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Christian symbols and vampires

Discussion in 'Season 1' started by bespangeled, Jul 22, 2014.

  1. fresley93

    fresley93 Potential

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    Dang, you're right, I thought the fish was used to communicate with other Christians. The first would draw half, and if another was around, they would complete the fish.

    So, it would have to be the later church that brought crosses into the mix.
     
  2. Xin Rong

    Xin Rong Killed by Dissertation

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    The cross has a much older significance, according to a documentary I saw, it is not in fact a Christian symbol, originally.

    Did anyone notice how in the latest issue of Season 10, Giles says it's sacred symbols, not just crosses, that can repel vampires?
     
    bespangeled: Thanks!
  3. bespangeled

    bespangeled Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    Not a comic reader but this is fantastic. Now we know. I would assume then that Willow didn't know or was covering all her bases when she put the cross on her wall under a curtain!
     
  4. fresley93

    fresley93 Potential

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    Okay then, we need to make a list, that word 'sacred' could encompass quite a few things. The big religions are easiest to identify, but what about smaller, more regional ones? And what about non religious objects, could any of them fall into the list.

    Is it wrong that don't really consider the comics canon, but I am willing to include Much Ado About Nothing as a sort of part of the Buffyverse, at least where Fred and Wesley are concerned.
     
  5. bespangeled

    bespangeled Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    Maybe belief is part of it - not necessarily immediate belief. A virus of belief instilled in the sacred objects. This way any sacred object would work to some degree.
     
  6. fresley93

    fresley93 Potential

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    I feel sorry for those poor vampires, this makes their unlife much more difficult.
     
  7. bespangeled

    bespangeled Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    Actually I think it's a source of power - very Darwinian. You survive and your demon can breed. :)
     
  8. Xin Rong

    Xin Rong Killed by Dissertation

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    Maybe we'll get some more closure with the comics, but I think it comes down to belief: if you believe a symbol is holy and purely good then it can be used to repel demons.
     
  9. bespangeled

    bespangeled Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    In order to save atheist and agnostics, I would put the power of belief in the object - in other words, if it has been handled with belief that can be enough.
     
  10. JCoatsworth

    JCoatsworth UP THE IRONS!

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    Black Thorn
    I have thought about this a lot in the past, and I think it's because the idea vampires - blood sucking immortal creatures of the night - originated in Christian countries. And like so often with religious people, their god is the real god and everybody else is wrong and will burn in hell.
    And I guess the idea that Christianity is the vampires' enemy just survived until today.
    I definitely agree that it's weird that vampires don't just migrate to Muslim countries, for example. But maybe they want to piss off the Christian god by killing his people right in front of his face or something. Maybe they don't want to hide, because that would be a kind of defeat.
     
  11. bespangeled

    bespangeled Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    Vampires date back to the Mesopotamian. In ancient Greece vampires came in through the window, drank the blood and their intestines would fill so people kept thorny vines around their windows.

    My younger daughter did a 15 page report on vampire legends and myths from around the world. It was fascinating. There are all sorts of strange ways of keeping them away and escaping them. Put a dead animal in front of a door and the vamp will have to count every hair before they can go through the door.

    The causes of vampiric generation were many and varied in original folklore. In Slavic and Chinese traditions, any corpse that was jumped over by an animal, particularly a dog or a cat, was feared to become one of the undead.[22] A body with a wound that had not been treated with boiling water was also at risk. In Russian folklore, vampires were said to have once been witches or people who had rebelled against the Russian Orthodox Church while they were alive.[23] Wikipedia
     
    cryptwarmer likes this.
  12. fresley93

    fresley93 Potential

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    I was always under the impression that vampires were a worldwide presence. Now, when I first watched the show. Vampires are said fundamentally evil, and being a Christian, it made sense that they would recoil from symbol's of what is fundamentally good.

    However, now, after watching Buffy and Angel, I see vampires more as predators than anything else, it's just their nature. Which can be curbed, as seen at Wolfram & Hart, in that case the symbol's still make sense, as an expression of pure humanity, just like the invitation rule, however, that isn't Christian, it's more civilization, so going back to the humanity angle, where the divine spark lives, vampires, without a human soul cannot enter freely.
     
  13. Wesley Pryce

    Wesley Pryce Angel Investigations

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    Black Thorn
    Well sorry to the atheist and agnostics,but if someone can cause "magic" energy to come out of their hand and knock the crap out of someone with it then I'm pretty sure that means theres some kind of god somewhere lol. Don't take this too seriously,just haivng fun :p
     
    bespangeled: I just want to keep them alive. ;)
  14. JCoatsworth

    JCoatsworth UP THE IRONS!

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    Black Thorn
    That's interesting. I was mainly thinking of the vampires in popular culture, like Bram Stoker's Dracula, for example, and didn't think about all the different ancient versions. There probably are many myths and legends, just like there are ancient myths about what the sun is or how earth came into existence.

    Well, it's fiction. So it's definitely fine by me if there's a god in a fictional world. At least in that fictional world there seems to be some sort of proof for a higher being that has something to do with holy water and crosses.
    And just to clarify, atheism has nothing to do with disliking god.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2014
  15. Wesley Pryce

    Wesley Pryce Angel Investigations

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    Black Thorn
    @JCoatsworth, i agree but i couldn't rep you,sorry :)
     
  16. fresley93

    fresley93 Potential

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    What about the invitation thing, the first I heard of it was in the movie "Lost Boys" but where do you guys think it came from?
     
  17. ILLYRIAN

    ILLYRIAN Druish Pervonian Wizard

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    Black Thorn
    As far as I know the invitation thing was made popular by Abraham Stoker, before that probably from the notion that a person becomes an evil person by inviting the evil into himself. That can be expanded to include inviting the evil into his house.

    Another problem I've found is that finding the origins of vampire activity is nigh on impossible and attempting to find facts from tv or film is a joke.

    It has been said on this thread about vampire myth being created in christian countries. What is a christian country? I don't know.
     
  18. fresley93

    fresley93 Potential

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    The only true Christian state left in the world is the Vatican. Most so-called 'Christian' countries are secular in nature with a large portion of the population having Christian backgrounds, and there is also much cultural influence (holidays, etc.) But they are far removed from medieval 'Christendom'

    Your talking about facts, this is a forum about a universe where vampires exist, and an apocalypse is just around the corner, in fact it's a dull day when one isn't happening.
     
  19. ILLYRIAN

    ILLYRIAN Druish Pervonian Wizard

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    Black Thorn
    fresley93,
    thanks for that
    the question was about christian countries, not a church in a city in Italy.
    As for my talking facts the name of this thread is 'christian symbols and vampires .. .. .. which was about the christian symbols used, those symbols are factual items/objects.
     
  20. fresley93

    fresley93 Potential

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    I was basically agreeing with you, the idea of a Christian country, they really don't exist anymore.

    Okay, and also here is something else to note, the objects have power no matter who is using them. Holy water works regardless of who handles it. And someone like Willow, who is not a Christian, can use crosses with no problems.

    So, to everyone who is worried about people of a certain religion (or none) having no protection. they can use the symbols the same as anyone else.