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Did anyone like Spike and Harmony as couple?.

Annie Hall

Bangel/Spuffy... Loving love
Joined
Apr 12, 2019
Messages
49
Age
39
No, never. Not even as a comic relief, she always annoyed me.
 

Stake fodder

Soulless
Joined
Feb 6, 2021
Messages
700
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Caught on a root
I think we were not supposed to like them as a couple. Harmony was just the foil for Spike's plot arcs. A big part of Spike's popularity in S2 was how sweet he was with Drusilla, so when he was brought back in S4, the writers wanted to alter that image. Thus with Harmony, he was abusive and lustful, everything opposite of romantic. He also acts dominating with her, which sets him up as a more effective antagonist to Angel in the Gem of Amarra plot, after having been subordinate to Angelus in S2.

In S5, they need her for Spike to play off of again. She won't put up with his abuse any longer, but he still demands sex in exchange for protection, and uses her for his fantasies about Buffy. This emphasizes how selfish and exploitative he still is, which in turn counteracts any idea of romance in his obsession for Buffy.

Mercedes MacNab's brings a certain pathos to her role as Spike's girlfriend, which makes us sympathize with her in these plot arcs. However, the writers seem to have forgotten this in AtS S5. Spike's treatment of Harmony is atrocious: using her for sex, dismissing her feelings, and generally treating her without a shred of decency or kindness. It's a major false note in an arc where he is supposedly developing his conscience/soul, and a serious error in judgment on the writers' part, in my opinion.
 
S

sweetiepie

Guest
I hate their relationship considering the abuse Harmony had to endured with Spike.
 

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
Joined
Jul 29, 2016
Messages
9,611
Age
31
but he still demands sex in exchange for protection

I disagree, or at the very least I think demand is the wrong word. Spike doesn't demand sex in exchange for protection, Harmony is the one that puts out she'd do "anything", Spike then repeats "anything?" as in hint hint without outright saying sex, whilst Harmony comes to that conclusion and happily agrees to the deal.
 

Stake fodder

Soulless
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Messages
700
Location
Caught on a root
I disagree, or at the very least I think demand is the wrong word. Spike doesn't demand sex in exchange for protection, Harmony is the one that puts out she'd do "anything", Spike then repeats "anything?" as in hint hint without outright saying sex, whilst Harmony comes to that conclusion and happily agrees to the deal.
Well, "requests" or "suggests," then. He just hints, but we know as well as Harmony what he is hinting at. She is fine with it, but I think we'd agree that Spike would protect Dru without that. The writers wanted to move Spike's character away from that sense of chivalry, and hinting at being FWB does that, as it is exploitative, even if both partners agree to be exploited.
 

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
Joined
Jul 29, 2016
Messages
9,611
Age
31
The writers wanted to move Spike's character away from that sense of chivalry

It's just another example of how Spuffy destroyed Spike's character in my opinion. The writers had to change his core values in order to put him in a position for Spuffy to happen rather than it happening organically.
 

Nothing13

Potential
Joined
May 16, 2021
Messages
109
Age
28
It is not Spuffy that destroyed Spike's character. The problems were writers that wanted Spike dead in season 2. An didn't like his popularity among fans. For this reason, Joss Whedon yelled against James Marsters for Spike's popularity.
In season 2 Spike's first appearance was based on the "ultimate cool", he was such a badass.
He was at the same time a tough badass and a "romantic knight" with his girlfriend Drusilla.
1) He was even equal/stronger than Buffy in his first appearance
2) He was stronger than Kendra in "What's my line part 2" (Kendra that before defeated Angel)

Writes, ignorantly, didn't think that such a character became so popular, Joss and others didn't like it and they didn't know how to do with him
They tried to destroy this image in order to make him unpleasant to viewers. From season 3-4 onward he becomes dumber and weaker. For example:
1) In Lovers walk he is a parody of himself

2) In "Harsh Light of Day" and "In the Dark" is an idiot that is abusive with his girlfriend Harmony.

They put him in a wheelchair because he should die, because they wanted Angel/Angelus as the main villain despite the inconsistency in relation to strength with Angel showed before in the season.

Angel was in the opposite situation, in Season 1 he was a "wimpire" that always got his ass handled also by common demons and he was always saved by Buffy (how in the hell he became stronger than season 2 Spike?).
In his show, he becomes a badass.
In season 1 also, Darla was pathetic, however, with Angel show she becomes tougher because they should create a new situation.

From season 6-7, writers resigned to Spike's popularity, so he becomes the main character with Buffy with his epic ending in the season 7 finale. Also Angel's season 5 was created in relation to Spike's popularity.
 
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AstridDante

Potential
Joined
May 4, 2020
Messages
355
Age
42
I really felt sorry for Harmony. She genuinely loved Spike (as far as soulless vampires go) and he used her for sex while he was between great loves. Saying that I presume after a while she knew what he was doing and was prepared to accept it and obviously she greatly enjoyed the sex too so my sympathy for her only goes so far
 

AstridDante

Potential
Joined
May 4, 2020
Messages
355
Age
42
I don’t think there is anything exploitative about FWB as long as both parties are on the same page and there is mutual respect. There was a lack of respect in Sparmony and one person felt stronger than the other. In that respect they are similar to Spuffy
 

Cheese Slices

A Bidet of Evil
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Messages
955
Location
France
Although it was clearly an unhealthy relationship that was mostly played for laughs anyway, I'm surprised on rewatch by the little things that make it kind of interesting. For example there are several instances where it's hinted that Harmony enjoys being dominant/violent in bed ("She'll only slap you around...and I can do that") and she is mostly not afraid to clearly speak her mind, berate him and demand stuff from him. I also find it kinda fun how weirdly domestic they are, with all the pink, girly decorations and the general way they interact with each other.
Mostly I think Spike is just bitter and taking it out on poor Harmony while subconsciously looking for a Buffy substitute, while Harmony is infatuated with him (I don't think her feelings towards him are that deep), but they have this weird, reluctant connection. Harmony certainly seems to have his number ("I knew you'd take it personally, you're so sensitive !").
So, yeah, it's mostly a terrible relationship, but when they bother to give Harmony an edge, it's pretty fun, and the actors have good chemistry.
 

Nothing13

Potential
Joined
May 16, 2021
Messages
109
Age
28
In my opinion, Spike-Harmony (despite the right symbolism/parallel of the show in relation to Yang-Yin/Blonde hair-Dark hair to Angel-Cordelia, or like Angel-Darla=Spike-Drusilla) was a pathetic relationship, that like DeadlyDuo said, ruined the "Original Season 2 Spike."
The writers of the show played for laughs many things that must not be played for laughs.
From the time of Buffy-Spike's relationship in Season 6-7 (that is a reverse of Buffy-Angel), for me, Spike was an already ruined character because of writers that didn't understand and like his appeal in the beginning.
I would have loved to see an evolution and a serious relationship between Buffy and the "Original Season 2 Spike": before unsouled like Season 2 but in the process to change and after souled.
For me, the "Original Season 2 Spike" died in "What's my line part 2" (like was originally intended)
 

KaitKat

Potential
Joined
Aug 9, 2021
Messages
213
Age
29
I actually always compared them to Buffy and Spike. It’s why I usually don’t fall for the lovesick guy deserves the girl mindset. The way he treats Harmony in Season 5 is exactly the same that Buffy treats him in Season 6. I’m sure I can find many examples of the theme of a lovesick guy chasing after some girl while he treats a “less deserving” girl like garbage in the Buffyverse. It’s actually nauseating, at least to me.


I think given the right circumstances Spike and Harmony could have been as great as Spike and Dru but like many couples in this universe that have potential they ended up being written as too toxic to root for.
 

ILLYRIAN

Druish Pervonian Wizard
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
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9,103
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65
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Toodyay
Black Thorn
And for all Harmony's faults there was that Blondie Bear moment! Ya gotta love her for that, not including Annie Hall that is.
 
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