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Defend your favourite characters worst moments

sosa lola

Scooby
Joined
Nov 26, 2007
Messages
4,808
Age
36
Xander's "Kick his ass" line is blamed on jealousy and hatred of Angel, but I honestly think that's not what it was. Xander had no idea about Angel's connection to Acathla. All he knew was that Buffy, by her own admission, was unsure of whether she could bring herself to kill Angelus. As it was, she struggled to overpower him- if she held back, Angelus would have certainly killed her. Whether he had the right to keep this from her is another matter, but I think that his motivations were to protect her and save the world.
I agree. Xander had gone to Buffy with the sole purpose of telling her Willow's message. When he started with "Willow sent me to tell you..." Buffy cut him off with a hopeful tone that made him pause and reconsider, and then decided to go with "... kick his ass."

If we look at the situation clearly: Willow wasn't well enough to perform such a powerful spell, and Buffy had proved time and time again that she was not ready to kill Angel. Xander was most probably looking at it from this angle. He didn't have faith in either Willow or Buffy, and did what he thought was right.

I find it silly to assume he did it out of jealousy. If jealousy was all he needed to kill Angel, he would have agreed with Kendra when she demanded Angel should be killed, but he didn't agree with her. Ever since he lost his soul, Angel had done horrible things to the gang: killing Miss Calendar, attempting to kill Xander and Willow, kidnapping and torturing Giles, terrorizing Buffy, and now he was about to end the world. I can understand Xander getting scared of the outcome.

Though I wish the whole lie thing was solved in S3 with Buffy and Willow learning the truth then.
 
W

WillowFromBuffy

Guest
I find it silly to assume he did it out of jealousy.
I see this as one of the many examples on the show of situations where a character has legitimate reasons for doing something that inconveniently coincides with their personal bias. Xander has been so open about his jealousy regarding Angel that he's stuck with a permanent credibility problem.

It's like when Willow wants the Scoobies to let Wesley take Faith to England. She feels the need to open by saying it's not about Faith sleeping with Xander.
 

katmobile

Scooby
Joined
Jun 17, 2018
Messages
1,323
Age
48
I see this as one of the many examples on the show of situations where a character has legitimate reasons for doing something that inconveniently coincides with their personal bias. Xander has been so open about his jealousy regarding Angel that he's stuck with a permanent credibility problem.

It's like when Willow wants the Scoobies to let Wesley take Faith to England. She feels the need to open by saying it's not about Faith sleeping with Xander.
It's not Xander's decision to make Willow asked him to pass on a message to Buffy. It was hers to decide what she did with that info.
 

thrasherpix

Scooby
Joined
Mar 13, 2016
Messages
3,133
Age
37
Xander is being sanctimonious only HE knows what's right.
Reminds me of other characters, from Willow (casting spells to affect the wills of others even in season 3, and season 6 isn't even grey area anymore), to Buffy deciding she can keep unacceptable secrets (lying to them in the process) to deciding like Faith must die (yes, she can be understandable, but I can understand Xander's hatred of Angel which goes beyond jealousy) and by season 7 sees her allies as her flunkies, Giles who tried bossing the others around with a wagging finger to boot (though they rarely, if ever, heeded him), and I don't even know whether to bother listing some side characters like Cordelia or not. I could go into Riley, Angel, and Spike as well.
 
W

WillowFromBuffy

Guest
It's not Xander's decision to make Willow asked him to pass on a message to Buffy. It was hers to decide what she did with that info.
Xander is vehemently against ensouling Angel in Part 1, but he defers to Buffy and Willow. The plan fails. Angel gets away. Xander fights the attacking vampires and saves Cordelia.

In Part 2, he decides that enough is enough and that Angel isn't worth the risk, even if Buffy and Willow want that. Xander didn't even think Angel deserved saving in the first place.

It's underhanded and ignoble, but I am not sure what I would do myself if I was in his shoes. I think I would want it all to be over with as few losses as possible. There are many more lives in the balance than Angel's.
 

katmobile

Scooby
Joined
Jun 17, 2018
Messages
1,323
Age
48
Reminds me of other characters, from Willow (casting spells to affect the wills of others even in season 3, and season 6 isn't even grey area anymore), to Buffy deciding she can keep unacceptable secrets (lying to them in the process) to deciding like Faith must die (yes, she can be understandable, but I can understand Xander's hatred of Angel which goes beyond jealousy) and by season 7 sees her allies as her flunkies, Giles who tried bossing the others around with a wagging finger to boot (though they rarely, if ever, heeded him), and I don't even know whether to bother listing some side characters like Cordelia or not. I could go into Riley, Angel, and Spike as well.
Faith had actually poisoned Angel and it was to cure him. Buffy didn't treat her friends as flunkies she was sometimes hard on everyone because they were in a desperate fight. Not sure when you're thinking Spike did it but in the Empty Places a lot of people were right and wrong at the same time. I want to slap Anya, Kennedy and Rona and tell Wood to STFU but most people have points. Yeah I'll give you Willow but other people doing it doesn't exonerate Xander.
 
thrasherpix
thrasherpix
Doesn't exonerate him, but it does mean it's silly to hate only on him for it. Will disagree on other stuff as well, but too off topic.

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
Joined
Jul 29, 2016
Messages
8,435
Age
30
I am actually going to defend Xander lying to Buffy about Willow's message. I think he did the right thing in THAT MOMENT to ensure Buffy did her best to stop Angelus rather than holding out hope that Angel would return and trying to delay killing him which could result in her own death. HOWEVER, I do think the lie needed to be addressed within Season 3 which it wasn't.

I think a lot of the Xander dislike within the fandom stems from the fact that he never faces any consequences for his actions. Had Buffy found out about the lie and given Xander the cold shoulder for a bit, then I don't think the fans would hold the lie against him because he had to face the repercussions of his actions. However, when you have the lie, then Xander giving Buffy the cold shoulder when she returns from LA and berating her for skipping town because of "boy troubles", he's not exactly endearing himself to anyone.
 

GraceK

Grr Arrg
Joined
Nov 3, 2016
Messages
1,278
Age
33
Xander is being sanctimonious only HE knows what's right.
Ha that’s funny. That describes most of characters. Robin and Giles little bro team up in season 7 was sanctimonious as hell using that logic, only THEY knew what was right in regards to Spike and damn Buffy’s opinion.

Willow resurrected a human being on the absolute idea that she was correct, erased her girlfriends mind and her best friends minds, because SHE feels she was right.

Angel consistently makes decisions with no regard for anyone elses opinions because HE thinks he knows best.

At least Xander acted impulsively, Willow, Giles, Robin And Angel are calculated and premidated.

Only Xander knows hellfire for years afterwards from fans. 😂

@DeadlyDuo i agree with you. If he has had some more confrontations for his mistakes, it would be much more palatable for fans.
 
K
katmobile
I'm not disagreeing with you but it still doesn't make Xander right

Clem2001

Kitten's poker... yummy
Joined
Mar 27, 2019
Messages
4
Age
21
Xander in Hell's bells... Fear can be paralyzing and potentially ruining Anya's life outweighed any other consideration. I feel sorry for him.
 
G
GR83
Can't agree, he was a coward. Not only for leaving her during their wedding day, but for not voicing his hesitation earlier. He completely and publicly humiliated Anya.

GR83

Spuffy lover
Joined
Mar 24, 2019
Messages
27
Location
USA
Anya in selfless. Grief and pain pushed over the border. She has flaws but she truly loved Xander. Being a vengeance demon again allowed her to regain the power she lost when se was with Xander. Besides, Xander always mistreated her and despite appearances, she perfectly knew that they'd laugh at her expense.
 

vznspike

Potential
Joined
Feb 23, 2019
Messages
164
Age
29
Location
Ireland
Black Thorn
Spike AR scene... he didn't realise what he was doing until it was too late and the second he does it horrifies him, for me that's good enough, he spends a lot of time trying to cope with what he NEARLY done
 
Joined
Feb 23, 2019
Messages
754
Black Thorn
Spike AR scene... he didn't realise what he was doing until it was too late and the second he does it horrifies him, for me that's good enough, he spends a lot of time trying to cope with what he NEARLY done
I can't exactly defend his actions in any way, but I understand what he was thinking at the time. And at the end of the day he is a monster, the fact that he would hurt someone he loves felt expected because he could never truly be good.
 

Anyanka Bunny Slayer

Surfer Bucky 🏄‍♂️
Joined
Dec 17, 2015
Messages
8,139
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The 9th Circle of Hell
Black Thorn
After all, ever since she came back all she did was wish him hell and wanting him punished.
He left her at the altar. So he forfeited any right to say ANYTHING about what she did or who she slept with.

He's lucky that she didn't exact a truly gruesome act of vengeance. She was due that, at least.
 
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