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Comics...canon?!

AstridDante

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Hi

I know the comics are meant to be canon but I also read that Joss made a comment did he would have no problem ignoring them if he were to revive or return to the televised series. I have to say I have only glanced at a couple of issues online and in some respects I found it really departed from the spirit of the tv show and characters and some of the plot points seem really fantastical and far fetched. Buffy’s fling with Satsu, Giles becoming a teenager again?!! How do ppl generally feel?
 

Puppet

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I don't consider them canon (mostly because I haven't read most of them) and I'm pretty sure, according to Whedon at least, that very few of them are supposed to be, either. When they were first released, sure, but since then there have been a lot of retractions.
 

AstridDante

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Ya I just found from the few I glanced at, they didn’t seem to keep the integrity of the tv series both character wise and plot wise.
 

TriBel

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I consider them canon until Joss says otherwise. At the same time it wouldn't bother me if he dropped them. I like them and have absolutely no problem integrating them into the show. IMO, they're remarkably consistent
Buffy’s fling with Satsu, Giles becoming a teenager again?!!
Again...not a problem. I can read them as metaphors/tropes.
 

AstridDante

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Really I just felt the plot points or arcs went way off the wall and also the way the characters acted didn’t always appreciate what went before on the TV show which makes it harder for me to accept them. That’s just me though
 

BaskingINBangel

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I'm not a comic person in general, and I've never read any of the Buffyverse comics. I have seen bits and pieces of things that happened in the comics, and nothing that I've seen has made me want to read them. So no, for me I don't consider them canon.

Plus, I'm pretty content with how both shows ended (especially AtS) and I have my own headcanon for anything beyond that.
 

TriBel

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Warren, The Master, Fred being alive ...
But we saw Warren and Fred in the TV series after they died. Where's the difference?
like vampires being able to walk in sunlight because the Scoobies can write the laws of magic, like what?
The Catholic Church and the Spanish Inquisition kinda "rewrote the rules" as they applied to witches. Prior to this they were midwives and wise women. Again, where's the difference? Buffy herself rewrote the Slayer handbook. As Giles points out, the only thing stopping change is our inability to imagine change.
 

Ethan Reigns

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I consider the comics to be fan fiction written and drawn by people who were not fans. Some of the things were good like getting everyone out of Sunnydale and expanding the action worldwide but some of the stories were just too farfetched to consider it a continuation of the series. Dawn the centaur? Dawn the giant? It is easier to do this in a comic book rather than a series, so the comics are a dumping ground for all the ideas that were too outrageous / expensive / crazy to do in a series.
 

spikenbuffy

"Why can't I stay"
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But we saw Warren and Fred in the TV series after they died. Where's the difference?
Illyria pretended to be Fred & The First took the appearance of Warren because he died from Willow's dark magic. Both were dead, it's not the same. Illyria & The First just took their appearances , that's all.

Both were meant to stay dead before Whedon change the story & lie about it. Fred's soul was destroyed in ATS S5. It was tragic, moving & great as a story. And it was good like that. I don't like when characters get brought back to life after that it was clear that they won't come back.

I also LOVED that Willow flayed Warren :D in S6.
 
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Antho

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Both were meant to stay dead before Whedon change the story & lie about it.
That’s a problem many supernatural shows have. Death has no meaning. If characters come back to life often times, then as a viewer we stop Having fears for them because we know deaths won’t last. It actually impact the investment in the story. Though Buffy is a show that doesn’t suffer too much of this Problem ( Angel and Buffy are the two people who were ressurected.. two overs 7 years that’s acceptable I think ).
 

TriBel

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Dawn the centaur? Dawn the giant? It is easier to do this in a comic book rather than a series, so the comics are a dumping ground for all the ideas that were too outrageous / expensive / crazy to do in a series.
I don't think they're too "outrageous" - though definitely too expensive. The comics have a tendency to literalise metaphor. Like TV, comics are a visual medium and S7 was heavily reliant in visual metaphor. The first time we see Dawn in Lessons they focus on the fact she's bigger than Buffy. Spike comments on her growth, as does Faith. Dawn's also a china doll in the comics - easily read as Buffy over protecting her by sending her away because she fails to acknowledge she's grown/matured (or ignoring her because she's not a potential). Dawn as a horse is easily explained through myth (and one of the things the TV series is good at tracing the impact of mytheme on modern thought (an "Enlightenment is Myth/Myth is Enlightenment" sorta thing). Buffy's the Artemis figure (also Diane, also Selene, also the Virgin Mary - Artemis is a call back to the Buffy film); Eos (or Aurora) is the sister of Artemis. Eos is the personification of Dawn. One of Eos's symbols is a horse. Why is Dawn as a centaur anymore unbelievable than a ball of green energy taking the form of a 14 year old girl?

Illyria pretended to be Fred & The First took the appearance of Warren because he died from Willow's dark magic. Both were dead, it's not the same. Illyria & The First just took their appearance , that's all.
I think the way in which Fred died is framed with reference to Schrodinger's cat (simultaneously alive and dead). S7 moves us away from Cartesian Dualism - Spirit (or Soul or Mind) as separate from the body towards the idea of the embodied mind. In Chosen, Spike can feel his soul. Who tells us her soul has gone? Wesley? Angel?
 

thrasherpix

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When I tried them the entire tone was different (superheroic rather than heroic, though there's also the global instead of local, etc)...what I'd expect of movies, shows, and comics. (I don't consider the X-Men of the movies to be identical to that of the comics. But even the comics have gotten to contradict themselves enough that they started creating parallel universes to explain it, but rarely identifying "which universe" it is when they want people to buy them.)

Let's see...I remember Amy having such power that she should've been different in season 7 (that is instead of using funny little curses and displaying jealousy over Willow's power, showing what she's really capable of while Willow felt compelled to hold back, and with Warren her magical minion since it was the End Game anyway, at least according to the First), and when I looked it up I found others noted that as well with Joss saying outright he'd forgotten Warren had died, that is it wasn't the brilliant writing some make it out to be. It was explained that she saved Warren on another dimension before he died so the First shouldn't have been able to use him in season s7 (and I don't recall the First taking Buffy's form in season 3 despite that Buffy died "only for a moment"). Also, Amy didn't like cheese, but when the army found her she wanted cheese.

That's all I remember clearly about why I gave up on them. No, I don't consider them canon. Joss may say they are, but he'll just as easily say they're not the moment it suits him to do so.
 

Athene

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I don't consider them canon I think they're something else if it's not the actors playing the characters and everything else that made the tv show the tv show.
 

The Bronze

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I use doublethink. I've bought them and there's some good stuff in there. It also led to some great debates here and kept things fresh. So I do consider them canon.

However they're not the show and there's some real rubbish in there. So I don't consider them canon.
 

Antho

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Don’t fans consider comics canons or not when that please them ? I mean that’s just a random question but that seems easy to me to consider it canon if you like the story and in the reverse do not considering them canon if you don’t like the story.
 

TriBel

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I don't consider them canon I think they're something else if it's not the actors playing the characters and everything else that made the tv show the tv show.
And if Joss were to gather the cast together and release BtVS13 as a TV show following on from BtVS12 would you consider them canon? Genuine question. 😊



It's only recently Comics/Graphic novels have been taken seriously as an art form and it's only recently they developed their own critical framework. About 15/20 years ago, I taught a university module that included Alan Moores From Hell and finding secondary material, or even something advising how to read it aesthetically was a nightmare. A direct comparison between mediums is often pointless: Film isn't literature; TV isn't film; Comics aren't TV. Each comes with its advantages and limitations. I tend to take everything on its own merit...and I try to give each form the same amount of attention. There's some dross: there's dross in Gaiman's Sandman but it's still one of the few texts that's made me cry over a death and the dross didn't stop me investing in the Absolute Editions. I read A Dark Place today and Spike I see in that is on a trajectory you can trace through the IDW comics (not canon? Not sure) to the Spike in School Hard.

School Hard (First words) "Home, Sweet Home"... You Haven't Changed a Bit (IDW) - meeting Dru again. "So much wrong with this. There are a thousand things I could be doing that would make more sense. Fighting. Running. Diving headfirst into Illyria's fists. I've been around every block. I'm not stupid. This isn't normal. It was never normal, even when it felt right. I know that it's probably about to come crashing down...but right now...at this moment, if only for a moment, I am home"... A Dark Place
"Family. Home. Those words mean something different when you're walking around with a soul buzzing in your chest. Same world, same people. But nothing's the same. Home".
Don't try to tell me these writers don't care about continuity or haven't seen the series. And I love that he refers to Pearl and Nash as "Flowers in the Attic". 🤣

Don’t fans consider comics canons or not when that please them ?
That seems to be the case but, personally, I think it's wrong. It's likely there'll never be a continuation of BtVS as per my example above. In this case, it's fine and down to the individual reader. However, if it's ever picked up by Joss as a TV production then surely it will be down to him?
 
B
Btvs fan
What a load of bullshit. You don't need help how to read a comic. Also comics have been huge since Gwen Stacey's death in the 70's

AlphaFoxtrot

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Not in any meaningful sense. Most of the concurrent comics may expand upon material presented in the series, but do not influence the series. By the time Season 8-12 were written, Buffy was pretty much fallow as a franchise, anything that happened in the comics would never be relevant to any other mediums. To my knowledge, the only thing that originated in the comics, then migrated to the series was the +2 Axe.

Now, I should also note. Buffy never had a consistent canon. The Movie Script was canon, not the movie. Each season operates on it's own internal rules that may or may not carry over to other seasons. The Events of Season 4 of Angel never carried over to Buffy Season 7, including the Sun being blotted out and a fallen angel taking over the world, but Fray is canon.

As far as discussion go, I give them what is called in Trek circles the Johanna/Yesteryear Treatment, where the stories aren't important, but the underlying premises in the stories reflect thoughts by the creators of the series on how the back story of the show works, as long as it doesn't contradict anything that appears in the series. But even that's a mixed bag. Whistler as a mysterious messenger of a higher power who kind of works like a post modern angel, great, wonderful. Whistler as a half demon half power who is working for Twilight, a sapient universe that's trying to cause the seventh big event of season eight, eh, not so much.
 
B
Btvs fan
Whedon didn't have as much planned and thought out as some like to think. David Fury outright said it in an interview while Harry Groener said that he was still writing the Graduation script on set when they were filming 😳
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