree to less Spike, ever x)
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  3. Mylie

    Mylie Scooby

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    -Angel interacting with the gang and not just Buffy.
    -More from the core 4 than the tiny scene we got.
    -A make up between Buffy/Giles, an actual scene where they talk about it, not just a smile.
     
  4. Priceless

    Priceless I didn't forget y'know

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    I like the one hour Chosen, but I'd never say no to more Buffy.

    - No cookie dough speech, it's juvenile. Buffy always turns into a girl when she's with Angel, and she is way past that version of herself by now. (Same with Angel, he gets childish around Buffy, she even comments 'are you twelve', and Spike is nearly as bad)
    - Buffy would tell Angel she's in love with Spike. There would just be more Spuffy in general (Yes I am like UKIP, I've got one issue and I'm sticking with it :D)
    - When the First appears to Buffy I'd have preferred it to be in the form of Joyce or previous Big Bads, I think that would have more impact then appearing as Buffy, and I would have liked more dialogue between them, to give more insight into the First
    - More Giles and Buffy interaction, I'd missed that
    - Less Wood/Faith - no-one actually believed this was going anywhere so why waste time on it
    - Andrew should have died instead of Anya.
     
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  5. white avenger

    white avenger white avenger

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    1) There should have been more preparation for the battle, and that would include assembling a better assortment of weapons. Even if Buffy and Giles didn't have an arsenal of real swords and such, there had to be hardware and sporting goods stores in Sunnydale. Axes and machetes would have been available. Xander could have improvised some sort of flame thrower, utilizing tools at his construction sight, and even simple Molotov Cocktails, which anyone could make, would have been useful.

    2) The three sites, manned by Giles & Wood, Andrew & Anya, and Xander & Dawn should have been set up better, with some sort of fortifications, if nothing more than piles of furniture and lockers to hide behind, and more effective armament. (that flame thrower and those Molotov Cocktails, if nothing else) Standing off a that many Bringers and ubervamps in open hallways, armed with nothing but swords was suicidal

    3) What the heck was Angel thinking, showing up at an apocalypse alone, with nothing but an amulet that he, himself, admitted might not e trustworthy? The last time, in fact the ONLY time, that he actually helped Buffy fight a battle like this, they had the whole graduating class of Sunnydale High there for help, and a whole lot of explosives.

    And the amulet was his. He should have been the one wearing it, and the one who turned into a crispy critter saving the world. It might at least partially pay for everything that Angelus did during Season 2.

    4) After the battle. The missed opportunities are innumerable, not the least of which would have been someone pouring a bucketful of water over Giles' head just after him reminding everyone that there was another hellmouth in Cleveland.

    5) And the final scene, the camera pans over the destruction that had been Sunnydale, across the faces of the survivors, dirty, bruised, but grinning in victory, then focuses on a close up of Buffy and Spike, standing in the shadow of the bus. Her arms are up around his neck, his hands are around her waist, and she whispers, "Wanna help me build an army?" They kiss. For about a minute.

    Fade to black.

    If Joss had only consulted me...
     
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  6. Priceless

    Priceless I didn't forget y'know

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    Spike had to wear the amulet, it was the culmination of his story, his redemption. But I love your version so much, it would have been perfect :)
     
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  7. Taake

    Taake Bella Staff Member

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    Black Thorn
    One major change: Buffy would get to save the world one last time. If that means she wears the dumb trinket, so be it. But having Angel deliver a trinket, then having Spike wear it... we are miles away from the "me" moment of season 2. Buffy should at least have gotten to play a pivotal part in the final battle of Sunnydale. Now it's all about what her boyfriends bring to the table and awkwardly making a "gift" out of what has been portrayed for seven years as a terrible burden.

    I'm fine with Anya's sudden death, but I would have liked to see Xander grieve me.
    Andrew could've died in the fight.
    Angel and Spike can leave together, how, why or whatfor Spike would go with him at this time, I literally don't care. Or they could've stayed and fought both of them. And brought Connor. None of this lame "second front" stuff.
    A good, touchy feely scene with Buffy and Giles.
    Dawn gets to do more.
    A core four moment at the very end.

    Haha, we all see such different things. This his exactly why I hate that "culmination of HIS story, HIS redemption", but I suppose that is the richness that is BtVS. It resonates with people in so many different ways!
     
  8. Priceless

    Priceless I didn't forget y'know

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    That's what makes the show great, that we all see different things and that gives us so much to discuss :)

    That part of the story was the culmination of Spikes story, just as Willow becoming a 'goddess' is the culmination of Willow's story, Buffy sharing her power and empowering the potentials is the culmination of her story, Faith being totally accepted as part of the team and her acceptance of it is the culmination of her story, Giles sees his children grow up which is the culmination of his story as father figure. That's why Chosen really works for me, everyone's story is finalised in a way I appreciated. You could even argue that the death of Anya signifies Xander, metaphoricaly, being made free from his attraction to demons, but that might be a bit of a stretch even for me :)
     
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  9. Bluebird

    Bluebird two by two, hands of blue

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    Black Thorn
    More Xander, Giles, and Willow, and less of Angel and Spike. It feels like Spike the Vampire Layer by this point, and Buffy and the core four just throw back and forth exposition or plot dialogue in a robotic manner. Scooby gang have more chemistry in season 1 than in season 7.

    I didn't like the Angel vs Spike stuff, in regards to the 'who will win Buffy' attitude. I think it's regression, and utterly pandering to shippers. Buffy has surely got more to say for itself than endless discussions on who should date who, or who her one true love is. I understand fandoms are weird, but I dunno, I just think season 7 sacrificed some integrity there.
     
  10. Mr. Pole

    Mr. Pole My lines are mostly filler

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    Black Thorn
    Where did he say this? Or more to the point when? I remember him saying at the time that he did not want two-hour finale as they were always pretentious (or some such wankery). Just wondering when he flip-flopped again.
     
  11. Guy

    Guy Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    Spike's amulet did NOT save the day. The ubervamps were defeated before it started working - as Spike said: "you've beat them back, it's for me to do the clean-up". So Buffy DID save the world in the finale, with the empowerment spell. It wasn't Spike's victory, it was Buffy's.

    And having the slayer powers was never a burden by itself. Like Buffy and Faith said:

    "It's a good thing we're hot chicks with superpowers."
    "Takes the edge off."
    "Comforting."

    The burden was the slayer duty, and Buffy didn't force anyone to take that duty.
     
  12. Taake

    Taake Bella Staff Member

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    Black Thorn
    They did not beat all those uber vamps, they stalled them for a little while so the trinket could save the day.

    Slayer powers was never a burden? Wow, I don't think we watched the same show at all.
     
  13. Last Watcher

    Last Watcher Tweed Icon

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    Sineya
    I totally agree. The whole point of having Giles and the others guarding all the exits was to make sure None of the Bringers or UberVamps escaped into the outside world. Buffy & her team had not killed all the UberVamps, so if they had retreated to the school bus & bailed without Spikes little trinket wiping out all the others & closing the hellmouth all of it would have been for nothing.......The Hellmouth would still have been open & loads of the Vamps still at large.....

    The trinket saved the day.....everything else was a holding mission to make sure none of the enemy escaped!
     
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  14. Priceless

    Priceless I didn't forget y'know

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    Buffy never saved the world by herself. In S2 she couldn't have killed Angelus without her truce with Spike (and didn't kill Angelus, she killed Angel) In S3 I think it was Giles that actually blew up the mayor, in S4 it was a combination of the scoobies within Buffy's body that defeated Adam. In S5 Buffy closed the portal, but it was Giles, by killing Ben, that actually destroyed Glory and in S6 Xander saved with world and in S7 Spike wore an amulet.

    Buffy is my hero, she plans the battles and makes the decisions, she is the leader but it is the troops that all take their turn at the world saving. Of course they couldn't do it without Buffy, but still . . .
     
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  15. Athene

    Athene Scooby

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    I think that Spike's 'death' was stupid and useless seeing as he comes back to life...it was just another way to make Spike seem heroic. It didn't work for me but maybe it worked for you :D
     
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  16. BuffyBot22

    BuffyBot22 Potential

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    I would have wanted to see Xander and everyone else for that matter grieve Anya.
    Put more emphasis on what Willow did instead of what Spike did.
    Who wore the amulet is tricky- we have already had Buffy die twice, so I think it's just fine that she wasn't the one to sacrifice herself for the world again. Angel clearly can't because he has his own show. So I guess that really does just leave Spike- and it's kind of nice since after all the hell caused and how terrible he had treated Buffy and the scoobies over the years- it was fitting for him to sacrifice himself. The mistake was bringing him back in AtS...
    I wanted a Giles and Buffy moment. And I wanted more scooby interaction.
    Maybe even some more Faith, just less Wood.
     
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  17. Last Watcher

    Last Watcher Tweed Icon

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    Sineya
    Ooooeeer!
    Not gonna happen with Faith around! ;)

    Sorry, couldn't resist that.......I'll get my coat!
     
  18. thetopher

    thetopher Member of the Church Of Faith

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    Sineya
    Sorry, if I didn't make it clear; the question is What would you like to ADD to the overall episode, not 'change what you don't like'. ;)

    So no fan-wanking 'Spike and Buffy happy ending whilst Angel gets toasted' pettiness , no 'this character dies instead of that character' wishing. We're talking EXTRA cool bits here people, not fanon.

    He said it in an interview about the network not letting him have what he wanted. There are -apparently- tons of little scenes that he wanted to show at the end but didn't get a chance. I know of only two of them and I'll post them here in a bit.
     
    Priceless: Can I request a whole extra hour of Spuffy? Thanks
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  19. Guy

    Guy Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    Uh, no. The tide of the battle was turned BEFORE the amulet activated. There was a moment where it looked like they were gonna lose, but then Buffy rose up and sent 5 ubervamps flying, and all the slayers started kicking ass together. And this happened before Spike's amulet activated. Hence - "You've beat them back, it's for me to do the clean-up".

    But why would they retreat to the buses at all if the trinket wouldn't activate? They were WINNING. If the trinket wasn't there, then they'd just kill all the ubervamps by themselves. It would cost more lives, but it would still be done.

    *Sigh* I often get that feeling...

    No, Slayer powers were never a burden. Remember 'Helpless'? When Buffy lost her powers, she immediately wanted them back. The only burden was the Slayer duty - the fact that Buffy needed to spend her entire life fighting evil, because she was the only slayer in the world. And that's the great thing about the empowerment spell - because there are MANY slayers now, then none of them is FORCED to fight. If a slayer wants to live a normal life, she now CAN do it. And if a slayer wants to fight for the world, then that's great too. That's why 'Chosen' ends the way it does - Dawn asks "What are we gonna do now?", and Buffy smiles as she realizes that she finally has a choice.
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 27, 2017 ---
    Back on topic:

    I would add Cordelia. She deserved to be in the final battle in Sunnydale. And if her inclusion in 'Chosen' means that the Cordy-Jasmine arc gets changed, then all the better.
     
  20. thetopher

    thetopher Member of the Church Of Faith

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    Sineya
    @Guy: Please try and not turn this into yet another intense debate thread? Let's try and keep this thread FUN and self-indulgent, rather than getting bogged down in back-and-forth opinion. :)

    @Priceless: Sure, as long as the ending remains the same. Spike burns to a crisp at the end of the episode. Go nuts. ;)
     
    Priceless: Thank you ;-)
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