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Connor: Buffy's Equal/Opposite

nightshade

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Ok, I'll admit I'm not really sure where I'm going with this!

Connor and Buffy have similar strengths and powers, they are both (taking out Faith) the only one with those powers

Both born in LA, only to be taken away from that because of being chosen. Buffy with her slayerness and Connor being the miracle child of the vampires.

Darla died for Connor and Angel killed Darla for Buffy.
 

Buffy Summers

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That's an interesting parallel to draw. Both get "reborn" - Buffy when she comes back from the dead, and Connor when his life is re-written.
 

nightshade

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Both have had time re written by Angel too, admittedly only a day for Buffy but Angel still made that decision for her.
 

Blaze

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This is interesting, lots of stuff I wouldn't have thought of. I agree though, and if we were going to draw comparison, I think many parallels could be written about the Dawn/Angel/Buffy/Connor quartet. (for example, Dawn and Connor oppose each other, Connor caused people's memories to be erases, Dawn caused people's memory to be created.
 

nightshade

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This is interesting, lots of stuff I wouldn't have thought of. I agree though, and if we were going to draw comparison, I think many parallels could be written about the Dawn/Angel/Buffy/Connor quartet. (for example, Dawn and Connor oppose each other, Connor caused people's memories to be erases, Dawn caused people's memory to be created.
Connor's new family in season 5 had to have memories created, and in order for memories of Dawn to be created the old ones had to be erased or altered
 

Rogueslayer

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I can't believe I never noticed this before. They're both responsible for vringing a new life into the world, Connor for the power that be and buffy for dawn.

I can't decide whether Connor has more in common with buffy or with dawn.
 

crazysoulless

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I remember I used to think Connor & Dawn were twins and he was conceived by Buffy & Angel in IWRY and that when the Oracles turned back the day they had to place him in some kind of temporal stasis because "What is done cannot be undone but what is not yet done can be avoided" and couldn't undo his creation but could delay it. (We know some things survived the day reversal since Angel got to retain his memories)

That they figured the next time Angel had sex it would be with Buffy but it was with Darla and that's who they placed Connor inside of and her womb was magically protected (allowing a vampire to carry to term and prevent abortion) since Angel won the trials and was owed one life.

And the monks started the spell in 1999 and added Dawn to what would've been Buffy's pregnancy of Connor and she was "born" in August 2000, exactly 9 months after IWRY. The reason Dawn wasn't a Potential is that The Key is pure energy and would burn out the demon essence so the Slayer powers went to her twin brother, Connor, much like the twins in the Fray comics with Harth getting the prophetic dreams instead of Melaka. Robin Wood isn't part or full Slayer since he doesn't have a twin sister and can't get the powers on his own since they are passed down to girls. So Connor is basically a boy Slayer and that is why he is human but part demon.

But now I think of Connor as Angel's and Dawn as Buffy's. S9's The Core proved it was Buffy's blood that created Dawn.
 

NileQT87

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I've also noticed that Dawn was created 9 months after IWRY. And we know Dawn was genetically made from Buffy, not directly from Joyce and Hank. One could say that Buffy is Dawn's real mother, not her sister, and that line was blurred even in the show sometimes.

The writers, if they were smart (they often aren't) could actually do something with that to mine an immense amount of new and sudden drama to a stale franchise. It would be interesting, at least.

Connor and Dawn as half-siblings (I will never accept anyone but Darla as Connor's mother) would be an interesting storyline. It would throw a wrench into the works of kinda 'shipping them, but the half-sibling thing seriously would be INTERESTING. It would also bring Angel quite shockingly back into both Buffy and Dawn's lives if he were actually the biological dad from a day that was never supposed to happen.

It would also make IWRY relevant as having ever happened (something Buffy likely still hasn't learned about). Angel gave up his life for Buffy's foretold death, and yet, she still died anyway. When he earned a life in The Trial, Connor was born. It seems that the PtBs royally screwed over Angel when they said that Buffy was destined to die sooner if he didn't take back the day, only for it to still happen. Playing by the PtBs' own rules, Angel is owed another life. Now, it's also possible that the reason Willow was allowed to even resurrect Buffy was because the appropriate trade of a life for a life had actually been made (it wasn't the deer sacrifice or the thaumogenesis hitchhiker). Angel's sacrifice in IWRY was for the foretold death and life of another!

Connor, even though his powers are much more directly related to specific vampire senses (hearing, sight and smell, which Slayers don't have), is pretty much the closest thing to a male Slayer, even if he's more of a dhampir (except for the fact that he's from the union of two vampires, not a vampire and a human). It also brings to mind Melaka and Harth Fray. Even the fact that Harth is an actual vampire kind of echoes in Connor being dhampir-like.

Dawn was made from a Slayer. Connor was made from vampires. Like Buffy and Angel, they're two things that are exact opposites. Their real biological 'parents' are a Slayer and vampire who were forbidden lovers meant to be enemies because of what they are and actually brought together by Higher Powers in a way that wasn't an accident and prophetic. Buffy and Angel, unlike Spike, are always at the mercy of prophecy and destiny. Dawn and Connor are also steeped in being tools of prophecy and destiny. That they survived as their own individual selves past being the Key between dimensions and a tool to bring about Jasmine's Utopia is purely accident.

Dawn desperately needs a real arc about what she is beyond Glory's use of her as a Key years ago. Connor's arc and destiny had juice beyond one season. The fact that he's a superbeing and took a long time to develop into a healthy state of mind kept him useful from a writing perspective and allowed him to be part of the superhero action. Dawn ended up just being there and feeling decidedly not useful (to the point where Potential largely was about just that). Dawn's Key-ness should have more to it.
 
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crazysoulless

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When Angel & Buffy finally marry each other (sheds tears for the claddagh rings) Connor & Dawn will be step-siblings.

In BtVS s2, Buffy had a prophetic dream that Drusilla slit Angel's throat. In AtS s3, Justine slit Wesley's throat when he tried to protect Connor from Angel. In AtS s4, Angel slit Connor's throat.

In the BtVS s4 finale, Buffy said, "Throw 'em into the sea for all I care." She wears a black dress and short black wig, reminiscent of Mrs. White from Clue and the female inmates from Chicago, involving women who murder the men who scorned them. "3 billion of you carrying around the same worn-out urge. Men and their sales." In the AtS s3 finale, Angel waited on a beach for Cordelia to discuss dating (3 years after Prom, 2 1/2 after IWRY) when Connor trapped him in the sea.

I think Slayers do have vampiric senses, they just need to hone them.

I think Tara & Anya were the cost of resurrecting Buffy. The deer was a blood sacrifice (Vino de Madre "wine of the mother" = Gaia is Mother Earth, the wine is the blood of an animal synonymous with nature such as a deer in the forest) to call forth Osiris. They still needed a trade and since Willow demanded "the warrior of the people" that meant Buffy the Slayer. And 2 spirits (human and demon essence) would require 2 deaths (human Tara, ex demon Anya). In Seeing Red, Tara & Buffy are shot but Tara dies and Buffy lives. In Chosen, Anya & Buffy are run through with a sword but Anya dies and Buffy lives. They were half of the group that performed the ritual. Willow was exempt since she underwent the trials. Xander was unlikely as a male.

I've always believed the "end of days" in IWRY was referring to the s7 episode titled End of Days when Angel prevented Caleb from killing Buffy, giving her time to regroup. "You just don't like who did the rescuing, that's all. Wishin' I was your boyfriend what's-his-height. Oh wait, he's run off." "I don't need a boyfriend. For slaying or any other reason."

I think it would've been better if instead of Spike, Dawn's Key energy was used to cleanse the Hellmouth in Chosen. Buffy said to Dawn in Grave, "I want to see you grow up. The woman you're going to become. Because she's going to be beautiful and she's going to be powerful." It would fit if Buffy's inner child was light personified since Buffy is sun symbolism and Angel is rain symbolism. It would balance Connor killing Jasmine. And no Spike bragging about saving the world.

In Out of My Mind, Willow created artificial sunlight to search the charred ruins of the high school. In Grave, Willow created a comet that caused a crator. Buffy & Dawn had to climb their way out.
 
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crazysoulless

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But that's from S5... :confused:
In Checkpoint, Spike was acting like he saved the day by interceding her fight and Buffy accused him of getting in the way. He said she was upset because it wasn't her ex boyfriend who helped her. He meant Riley but it works with Angel too since "he wears lifts, you know."

Buffy: I was lucky you came along.

Buffy: You look timely. And also good.
 

EarthLogic

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I think it would've been better if instead of Spike, Dawn's Key energy was used to cleanse the Hellmouth in Chosen. Buffy said to Dawn in Grave, "I want to see you grow up. The woman you're going to become. Because she's going to be beautiful and she's going to be powerful." It would fit if Buffy's inner child was light personified
Oh I like that! It would work nicely off what Buffy says earlier in the season about letting Dawn die now if she had to and the theme of growing up. We also wouldn't have had the need for the ridiculous jewellery ex machina, although Dawn would fit the description of 'someone with a soul, but stronger than human'. But I have to say I did like Spike's sacrifice - it was a powerful moment and a good conclusion to his arc. I'd hate to have to watch Dawn die since Buffy had sacrificed so much in the past in order to protect her.

 
In Checkpoint, Spike was acting like he saved the day by interceding her fight and Buffy accused him of getting in the way. He said she was upset because it wasn't her ex boyfriend who helped her. He meant Riley but it works with Angel too since "he wears lifts, you know."

Buffy: I was lucky you came along.

Buffy: You look timely. And also good.
Yeah I got that, I just wasn't sure if you were arguing there was an intentional link there? And also because I'm inclined to agree with Buffy - she doesn't need a boyfriend. One of the things I wanted to see was her going at least a season without a boyfriend/love interest.
 
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crazysoulless
crazysoulless
Buffy realized that too, hence the cookie dough speech. Angel just gave her time to regroup. She killed Caleb without his help.

crazysoulless

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Oh I like that! Dawn would fit 'someone with a soul, but stronger than human'. And it would work nicely off what Buffy says earlier in the season about letting Dawn die now if she had to and the theme of growing up and leaving behind childhood. We also wouldn't have had the need for the ridiculous jewellery ex machina. I have to say I did like Spike's sacrifice - it was a powerful moment and a good conclusion to his arc, and I would be quite upset with Dawn dying.
I'm torn on Spike's sacrifice. He stayed dead for only 19 days. As a conclusion, it would've been beautiful. Instead he ends up in LA throwing his sexual relationship with Buffy in Angel's face, calling girls bint, humping Harmony, and flirting with Winifred. I was rooting for late s7 Spike. He learned to stand on his own in AtS but I didn't see as much depth.

I loved that the amulet brought Angel full circle since in his first BtVS appearance he gave Buffy a necklace that saved her life which led to her stopping The Master from opening the Hellmouth and then in his last BtVS appearance he gave her a necklace that closed the Hellmouth.

But I don't like that the amulet gets all the credit for annihilating the Turak-han. There were 32 Slayers each killing over half a dozen per minute. That is nearly 2,000 slain in 10 minutes.

In Bargaining #2, Buffy climbed out alone and it led to feeling as though she lost her humanity. "When I clawed my way out of that grave, I left something behind....a part of me." In Grave, she pulls Dawn (her humanity) out with her and it means she has become whole. I wonder what Chosen would mean if Buffy made that rooftop to bus jump without her. In some ways, it would be Dawn taking the death some fans think was meant for her in The Gift.
 
MarlieTheSlayer
MarlieTheSlayer
''In Grave, she pulls Dawn (her humanity) out with her and it means she has become whole. ''- I never noticed that!

EarthLogic

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I loved that the amulet brought Angel full circle since in his first BtVS appearance he gave Buffy a necklace that saved her life which led to her stopping The Master from opening the Hellmouth and then in his last BtVS appearance he gave her a necklace that closed the Hellmouth.
I liked the full circle aspect too, but the difference was that the cross wasn't this all-mystical power thingy. It was a small symbol that ended up saving her life. The amulet was another example of Joss trying to squash too much into one finale. He could have come up with a better way of bringing Angel in and closing the Hellmouth. If he'd planned it better there could have been a link between the Jasmine arc on AtS and The First which would have necessitated Angel coming to Sunnydale.

But I don't like that the amulet gets all the credit for annihilating the Turak-han. There were 32 Slayers each killing over half a dozen per minute. That is nearly 2,000 slain in 10 minutes.
It also made the slayers' presence rather pointless - they could have just dropped Spike into the Hellmouth and run away at the very beginning.

In Bargaining #2, Buffy climbed out alone and it led to feeling as though she lost her humanity. "When I clawed my way out of that grave, I left something behind....a part of me." In Grave, she pulls Dawn (her humanity) out with her and it means she has become whole. I wonder what Chosen would mean if Buffy made that rooftop to bus jump without her. In some ways, it would be Dawn taking the death some fans think was meant for her in The Gift.
Interesting question. Perhaps we could say that the metaphor would have shifted by S7, as they tend to do throughout the series, with Dawn no longer representing Buffy's humanity like in S6 but Buffy's adolescence, thus completing the overarching 'growing up' metaphor.

And we still could have had Spike's sacrifice: imagine him fighting in the Hellmouth wondering how to trigger the amulet, then Dawn accidentally touches it and it starts to glow. She realises she's the one who can wield it because of the power of the Key and decides to do that. Spike stays to stop the Turok-Han from getting near her while she activates it, because he had promised Buffy before that he would protect her 'til the end of the world'. Of course then they'd have to figure out a way to get him to Wolfram and Hart, but I think that wouldn't be too difficult as 'all-powerful evil law firm' pretty much gives you licence to do anything as a writer.
I really want to write a fanfic now.
 

crazysoulless

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Connor's AtS s5 episode is called Origin.

Buffy's graphic novel prequel inspired by the movie is called The Origin.

I've always thought of BtVS s7 and AtS s4 as one dual apocalypse.

The First Evil v Power That Be
FE & Jasmine want to be corporeal
FE hate/war thru mind control v Jasmine love/peace thru mind control
FE's Caleb v Jasmine's the Beast
Buffy kills Caleb v Angelus kills the Beast
WC hunted/killed v WR&H hunted/killed
Head of WC Buffy v CEO of WR&H Angel

Cordelia's arc just plagiarized Buffy's. In a season finale, she travels to a heavenly dimension. The next season she returns. She has a hitchhiker who wants to kill her so it can live. A memory spell is done and it causes everyone to have amnesia. Her return started the apocalypse. She gets possessed by a woman who seduced a guy and had sex with him in her body.

Dawn realizing the amulet is meant for her reminds me of the Doctor Who Chronicles of Narnia episode.
 
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Bite-me

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Dawn realizing the amulet is meant for her reminds me of the Doctor Who Chronicles of Narnia episode.
Really in what way?

You are right, metaphors can change as the series progress, I am not against Dawn being given more to do in a later story line but I think Dawn full filled her metaphorical purpose as the key perfectly. "She's me, the monks made her out of me" / Buffy is Dawn, Dawn is Buffy / "Ben is Glory, Glory is Ben" Buffy had been fearing what the slayer was turning her into, a supernatural powered women like Glory is her fear of her slayer side, what being a slayer means (which she discovered has demonic origins) as well as her fear of what being a adult in this world requires. Dawn like Ben is her vulnerable human half, as well as representing her inner child, the link to her humanity, "The key is the link" like vampires represent never growing up, to become a fully actualized adult and avoid becoming a hard unfeeling adult (Giles/Ben) the inner child must be accepted (She's so annoying/she's not my sister) to epiphany "She's me" to integration, in the form of self sacrifice (in a literal and double sense) remember what Dawn represents, she died so another part of her could live and the world/live in the world.

And while season five could stand as the final culmination and achievement of Buffy's journey, she lives another season to qoute @thrasherpix
metaphorically "Death is a transition from one stage of life to the next."
 
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