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Cordelia and her feelings for Doyle

nightshade

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Do you think Cordelia had feelings for Doyle before Hero? We saw he liked her right from the beginning but did you see the same from her?
 

telperion66

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No, I didn't pick up any reciprocated feelings from her. It may well have worked better consequently, with her rejecting and ignoring him giving rise to comic levity in the show in terms of his efforts.

My gut feeling is that they were just good friends.

I'm afraid that in 'Hero' when she finally relents and asks him if he's going to ask her out or not, we see a mere plot device to add to the mournfulness of the characters' reaction after his death. I don't think they ever really had plans for Cordy and Doyle on any serious level.
 
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I think she saw Doyle was the type of guy she wanted, since her relationship with Angel was just friends. I don’t think she had major feelings for him, but I do think she felt that she could in the future, feel that way about him.
 

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Definitely. She just wasn't ready to admit to it, even to herself. It always reminds me of how she and Xander suddenly kissed and the viewers were sooo surprised, but then when you do a S2 rewatch, you totally see the signs of two people who are slowly becoming more and more attracted to one another. I feel like a similar thing happens with Cordy in AtS S1 and you can see it on re-watches.
 

spikenbuffy

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I think Cordy liked Doyle as a friend and then when his ex wife has arrived in LA, Cordy started to considerate her feelings for him as something that could develop. But we'll never know.
 

Myheadsgonenumb

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Her crush on Doyle is pretty much stated in 'The Bachelor Party' - when she 'kinda has to buy him a moccachino for saving my life - don't you think?' and then she is so jealous when Harri turns up. That's when she begins to admit to herself - after he saved her life. But there's little bits and pieces that hint at it before then (especially if you're way over invested like I am and think about the ramifications of every sentence uttered between the two of them.)

In Lonely Heart she falls asleep on him on the sofa - which is a huge indicator of how much she already trusts him and how comfortable she is with him. They haven;t known each other that long, it really wouldn't be unlikely for a young woman - alone with a man she barely knows - to make sure she stays awake even if he drops off. And if she couldn't stay awake, she would have been as far away from him on the couch as possible, her body pointing in the opposite direction and making herself as small as possible. To have fallen the way she did, her head on his shoulder - she must have been allowing herself to sit close, she isn't cringing away in the corner, and she wasn't creating virtual space (as the sofa is small) by angling her body away from him. Huge indicator that she feels for him very quickly - but then when they wake up, they share that awkward glance - like they realise they got too cosy and now are a bit embarrassed. It's lovely.
And then at the end, when Angel is saying they should all go out, they glance at each other, smile, and then both say no. They know exactly what the other is thinking. He even finishes her sentence. They are so bonded <fangirl hyperventilating into a paperbag>

Then in In the Dark ... so many beautiful moments. When Doyle goes off to celebrate for a drink down at the pub - he walks off by himself, doesn't invite anyone with him. But Cordelia having said goodbye to Angel, goes to the pub with him - and invites Oz. Doyle said nothing about having company, but she is somehow sure that not only is she definitely invited, but she can bring along friends. Why would she think that? And why would she even want to go? I put it to you all - this is not the first evening she has spent in Doyle's company at the pub. This is a thing that happens frequently - hence why she knows she is included in the completely not handed out invite. Which then takes me back to the end of Lonely Heart and the secret look between them and them telling Angel they can go home and he can sit in the dark alone ... they didn't go straight home! That's when they started their pub visiting.
Then the next morning she is getting a cup of water from the cooler whilst he groans with his hangover. She opens his aspirin for him and then hands over the water. She was never getting water for herself, she was actually taking care of him the whole time. Cordy - at this stage of her development - not really known for taking care of people.
Then there is the beautiful flirtatious banter between them at his apartment. It's flirting on both sides. And then again we see how comfortable she is with him as she sits there eating her chips regaling him with tales of Spike.
And there is the way she says 'Doyle!' when he gets hit by the torture demon. That's not the tone of voice you use when your friend gets hit.

In I fall to Pieces she starts the needlessly touching him portion of their relationship. The number of times she manages to touch him on their way out of the office at the end - again accompanied by flirtatious banter - is classic crush behaviour.

And in Rm W/A Vu there's more needless touching when she slides her arm through his as they leave the apartment. The hug is because she is so happy but the arm linking is completely superfluous. And again - this version of Cordelia- not know for being overly demonstrative in her affections.

It becomes textual and she actually admits to it in The Bachelor Party - after he saves her life, and the first thing he asks is 'are you OK?' The look on her face when they're both on the floor pretty much says it all. And of course she says as much to Angel, the reason she declares she's going to have to kill her self is precisely because she has these feelings for him. Then she tries to ask him out. She is so jealous when Harri turns up and then so pleased when she hears that she's getting married - Angel actually has to bundle her out of the room. She spends the whole batchelorette party asking about Doyle. And then she attacks him with a silver tray because she's so offended someone would try and hurt him - again, much more the way you would defend the honour of a crush rather than just a friend.
And there is a chance that the reason she was getting so dressed up and meeting her date at the office was at least partially to make Doyle jealous - and to make sure he knew she had a date. Even if she wasn't fully admitting it at that point.

She's very handsy again in I will Remember You, grabbing hold of him rather more than is strictly necessary when Angel starts to eat everything in sight.

And then there's Hero- where of course it's made very explicit

And then there's something at the end of Parting Gifts which is a little bit heartbreaking. She tells Wesley 'one of the perks of the job: after an all nighter we get eggs.' Angel doesn't eat. Wesley has just got there. 'We' is her and Doyle. Which also suggests there were all nighters we never saw and a lot more bonding time happened off screen. They worked together through the night and then had breakfast together often enough for it to become a 'perk of the job'. Add in all those trips to the pub we don't see (and the one we do in IWRY) and Doyle and Cordy were spending a lot of time together. Lots of time for feelings to develop.

The reason she doesn't admit to herself she likes him, until The Bachelor Party, is - exactly as she states - Xander Harris. So she makes her snipey comments ('you're a lot smarter than you look ... of course you look like a ******') , she gets defensive when Kate suggests the possibility of there being something - because she doesn't want to date a fixer upper again.

They get closer in episode 2 and she's falling for him by episode 3. She's just fighting it and denying it every step of the way because he's short and poor and she's already been down this road and he isn't what she thinks she wants - or at least what she thinks she ought to want. But even she gives up pretending once he's saved her life in episode 7.

So yes- I would say Cordelia definitely had feelings for Doyle before Hero - and that it was a very organic and natural build up (and absolutely the best ship in the whole damn buffyverse).
 

AngelsCordy

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No, I do not think Cordelia had more than a feeling of friendship for Doyle. Maybe she realized at the last moment. Who knows? But when friends make you aware of these fellings I've learned in the last few days, then they are not real feelings. As bad as it is.
 

Anyanka Bunny Slayer

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God, no. Cordy didn't have "feelings" for Doyle. She put up with him because he obviously had a crush on her. That's how she is. She liked being adored and wanted. But I think she rather looked down on him...sure, she was friendly to him...but "real" feelings? Nah.
 

RachM

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No, I do not think Cordelia had more than a feeling of friendship for Doyle. Maybe she realized at the last moment. Who knows? But when friends make you aware of these fellings I've learned in the last few days, then they are not real feelings. As bad as it is.
Cordy's friends (really, only Angel at that point) didn't make her aware of her feelings, she came to the conclusion herself, over several episodes, as @Myheadsgonenumb pointed out. No one said to Cordy "Hey, you and Doyle belong together, maybe you have feelings for him!". She developed feelings on her own as she and Doyle grew closer.
 

AngelsCordy

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The way I see it was at the very last moment that she has developed feelings for him. Before that, nothing was indicated. Up until his moment they was only friends. And I think that is in the eye of every single fans, how they perceive something.
 
RachM
RachM
I never said it wasn't in the eye of the fan, I was simply refuting your implication that Cordy was told by her friends that she had feelings for Doyle.

Bluebird

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The way I see it was at the very last moment that she has developed feelings for him. Before that, nothing was indicated. Up until his moment they was only friends. And I think that is in the eye of every single fans, how they perceive something.
Sounds like you're talking about Cangel. Because that can be applied to a lot of the relationships on the show, fan perception. Where is it shown explicitly that Faith has feelings for Buffy or vice versa? Nowhere, but doesn't stop the Fuffys. Good on them.

I don't ship any ships, I actually think it's the least interesting part of the show, but I will say I enjoyed the chemistry between Doyle and Cordy as friends, partners, maybe more? I think that's how you tease 'what could have been' rather than the clumsy way Cangel done it. I'm more about the idea of romance in fiction than the literal relationship that I must see on screen. I think that's where the Fuffys got it right, they don't need to see it to enjoy it.
 

AngelsCordy

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No above, I didnt talk about Cangel. At least Cangel have developed over years - what you can not say of other couples, like Bangel - do not understand me wrong, I like Bangel too. But not so much as Cangel and for me this relationship was the best relationship in the whole fandom. And also here it is again in the eye of the beholder, what pleases one, does not like the others and vice versa.

I have talked on Cordelia and Doyle - I didn't saw that they had feelings for each other. First at the last moment. Someone else might not like what you like, but it doesn't matter if you like something. You have to like it in the first place - and nobody should have a bad conscience of liking and shipping what he or she likes.

The funny thing here is that when you send Cangel, for example, you are out of favor with someone. It does not matter what you have for views, you are already in disfavor.
 

Myheadsgonenumb

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The way I see it was at the very last moment that she has developed feelings for him. Before that, nothing was indicated. Up until his moment they was only friends. And I think that is in the eye of every single fans, how they perceive something.
But she's literally trying to ask him out when his ex wife arrives. That's not in the eye of the fan - that's textually explicit. Even if you don't pick up on all the flirtations and looks and unnecessary touches before that (which are being specifically put in - it's mentioned in the commentary for Rm W/A Vu - the writers are actively building up Doyle and Cordy) then her 5 minute rant to Angel about how she doesn't want men like the rich guy she'd been out with the night before because rich and handsome is no longer enough and then contrasts rich guys behaviour (he's called Pierce) and Doyle's behaviour and announces she is going to have to kill herself because she swore that when she went down this road with Xander Harris she'd rather be dead than date a fixer upper again. I.E she is starting to want to date Doyle and she doesn't want to want that so she'd rather be dead. But then she talks herself round into buying a moccachino and asks Angel to watch the phones as she and Doyle head out. It is only Harri arriving that stops her asking him out (and you only have to watch the way she builds up to the words that this isn't just a 'thank you' - all the shuffling her feet and drawing out hr syllables - and then she insults him because she's Cordelia and is horrified when she realises what she just said - when does Cordelia care she's insulted someone? never that's when.) And once Harri is there she is openly annoyed, upset and jealous to find out Doyle has a wife and then really quite delighted when her fiancee walks in. That is all textual.

And obviously Doyle's feelings for Cordelia are made explicit from the end of episode one and are a continuing part of those 9 episodes.

Not everything is in the eye of a fan. If something is stated then it's really there. And if you don't notice something is there even after it's been stated then that isn't an opinion it's a misunderstanding of a fact.
 

Bluebird

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The funny thing here is that when you send Cangel, for example, you are out of favor with someone. It does not matter what you have for views, you are already in disfavor.
I'm not sure what this means in relation to my post you're pointing out. I've said many times that if I'm attacking the ship I'm not discounting those who like it. That's the fun of life, everyone likes different things. Criticising Cangel is not the same as criticising Cangel fans.
 

AngelsCordy

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I'm not sure what this means in relation to my post you're pointing out. I've said many times that if I'm attacking the ship I'm not discounting those who like it. That's the fun of life, everyone likes different things. Criticising Cangel is not the same as criticising Cangel fans.
It has nothing to do with Cordelia / Doyle I just wrote it when you mentioned Cangel. And I just voiced my opinion that some maybe feel marginalized - generally speaking. I do not want to kick someones feet, but for some it may give the impression that you are not welcome when you are always trampling on a ship. In this case, namely Cangel. At least that's how it seems to me.
 

WillowFromBuffy

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Cordy/Doyle and Cordy/Angel are quite similar. There is build up, and then one person dies. The only difference is the time it takes.

Cordy/Doyle is short and tragic. Cordy/Angel is like when Willow pushes the bullet that killed Tara through Warren's chest in slow motion.
 

Bluebird

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It has nothing to do with Cordelia / Doyle I just wrote it when you mentioned Cangel. And I just voiced my opinion that some maybe feel marginalized - generally speaking. I do not want to kick someones feet, but for some it may give the impression that you are not welcome when you are always trampling on a ship. In this case, namely Cangel. At least that's how it seems to me.
As much as I'd like to think so, I only represent myself not this entire community. So if you don't feel welcome because of my post then that's a you problem. I don't know who you are, but I know who Cangel is and what problems I've always had with it since it aired, so almost 20 years I've had this opinion. It's not personal, it's my subjective opinion of fiction I viewed and have a right to comment on. It's really simple.
 

AngelsCordy

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If you have not understood, then I'm sorry. I do not know you personally and therefore I can not judge you, especially since we are here on the internet, and it has a very different tone than if we were sitting opposite each other.

No, I did not mean you at all as a person. And you do not have to apologize for anything. Everyone has the right to vote his opinion. What was written above was generally spoken everywhere you go and say you ship this and that one will be condemned immediately.
 
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