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Defend your favourite characters worst moments

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
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She's a vengeance demon. He got off easy.
Xander was lucky that she was a vengeance demon as that meant she couldn't exact revenge upon him without someone wishing it. Had she not been a vengeance demon and Halfrek came calling, then Xander could've been in a world of trouble.
 

GraceK

Grr Arrg
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This was unpopular but hey we are defending our characters worst moments right?

Xander was right to leave Anya at the altar. Marrying her would have been a huge mistake. He wasn’t ready and it took him literal visions from hell to force him to face up to the fact that he would be a terrible husband with serious issues that stem from his family.
He would have hurt her worse in the long run.
What he did may have been terrible and hurtful, but it doesn’t absolve her from becoming a vengeance demon and anything she chose to do after that fact. Those actions are all on her. He’s responsible for his actions and whatever pain he caused her, Anya is responsible for her own.
 
Puppet
Puppet
Agree 100%
thetopher
thetopher
Yep. They're both responsible for their own choices.
Tank1978
Tank1978
Totally agree. As much as i feel for Anya she could have chosen to stay human and rebuild her life.

Name the Stars

You can't see the stars, love. That's the ceiling.
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Black Thorn
Dru is my favorite character. It's hard to say what her worst moment is (I would like to say she doesn't really have one ;)), but to be honest I think that none of her actions are truly her fault. She was tortured and groomed by Angelus, and it's very hard to tell if she has any true grasp on reality. She's a murderer, but I don't think that she has any concept of what good vs evil means anymore.
 
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Black Thorn
Dru is my favorite character. It's hard to say what her worst moment is (I would like to say she doesn't really have one ;)), but to be honest I think that none of her actions are truly her fault. She was tortured and groomed by Angelus, and it's very hard to tell if she has any true grasp on reality. She's a murderer, but I don't think that she has any concept of what good vs evil means anymore.
Yeah, with soulless vampires I don't even try to defend their actions. In their own twisted way they probably don't find it evil but they are demons that are really slaves to their nature. I feel bad for the human versions of themselves, especially Drusilla for what she had to endure as a human but that doesn't make me have any sympathy towards them as vampires as either they do evil and know it or they do not know the difference anymore.
 
Tank1978
Tank1978
Maybe Dru's worst moment was choosing to date the mucus demon or whatever it was. I mean ewww!!!!!

Joan the Vampire Slayer

Carpe Spuffy!
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What moment of your favourite character was the worst for them, and can you defend their actions? Also can you do it with only the knowledge of what happened up until that moment, so if something happened in season 1, can you talk about that character as they were only in season 1?
Spike is my favorite character, but honestly, I don't want to defend his choices. He's highly flawed, and has made some hopelessly bad choices, which hopefully he has learned from.

Have you only watched through Season 1, is that why you're asking? If so, then Spike hasn't shown up yet, so...
 

katmobile

Scooby
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Dru is my favorite character. It's hard to say what her worst moment is (I would like to say she doesn't really have one ;)), but to be honest I think that none of her actions are truly her fault. She was tortured and groomed by Angelus, and it's very hard to tell if she has any true grasp on reality. She's a murderer, but I don't think that she has any concept of what good vs evil means anymore.
I think that's what's so interesting about Dru she's tragic, fasinating and simultaneously both utterly sympathetic and irredeemably evil I think it's why no one can bear to kill her.

Spike is my favorite character, but honestly, I don't want to defend his choices. He's highly flawed, and has made some hopelessly bad choices, which hopefully he has learned from.

Have you only watched through Season 1, is that why you're asking? If so, then Spike hasn't shown up yet, so...
I think defence perhaps it's always about saying it's right or justified sometimes it's about saying you can understand why they did it. Most of my fav chracters do awful, shitty things.
 

katmobile

Scooby
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Haha no, I just meant that you shouldn't use their later actions to defend their worst moment
With respect why not? It often frames what they're doing then it can be a spur for redemption or something that helps you understand it in retrospect. Actions don't exist in isolation.
 

spikenbuffy

"Why can't I stay"
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Buffy :

- Beating Spike in an alley : Buffy was severelly depressed & to see her crying in hating herself so much in that scene makes me more sad for her than Spike as it's shocking for me to see my hero be in that state.

- Buffy in The Gift towards Dawn : Buffy have lost her mother not that long (even riley), Dawn was her sister and innocent, to lose Dawn would be TOO MUCH. Also, I'm sure Buffy would have let Dawn sacrifice herself anyway if she hadn't had the idea to sacrifice herself in the end.

Willow :

- Bringing back Buffy to life : Willow didn't know that Buffy was in heaven, Buffy could have been in hell plus in the end when Willow learnt that Buffy was in heaven, she regretted what she has done. It was painful for her to hear the truth from Buffy.

- Willow being arrogant towards Giles in Flooded : Well If I was Willow and would have succeeded to bring back someone from the dead, I would be arrogant too.


IMO.
 
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H
Heljar
Willow should have listened to Giles. Maybe if she learned to respect magic more she wouldn't have gone down the dark path that lead to her addiction.

white avenger

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Spike's my favourite character but there's not really a way to defend the AR.
Spike is my favorite character. But despite having re-watched the show several times, I cannot watch Seeing Red (as I cannot watch the "No, you don't, but thanks for saying it" of Chosen, I always skip 10 seconds).
Spike AR scene... he didn't realise what he was doing until it was too late and the second he does it horrifies him,
I can't exactly defend his actions in any way, but I understand what he was thinking at the time.
Yeah, with soulless vampires I don't even try to defend their actions.
Spike is my favorite character, but honestly, I don't want to defend his choices.
Ah, yes, "Seeing Red," and the attempted rape, the sin that so many fans will never forgive and our hero will never be able to live down.

This is my take on that matter.

From what we saw of William in his pre-vampire days, it's almost a certainty that he had no experience whatsoever of a sexual nature. Probably, all that he knew about the love of a man for a woman came from literature, most likely the tales of various knights and their ladies fair. The knight was the protector of his lady, her word was his law, her enemies were his enemies... you can get the idea. Then along came Drusilla, his dark princess, who transformed him into the heroic figure of his dreams, powerful, invincible, and dedicated to the welfare of his lady and her defense against all threats. We can only imagine what Dru taught Spike about love, but considering that she learned from Angelus, Angelus learned from Darla, and Darla was a professional who probably catered to whatever her customers were prepared to pay, it was most likely far from chaste, pure, gentle, or romantic by any human standards. (Just imagine what a couple of vampires, with virtually no soul for a moral compass, unlimited stamina and an enhanced healing factor would be capable of.) That is the experience, technique, and interpretation of love that Spike had to draw on when he began hes relationship with Buffy.

And, now, we come to Buffy at the beginning of Season 6. Newly resurrected from the dead, torn from the place of eternal rest, peace, and love that all mortals hope for in the Afterlife, thrown back into a world of harsh light, loud noise, pain, and responsibilities verging on overwhelming, especially for someone who was little more than a girl, herself. And, lest we forget, she may not have come back wrong, but she did come back different, whatever that might ultimately mean. She is thrown into this new environment without even the luxury of seeking help from her friends, because they are actually the source of her pain. That leaves one being in all the world who she feels can know her secrets, who she can totally be her (new) self around: Spike.

Maybe if Riley were still in town, or Angel were available, things would have been different, but we will never know (though that would make a great "what if" question to discuss in a thread of its own sometime) What we do know is that Spike was there, he was sympathetic and supportive, and he was the one who she could go to above all others. Then, in a night of violence, pain, anger, and probably some humiliation, Buffy finally got the release that her body was apparently crying out for in a moment of animal passion that literally brought the house down. And that night set the standard for everything that Buffy and Spike shared from then on, until another night, when the violence took on an entirely different meaning, and resulted in an event unique in all the world, from the beginning of time to the present. A vampire actually felt pain and regret for his actions, and willingly sought out his soul in an attempt to be a better man.

And I said all that to say this. There is no excuse for what Spike tried to do that night in that bathroom. No man should ever have the right to force himself upon a woman in that manner, when she clearly is unwilling. There is no excuse for the action, but there is, indeed, a reason, and a consequence for it. Without something that horrific to act as a catalyst, Spike, the soulless vampire, would never have had the motivation to become Spike, the better man, the Champion, and someone ultimately worthy of the love of a Slayer.

And that's my justification for that scene, and the closest that I can come to defending the indefensible. Spike had to go that low in order to rise to be the hero that he became in Season 7.

And I still wish that they could have come up with a different motivation, ANY different motivation, to explain why Spike chose to regain his soul.
 
thrasherpix
thrasherpix
I don't mind the AR in the story, in fact I'm glad the writers finally remembered he's a monster without a soul. It's the writers & directors I take issue with who rubbed it in our faces, and then were dismissive of it later.

Blaze

Let it Burn
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Black Thorn
Tara: actually probably the worst thing Tara did was leave Dawn with Buffy who was severely depresses and Willow who was for all intent and purposes a drug addict. However I can easily understand that because she herself was in an abusive relationship. And because of Dawn's status as the slayer's sister, she wouldn't have been safe elsewhere.
 

WillowFromBuffy

To be or not to evil.
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Tara: actually probably the worst thing Tara did was leave Dawn with Buffy who was severely depresses and Willow who was for all intent and purposes a drug addict. However I can easily understand that because she herself was in an abusive relationship. And because of Dawn's status as the slayer's sister, she wouldn't have been safe elsewhere.
I could not disagree more. I find Tara's actions beyond reproach. In fact, she's a bona fide saint.

First off, Tara couldn't stay. I mean, not unless she convinced Willow to move back to her parents, but while that may have been the optimal solution, I don't think Tara could have brought herself to suggest that.

Second, a lot of people are seriously depressed, and many of them are parents. Most are probably even descent parents. Tara couldn't decide that Buffy is an unfit guardian, just because Buffy is feeling some ennui.

Thirdly, Tara doesn't abandon Dawn. The pair have a day out in "Smashed." When they come back to find the house deserted, because Buffy and Willow have both gone out partying, Tara stays the night and makes breakfast the next day.

I am sure Tara would have intervened if things got too bad, possibly by notifying child protective services. And things aren't that bad for that long. Willow goes off magic only a couple of days after Tara leaves. Buffy's mental health goes up and down. She is not sleeping with Spike and talking euphemistically about suicide all the time. Things seem fairly normal between various crises.
 

Tank1978

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Not my fave character but one who grew on me in S7 Dawn. For me her worst moment was telling Buffy to leave her own house.

TBH I find it hard to justify dawn's stance on this. Some of the others I get as Buffy had fallen out with a lot of them over the season - Giles, Robin, Anya, Xander and the potentials just saw her as a dictator. But for dawn other than being overlooked (which she had all her existence anyway) or the visit from Joyce/the 1st telling her Buffy wouldn't choose her she didn't really have much reason to hold a grudge, less so than S5 and S6. Perhaps she got caught up in the moment and is only 16/17 so still very young but when buffy needed it dawn didn't have her sisters back.

So no, can't justify dawn on that one.
 

Blaze

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I could not disagree more. I find Tara's actions beyond reproach. In fact, she's a bona fide saint.

First off, Tara couldn't stay. I mean, not unless she convinced Willow to move back to her parents, but while that may have been the optimal solution, I don't think Tara could have brought herself to suggest that.

Second, a lot of people are seriously depressed, and many of them are parents. Most are probably even descent parents. Tara couldn't decide that Buffy is an unfit guardian, just because Buffy is feeling some ennui.

Thirdly, Tara doesn't abandon Dawn. The pair have a day out in "Smashed." When they come back to find the house deserted, because Buffy and Willow have both gone out partying, Tara stays the night and makes breakfast the next day.

I am sure Tara would have intervened if things got too bad, possibly by notifying child protective services. And things aren't that bad for that long. Willow goes off magic only a couple of days after Tara leaves. Buffy's mental health goes up and down. She is not sleeping with Spike and talking euphemistically about suicide all the time. Things seem fairly normal between various crises.
I'm not saying Tara should have stayed, in fact I clearly states that she was right to leave. You should NEVER stay in an abusive relationship.

I also never say that depression makes you unfit to be a parent, many parents are depressed and also amazing parents. However Buffy was showing signs of unfit parenting at that stage. And it wasn't just the depression, it was how she was after coming back from the dead. By the time Tara leaves, Buffy is still having major issues adapting back to being alive. I think she needed just as much support as Dawn herself did at that point. And no it was not Tara's responsibility, but I think she should have been more cautious leaving Dawn, and Tara was clearly a mother figure to her at that point

There was no right or wrong decision here, but the situation undoubtfully sucks for Dawn. And you can tell Dawn is heartbroken over it, even if they do hang in a later episode (and I'm glad they do, because it shows exactly why Tara needs to be in Dawn's life and how bad Buffy and Willow are at parenting at that point).

And while we're on topic, Giles worst decision was also leaving, but I can't even come up with an excuse for him, he messed up hard. Tara I fully empathize and agree with her decision to leave. I simply think that it was a bad situation with no good solution. Tara handled it best as she could.
 

WillowFromBuffy

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I don't know how much Tara could have done if she had stayed. Willow and Buffy both needs to reach that point where they want to get better, which Willow does in "Wrecked" and Buffy does in "Gone." Before that, I don't think there was much anyone could have done to help.

Giles shouldn't have abandoned Buffy or Dawn (who he has already abandoned once before with two barely-adults who are scraping by with no money and a barely working re-programmed sex robot as cover), but at least his reasoning is consistent with beliefs he has expressed in the past.
 

katmobile

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Ok I'm going to justify Dawn in Empty Places despite her not being my fav - she is actually trying to do the right thing and she's right about people needing to be united. The fact she tells Rona to shut up when Rona's being a bitch shows that Dawn isn't being vindictive towards her sister and Michelle's performance adds the nuance that Dawn hates doing it.
 

DeadlyDuo

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Ok I'm going to justify Dawn in Empty Places despite her not being my fav - she is actually trying to do the right thing and she's right about people needing to be united. The fact she tells Rona to shut up when Rona's being a bitch shows that Dawn isn't being vindictive towards her sister and Michelle's performance adds the nuance that Dawn hates doing it.
There are so many issues with the mutiny. The biggest being that it is led by non-scoobies yet the scoobies jump on the band wagon against Buffy. Another being that Buffy makes the point about how everybody can't have a say, yet immediately after she's gone and everyone is trying to talk at once, Xander makes exactly the same point (and Kennedy is once again trying to power grab).

It would be better if the scoobies held a meeting amongst themselves without Kennedy or Wood present.
 

Taake

Prophet of the Lord
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Black Thorn
What moment of your favourite character was the worst for them, and can you defend their actions? Also can you do it with only the knowledge of what happened up until that moment, so if something happened in season 1, can you talk about that character as they were only in season 1?
I’ve thought about it, and I think for me it is when Angel erases his friends memories to save Connor.

The defense is just that - Connor. He is trying to rescue his kid, I think most viewers can understand and defend that.

Yet, it can still be hard to defend. Partly because the price doesnt seem to bother him very much. (Also cause I’m not sure why the mind-wipe is entirely necessary.) I can understand why he does it, but he could’ve told his friends about it after, no? He has pretty hugely changed their past abd thus their present. (The writers didn’t want him to tell them, they wanted a dramatic reveal, but this doesn’t do Angel any favors).
 

katmobile

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I’ve thought about it, and I think for me it is when Angel erases his friends memories to save Connor.

The defense is just that - Connor. He is trying to rescue his kid, I think most viewers can understand and defend that.

Yet, it can still be hard to defend. Partly because the price doesnt seem to bother him very much. (Also cause I’m not sure why the mind-wipe is entirely necessary.) I can understand why he does it, but he could’ve told his friends about it after, no? He has pretty hugely changed their past abd thus their present. (The writers didn’t want him to tell them, they wanted a dramatic reveal, but this doesn’t do Angel any favors).
It's funny but the Still Dead review of Sacrifice has shown something I forgot which will be emphasised in season five - how burnt out Angel is by this point. In Sacrifice he basically says a paraphrased version of 'who needs a heart when a heart can be broken'. He was given this gift of Connor and it's just gone to crap, Darla's dead, Cordy's in a coma which it's not looking likely she's recover from and he has to stay away from Buffy. Perhaps it's why he snogs Buffy he's so happy someone greets him with a smile.
 
Taake
Taake
That's a good point, haven't really thought about that.
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