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Connor, not Dawn

Miss Muffet

"Can I trade in the children for more cash?"
Joined
Apr 28, 2021
Messages
49
Weird thought I had: What if Dawn and Connor had had each other's roles?
Connor would be Buffy little brother and Dawn would be Angel and Darla's child. How would this change the series, considering they'd respond to events differently?
 

DeadlyDuo

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If Connor had been born in Angel Season 2, they could've gotten rid of Dawn completely, made Connor the key, then Buffy Season 5 and Angel Season 2 could've been one big Season crossover. It would've been interesting to see how Buffy would've reacted to finding out Angel had a child with Darla, especially as Connor would be Angel's only child ever. Angel left Buffy because he couldn't give her kids yet then went and had a kid with his ex.
 

thrasherpix

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I'm having a real hard time imagining that.

Dawn was created and programmed. So would Connor. Furthermore, he'd also have normal boy strength and fighting ability.

Though Connor, like Dawn, would have the ability to learn (ironically more so than some other characters) and apparently the monks couldn't program better self-preservation instincts into the human shape, he would not have been under the same brutal conditions and hateful indoctrination that he was in a Hell dimension with Holtz. So I'd see him as a bit more like Xander, though with "annoying little brother" emphasized.

I actually like this idea. Spike protects him as he goes to the Magic Box, acting like a scared boy trying to be brave when Glory has her (as opposed to putting up a fight with reckless insults as Spike would do) waiting for Buffy to save him, etc. I'm also curious if Buffy sacrificing herself for her little brother instead of sister would somehow be more controversial (to avoid derailing, I'll avoid the specific actual incidents that make me think this is a possibility).



Btw, I can't help but think of this scene...not a perfect match, but the demonic woman there speaking of "Oscar and Ozma" as Glory might "Dawn and the Key" (seeming more like a Hellgoddess to me) with the "Hound" replacing the magic snake (for the pedantic, the Hound that "follows up on the snake" if Connor was then hidden from her again as they ran, or after the snake failed as it did against Dawn)...I see Connor acting like that in this case, rather than how he'd act if he'd been raised (as a child of two vampires) by Holtz on a demon dimension:







Likewise, if Dawn was raised in that other dimension under Holtz then I'd see her as just as brutal in addition to having the fighting and physical capabilities as Connor (since she was born of the prophecy, and between vampires). I'd see her a lot like the Wishverse Buffy, at least when first stepping through onto Earth. I'm curious how the scene of Connor taking on that dealer and rescuing a girl that he was attracted to would play out as Dawn (it could still work, but it would likely have a very different tone and assumptions). I'm especially curious how Faith and Dawn would mix in this case.

I think in this case, if they're still going to use a mystical pregnancy, then Dawn would have to replace Cordelia in that regard (with more added in) which would almost certainly be even more controversial today than as it already stands (though then again, many who hate that story line think Cordelia and/or the actress deserved better, which would be different from someone just introduced, especially that irritating).



In short, as I try to imagine it, I see them as pretty much the same, just gender-flipped. It's the mystical pregnancy angle on Angel that would either be scrapped or drastically changed (because of what writers were willing and able to do with the material and keep it on the same station).
 
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thrasherpix

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Gods, it just occurred to me...the Key as Buffy's little brother being like Sam from The Lost Boys...and later on (perhaps s6) with the Buffyverse version of the Frog Brothers (since Connor starts his own group) to outdo the others (or at least prove their worth), but most of the time they just annoy everyone from Spike to Harmony (and seeing the boys get into an argument over comics with Xander and Willow could be fun). They could have their moments, but still find themselves in over their head. And minimize the "get out, get out, get out!" (Though I do understand that in s5.)
 

thrasherpix

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In a literal exchange, that is Dawn is the Key and Connor is Angel's son, and are traded somehow, it would merge the shows as well as add a lot of x-factors.

I'm still puzzling out how Jasmine and Illyria would see the Key and what they could do with her/it if they thought it convenient. How would Dawn's presence affect portals, and if exposed to the Orlon Window (the cube that restores memories), what would happen to her personality? (Going by what Wes said, Dawn would have the memories, she'd just know they're not hers, and have to find out who she is beyond the monks and all else, assuming the magic item undid the monk's spell as well as that of the sorcerer, and I don't see why it wouldn't.)

I'm sure W&H would be very interested in Dawn as they were Connor. (And would she go to Hemery High?And was school in session when the sun went away?)

I could also see Angel trying to justify using Dawn to get Connor back from the Hell dimension, if Connor was still in the other dimension. (Not to say he would succeed, even to himself, but he'd wrestle with the possibility.)



While this wouldn't necessarily demand a merger of the shows if it were just Dawn who transferred over, she isn't an island, and it would be strange to me if there wasn't even more crossovers than where Willow showed up, at least once season 6 Buffy was over. (It would also raise the question to me that if Angelus was immune to the epic spell that altered memories of the Beast as he was "submerged" or whatever, then was Angelus also immune to the monk's spell? I think it's a fair question if the monks spell even reached beyond Sunnydale besides Hank, and maybe Hank never called because he literally didn't remember Dawn while Joyce was programmed not to say anything to him about her.)


And as for Connor in Sunnydale, Connor is so essential to Jasmine's plans (including in Cordelia's body), that it's essentially Jasmine coming into direct conflict with the First (and Caleb) which could be interesting, but in any case I don't see how the stories can otherwise use the same material without merging them together (which would bring Dawn back in). I think more fiat would have to be used on why Spike isn't dusted by Connor. I really don't see him getting along with anyone in season 6 Buffy (and can't say I'd blame him), though I'd love to see Buffy and Connor talking about Angel.
 
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Priceless

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I adore Dawn and I really don't need more males in this show, especially ones dependent on Buffy. For me, by season 7, he'd become a little-Xander and we've already got a big Xander.

Angel also needs a son, not a daughter, because his relationship with Connor is meant to also be a reflection of his difficult relationship with his own father.
 

Miss Muffet

"Can I trade in the children for more cash?"
Joined
Apr 28, 2021
Messages
49
I think there would be a difference in how Holtz would treat Dawn compared to Connor. He's from the 1700s, and she's a girl, so I don't think he'd like the fact she killed demons, even if it was necessary to survive in Quor'toth.
 

thrasherpix

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I think there would be a difference in how Holtz would treat Dawn compared to Connor. He's from the 1700s, and she's a girl, so I don't think he'd like the fact she killed demons, even if it was necessary to survive in Quor'toth.
I do, for two reasons:

1. He'd want her to kill Angel (at least if they ever returned), AND this is the daughter of Angel and Darla, the people he hated the most, and who the child would remind him of. He also seemed to have at least a little regard for Justine and he still pinned her hand to a table with a knife. This isn't someone who sees females as fragile little critters who must be coddled as babies. A child of two vampires would need even less coddling, especially if she's to be a weapon against Angel (who he still thinks of as Angelus somewhat).

2. I don't think he'd have a choice. Doesn't sound like there were any safe spaces there to have the luxury of trying to protect someone. Frankly, I'm amazed that he lived long enough for Connor to be old enough to help him given the particularly infamous reputation of the dimension, which sounds far worse than Pylea.
 
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