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Question Did Buffy love Spike?

Was Buffy in love with Spike?

  • Yes - I watched while the show aired

    Votes: 28 23.5%
  • Yes - I watched after the show aired

    Votes: 30 25.2%
  • No - I watched while the show aired

    Votes: 25 21.0%
  • No - I watched after the show aired

    Votes: 22 18.5%
  • Maybe - I watched while the show aired

    Votes: 6 5.0%
  • Maybe - I watched after the show aired

    Votes: 8 6.7%

  • Total voters
    119

Mrs Gordo

Bangel extremist...
Joined
Jul 11, 2017
Messages
4,043
Location
Texas
Black Thorn
What I meant was that soulless Spike is better than soulless Angel
What do you base his on? Is it solely on behavior after the chip? If so we aren’t really playing on equal footing are we?

Angelus and Spike both killed, raped, and tortured (we saw Spike complicit in torture at least twice on the show WML/In the Dark). Spike tried to kill Buffy a number of times, Angelus killed her teacher. We know Spike slaughtered an orphanage and Angelus killed kids too. Angelus wanted to suck the world into hell, Spike wanted to continue to eat/kill people on this plane of existence (happy meals with legs) while watching Manchester United. So not sure how you can make the argument that Angelus was 100x worse than Spike. Angelus was more artful with his evil, but Spike enjoyed the crunch and got off on his kills including Slayers so he was no Boy Scout. Not even compared to Angelus. And he did that all on his own for a hundred years.

Bottom line is we don’t know how Angelus would have reacted with a chip. I have my theories but ultimately the story never went there and we can’t compare apples to oranges and call it a day.
 
badsister
badsister
Man U UGH

RachM

I'm busy. I'm brooding.
Joined
Nov 8, 2017
Messages
1,503
Location
Australia
It's all but stated though: Dru: 'you want to hurt her, just like you hurt me.'
Either way, my original point still stands, he never got around to actually turning her, plus he pretty much abandoned that plan when he decided to unleash Acathla.
 

DayDreamer27

Potential
Joined
Feb 11, 2018
Messages
206
I am in the camp that believes Buffy didn't love Spike.

Honestly from the time he was chipped, I think she tolerated him as a comrade and valuable ally for fighting other demons & monsters. But there was no love or friendship. And any time she got close to respecting him, he did something to ruin it and take her back to square one with him.

Then season 6 happened. She was depressed, and started up a **** buddy relationship, using sex as a temp high to forget her issues for a min. And honestly, Spike was the only option for the kind of sex she needed to feel anything. It seems the sex had to be very rough & kinky get her off. Then once it was done and the high comes down, her shame sets in at her actions. The degrading things she's doing with someone she doesn't even love.

She says she has feelings for him, but they're not love because she doesn't trust him enough for that. And I believe it. His actions toward her throughout that relationship where he pushed boundaries or violated her consent showed he can't be trusted. And without full trust, there's no true intimacy. Look at how Buffy is with Angel, or even Riley. She can lie in bed with them and just talk, smile, have good thoughts. Because she knows they care for her, and wouldn't intentionally do anything that would violate her.

Look at this scene in IWRY
Happy Buffy.png
Buffy is lying naked in Angel's arms with a dreamy smile on her face. Damn near happiest she's ever been. lol

Then compare to how she is post coitus with Spike. The first night after they brought down a house, she wakes up and immediately covers herself with his coat to hide herself. A form of distance and lack of comfort and trust with a partner. After another bout of sex in his Crypt, he's fully naked, but she's covered herself with the rug of all things. She has some casual conversation with him, which he points out. Then she goes to get dressed, and crawls under the rug to try finding her underwear. There's no post sex cuddling. After the bang, she instantly distances herself.

She tells him to his face that he's convenient, then later says they don't have a thing, they have this . Even depressed, would Buffy just use & dismiss someone she loved? Telling them that she's sleeping with them out of convenience because their first choice is gone? Or that they don't have anything other than sex?

Not to mention how she looks at him. Even during their sex scenes, her eyes are dead. Look at how bored she looks when he's getting it during her lunch break.
Bored.png
Looks like she's just trying to pass some time, rather than the look he'd have with a man she actually loved

It was sex she was using to feel something, and Spike was providing it. The SEX made her feel good for a while. Not him. He made her feel worse about herself with his emotional manipulation. She says sometimes she likes him. A far car from "I love you Spike." Then Spike asks "But you like what I do to you?" She doesn't answer, because she's ashamed to admit it herself, but that was the case. She liked what he could provide more than any deep feelings for him as a person.

Buffy was using Spike. And she said she didn't love him a good few times. I see nothing that indicates she's lying.lol

What do you base his on? Is it solely on behavior after the chip? If so we aren’t really playing on equal footing are we?

Angelus and Spike both killed, raped, and tortured (we saw Spike complicit in torture at least twice on the show WML/In the Dark). Spike tried to kill Buffy a number of times, Angelus killed her teacher. We know Spike slaughtered an orphanage and Angelus killed kids too. Angelus wanted to suck the world into hell, Spike wanted to continue to eat/kill people on this plane of existence (happy meals with legs) while watching Manchester United. So not sure how you can make the argument that Angelus was 100x worse than Spike. Angelus was more artful with his evil, but Spike enjoyed the crunch and got off on his kills including Slayers so he was no Boy Scout. Not even compared to Angelus. And he did that all on his own for a hundred years.

Bottom line is we don’t know how Angelus would have reacted with a chip. I have my theories but ultimately the story never went there and we can’t compare apples to oranges and call it a day.
Also add the fact Spike's chip is like Angel's soul.

By that I mean the arguments against Angel. Some saying Spike came to love Buffy even without a soul, then went to go get a soul for her (gag). But Angelus didn't, and had to be cursed with a soul to be good.

Spike asked for his soul back. But he sure as Hell didn't ask to be chipped. And it was that chip that allowed him to develop any kind of prolonged relationship with Buffy. If not for that chip, he would've bitten Willow in her dorm when she unknowingly invited him in. She'd have been killed or turned, and Buffy would've staked Spike without question. She was intent on doing it in season 3, but Angel stopped her & reminded her they needed Spike to tell where Willow & Xander were.

That chip making him a non-threat to innocents is the only thing that made Buffy tolerant of him. And he wasn't fighting for the side of good for the sake of it. He was doing it because the chip only allowed him to kill other monsters. Being chipped gave Spike chances that he wouldn't have had himself if he could do whatever he wanted
 
Last edited:

Anyanka Bunny Slayer

Satanic Panda
Joined
Dec 17, 2015
Messages
8,658
Location
Soviet Union 2.0
Black Thorn
I am in the camp that believes Buffy didn't love Spike.

Honestly from the time he was chipped, I think she tolerated him as a comrade and valuable ally for fighting other demons & monsters. But there was no love or friendship. And any time she got close to respecting him, he did something to ruin it and take her back to square one with him.

Then season 6 happened. She was depressed, and started up a **** buddy relationship, using sex as a temp high to forget her issues for a min. And honestly, Spike was the only option for the kind of sex she needed to feel anything. It seems the sex had to be very rough & kinky get her off. Then once it was done and the high comes down, her shame sets in at her actions. The degrading things she's doing with someone she doesn't even love.

She says she has feelings for him, but they're not love because she doesn't trust him enough for that. And I believe it. His actions toward her throughout that relationship where he pushed boundaries or violated her consent showed he can't be trusted. And without full trust, there's no true intimacy. Look at how Buffy is with Angel, or even Riley. She can lie in bed with them and just talk, smile, have good thoughts. Because she knows they care for her, and wouldn't intentionally do anything that would violate her.

Look at this scene in IWRY
View attachment 10814
Buffy is lying naked in Angel's arms with a dreamy smile on her face. Damn near happiest she's ever been. lol

Then compare to how she is post coitus with Spike. The first night after they brought down a house, she wakes up and immediately covers herself with his coat to hide herself. A form of distance and lack of comfort and trust with a partner. After another bout of sex in his Crypt, he's fully naked, but she's covered herself with the rug of all things. She has some casual conversation with him, which he points out. Then she goes to get dressed, and crawls under the rug to try finding her underwear. There's no post sex cuddling. After the bang, she instantly distances herself.

She tells him to his face that he's convenient, then later says they don't have a thing, they have this . Even depressed, would Buffy just use & dismiss someone she loved? Telling them that she's sleeping with them out of convenience because their first choice is gone? Or that they don't have anything other than sex?

Not to mention how she looks at him. Even during their sex scenes, her eyes are dead. Look at how bored she looks when he's getting it during her lunch break.
View attachment 10815
Looks like she's just trying to pass some time, rather than the look he'd have with a man she actually loved

It was sex she was using to feel something, and Spike was providing it. The SEX made her feel good for a while. Not him. He made her feel worse about herself with his emotional manipulation. She says sometimes she likes him. A far car from "I love you Spike." Then Spike asks "But you like what I do to you?" She doesn't answer, because she's ashamed to admit it herself, but that was the case. She liked what he could provide more than any deep feelings for him as a person.

Buffy was using Spike. And she said she didn't love him a good few times. I see nothing that indicates she's lying.lol



Also add the fact Spike's chip is like Angel's soul.

By that I mean the arguments against Angel. Some saying Spike came to love Buffy even without a soul, then went to go get a soul for her (gag). But Angelus didn't, and had to be cursed with a soul to be good.

Spike asked for his soul back. But he sure as Hell didn't ask to be chipped. And it was that chip that allowed him to develop any kind of prolonged relationship with Buffy. If not for that chip, he would've bitten Willow in her dorm when she unknowingly invited him in. She'd have been killed or turned, and Buffy would've staked Spike without question. She was intent on doing it in season 3, but Angel stopped her & reminded her they needed Spike to tell where Willow & Xander were.

That chip making him a non-threat to innocents is the only thing that made Buffy tolerant of him. And he wasn't fighting for the side of good for the sake of it. He was doing it because the chip only allowed him to kill other monsters. Being chipped gave Spike chances that he wouldn't have had himself if he could do whatever he wanted
Exactly!!! I agree with every single word of this. 😎
 

Cheese Slices

A Bidet of Evil
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Messages
737
Location
France
To anyone that feels like I've attacked them or jumped on them or whatever, my apologies. I'm also not taking up the Angelus debate because it's off-topic and that I feel like it's getting into a weird place, which would fit better into a shiny new thread.

Anyway, to answer OP : I do believe Buffy loved Spike. There isn't any particular moment to pinpoint, because falling in love is gradual and there isn't any single/special moment that is going to make you love someone. It just happens as you get to know them, with time.

There are many moments that convey Buffy's love for Spike, but I'm going to pick only one since I'm a lazy mess. Now, this moment is very subtle and cryptic so bear with me :

tumblr_nfv45wQ6Xn1u4ifayo1_250.gif

There.
 
badsister
badsister
i thought you will choose one from s11 haha

Dora

Scooby
Joined
Apr 1, 2016
Messages
1,104
Age
54
I am in the camp that believes Buffy didn't love Spike.

Honestly from the time he was chipped, I think she tolerated him as a comrade and valuable ally for fighting other demons & monsters. But there was no love or friendship. And any time she got close to respecting him, he did something to ruin it and take her back to square one with him.

Then season 6 happened. She was depressed, and started up a **** buddy relationship, using sex as a temp high to forget her issues for a min. And honestly, Spike was the only option for the kind of sex she needed to feel anything. It seems the sex had to be very rough & kinky get her off. Then once it was done and the high comes down, her shame sets in at her actions. The degrading things she's doing with someone she doesn't even love.

She says she has feelings for him, but they're not love because she doesn't trust him enough for that. And I believe it. His actions toward her throughout that relationship where he pushed boundaries or violated her consent showed he can't be trusted. And without full trust, there's no true intimacy. Look at how Buffy is with Angel, or even Riley. She can lie in bed with them and just talk, smile, have good thoughts. Because she knows they care for her, and wouldn't intentionally do anything that would violate her.

Look at this scene in IWRY
View attachment 10814
Buffy is lying naked in Angel's arms with a dreamy smile on her face. Damn near happiest she's ever been. lol

Then compare to how she is post coitus with Spike. The first night after they brought down a house, she wakes up and immediately covers herself with his coat to hide herself. A form of distance and lack of comfort and trust with a partner. After another bout of sex in his Crypt, he's fully naked, but she's covered herself with the rug of all things. She has some casual conversation with him, which he points out. Then she goes to get dressed, and crawls under the rug to try finding her underwear. There's no post sex cuddling. After the bang, she instantly distances herself.

She tells him to his face that he's convenient, then later says they don't have a thing, they have this . Even depressed, would Buffy just use & dismiss someone she loved? Telling them that she's sleeping with them out of convenience because their first choice is gone? Or that they don't have anything other than sex?

Not to mention how she looks at him. Even during their sex scenes, her eyes are dead. Look at how bored she looks when he's getting it during her lunch break.
View attachment 10815
Looks like she's just trying to pass some time, rather than the look he'd have with a man she actually loved

It was sex she was using to feel something, and Spike was providing it. The SEX made her feel good for a while. Not him. He made her feel worse about herself with his emotional manipulation. She says sometimes she likes him. A far car from "I love you Spike." Then Spike asks "But you like what I do to you?" She doesn't answer, because she's ashamed to admit it herself, but that was the case. She liked what he could provide more than any deep feelings for him as a person.

Buffy was using Spike. And she said she didn't love him a good few times. I see nothing that indicates she's lying.lol



Also add the fact Spike's chip is like Angel's soul.

By that I mean the arguments against Angel. Some saying Spike came to love Buffy even without a soul, then went to go get a soul for her (gag). But Angelus didn't, and had to be cursed with a soul to be good.

Spike asked for his soul back. But he sure as Hell didn't ask to be chipped. And it was that chip that allowed him to develop any kind of prolonged relationship with Buffy. If not for that chip, he would've bitten Willow in her dorm when she unknowingly invited him in. She'd have been killed or turned, and Buffy would've staked Spike without question. She was intent on doing it in season 3, but Angel stopped her & reminded her they needed Spike to tell where Willow & Xander were.

That chip making him a non-threat to innocents is the only thing that made Buffy tolerant of him. And he wasn't fighting for the side of good for the sake of it. He was doing it because the chip only allowed him to kill other monsters. Being chipped gave Spike chances that he wouldn't have had himself if he could do whatever he wanted
Yep totally agree , Buffy never loved Spike and in Chosen when she said she did ....Spike knew she did not
 

LalaLand2015

Townie
Joined
May 11, 2018
Messages
3
Age
25
Way too much shame going around here. Poor Buffy, being saddled with all that shame just because she is shackled to Spike's storyline. Ashamed to be with him in S6, ashamed after attempted rape, ashamed in S7 because of the prior 'relationship'. Good grief that's unhealthy.


She also told Angel that Spike was not her boyfriend. So which is the truth? Can't be both. He either is or he isn't.


Buffy is not a prize. Why is she always talked about like she is a prize to be won by some people?
If she couldn't admit to her friends that she and Spike had a thing, she probably wouldn't tell Angel who she thinks so highly of being the love of her life, that she was involved with Spike. Buffy isn't a prize. Not saying she is. I'm just saying Spike was in love with her. If you've ever been in love wouldn't you want to be with them?
 

Serenityrose

Townie
Joined
Apr 24, 2018
Messages
73
Age
36
It depends on what time period you're referring to. I think by season 7 she certainly did. There's a lot of instances but I think The Killer in Me/First Date were great indicators to me. Buffy opting to get Spike's chip removed, not just repair it. She believed in him, even enough to have him around the potentials, her friends, and Dawn. Also the fight scene in First Date. Very telling how she ran directly to Spike.

Per the shooting script:
'Buffy goes to Spike. Not looking around to check on Wood or Xander. Her first priority is to check Spike's injuries, to make sure he's alright. Spike is doing the same to her..looking into her eyes, it's a brief moment but very intimate.'

Also if you believe Joss he says Buffy loves Spike when she tells him she loves him. Per the Chosen commentary:
'The great Marsters with a chemistry with Buffy that is just completely different from Angel's, and different than David's, and yet works very, very well. He's more on Buffy's level. He's more... Their vulnerabilities come out, and I don't just mean as characters, but as actors around each other. And that really works, it works on a very different level. Their relationship has clearly been through a lot - much more, in fact, than her relationship with Angel, in a way. And you feel that history with these two, and they bring it to the set every time they come to work and that's why we still came to work, because they did.

I thought this was a sort of romantic image, the two of them. We actually did it with real fire, but their hands were all gelled up and you could tell, so this was added in CGI and it looks beautiful. I thought it was a nice comment on their relationship. But what I basically told [Sarah and James] was: "Play the romance. Be proud of him. Love him when you say you love him. Love her when you say she doesn't love you. Forget about the crumbling world. For that period of time, it doesn't exist." It's a cinematic trick, but it's a necessary emotional one.'

I agree with him. :)
 

AstridDante

Potential
Joined
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Messages
286
Age
42
In my view Buffy was starting to fall in love with Spike towards end of Season 7. They always were physically attracted even in final season, she refers to him as hot a number of occasions. I think the scene in Potential (graveyard) showed it also. In Seeing Red, she admitted she had feelings for him and it was clear they had passion but there was no trust or true intimacy and that’s what was missing and what they found in Season 7. I think she may not have been ready to say those words to speak and it was her last opportunity. However, that doesn’t negate her truth. Also Joss said the scene was romantic and she loved him. The flaming hands to me spoke more about their relationship than the love declaration. Spike’s denial of her loving him to me is more about how he sees himself as not worthy. You can see in Season 7 since he got his soul the issues he is having with himself. I also think on some level, again due to his own insecurity that he felt Buffy loved Angel and consequently couldn’t be in love with him but the reality was she loved/was in love with both. Just my opinion

It depends on what time period you're referring to. I think by season 7 she certainly did. There's a lot of instances but I think The Killer in Me/First Date were great indicators to me. Buffy opting to get Spike's chip removed, not just repair it. She believed in him, even enough to have him around the potentials, her friends, and Dawn. Also the fight scene in First Date. Very telling how she ran directly to Spike.

Per the shooting script:
'Buffy goes to Spike. Not looking around to check on Wood or Xander. Her first priority is to check Spike's injuries, to make sure he's alright. Spike is doing the same to her..looking into her eyes, it's a brief moment but very intimate.'

Also if you believe Joss he says Buffy loves Spike when she tells him she loves him. Per the Chosen commentary:
'The great Marsters with a chemistry with Buffy that is just completely different from Angel's, and different than David's, and yet works very, very well. He's more on Buffy's level. He's more... Their vulnerabilities come out, and I don't just mean as characters, but as actors around each other. And that really works, it works on a very different level. Their relationship has clearly been through a lot - much more, in fact, than her relationship with Angel, in a way. And you feel that history with these two, and they bring it to the set every time they come to work and that's why we still came to work, because they did.

I thought this was a sort of romantic image, the two of them. We actually did it with real fire, but their hands were all gelled up and you could tell, so this was added in CGI and it looks beautiful. I thought it was a nice comment on their relationship. But what I basically told [Sarah and James] was: "Play the romance. Be proud of him. Love him when you say you love him. Love her when you say she doesn't love you. Forget about the crumbling world. For that period of time, it doesn't exist." It's a cinematic trick, but it's a necessary emotional one.'

I agree with him. :)
I agree also. It’s a beautiful scene. The flaming hands get me every time.

I think she used him in a loveless sort of way at first and then started to have feelings for him until the (damn, why did you do that Spike!) near-rape incident. I think she loved him in a way by the end of season 7 but she never loved him like he loved her. It's very clear from Touched that Spike truly loved Buffy but at that stage she kind of just respected and valued him.
I disagree on Season 7 interpretation. Especially the later episodes, the scenes in Touched and Chosen were very tender with romantic undertones even if they were not physically involved. The flaming hands which was meant to be a comment on their relationship was very romantic imagery for that scene. I don’t think it was as simple as respecting or valuing him. There was too much history and a complicated one at that. I think on some level earlier in Season Buffy was trying to sort through her feelings for him which were confused. See Him (Dawn convo) and in Potential ( convo with Amanda) it sounded like Buffy when indirectly talking about herself and Spike was trying to convince herself it was over. This was after their ‘moment’ in the graveyard in same episode. In Never Leave Me, when Buffy said she wasn’t ready for him not to be there, it wasn’t about his value as a fighter, it was personal and I think there was a romantic undercurrent. Hence why Spike asked what about the principal to which Buffy just looked at him. Lastly, while I think she was starting to fall in love with him by end of Season 7, I agree with you that I don’t think she was on his level as to how he loved her
 
BuffyBot22
BuffyBot22
I like this perspective. Gives a different insight for the characters for me.

Serenityrose

Townie
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Messages
73
Age
36
Also on the discussion of loving someone vs being in love.

JW: In time what went on with Spike and Buffy was very textured and complicated". The relationship, as it evolved in Season 7, "has a romantic/sexual angle but not a physical one"....Buffy was in love with Spike the moment their hands clasped. -- Joss Whedon (San Diego Convention 2003)


I am curious how people differentiate between loving someone and being in love with someone.
For me it's the romantic element. EI: I love my brother, I'm in love with my boyfriend.

Joss has said that in season 7 the Spuffy relationship was romantic
"..To see a very grown up and romantic and confusing relationship that isn't about power, but actually genuinely beautiful between two people in the form of Buffy and Spike. "


I guess ultimately it all comes down to if you saw what Joss said he created. I did.
 

AstridDante

Potential
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Messages
286
Age
42
Also on the discussion of loving someone vs being in love.

JW: In time what went on with Spike and Buffy was very textured and complicated". The relationship, as it evolved in Season 7, "has a romantic/sexual angle but not a physical one"....Buffy was in love with Spike the moment their hands clasped. -- Joss Whedon (San Diego Convention 2003)


I am curious how people differentiate between loving someone and being in love with someone.
For me it's the romantic element. EI: I love my brother, I'm in love with my boyfriend.

Joss has said that in season 7 the Spuffy relationship was romantic
"..To see a very grown up and romantic and confusing relationship that isn't about power, but actually genuinely beautiful between two people in the form of Buffy and Spike. "


I guess ultimately it all comes down to if you saw what Joss said he created. I did.
I think their relationship as portrayed in Season 7 was very confusing and to my mind the romantic undertone was evident in so many scenes a running theme but it is very much an undercurrent to everything else that was going on. After all Buffy was in the fight of her life. However what sealed it for me was the way they held each other in Touched and stared into each other’s eyes. Also, the romantic imagery of flaming hands. All of it just works for me as a viewer so in my view Joss succeeded in what he was trying to show
 

katmobile

Scooby
Joined
Jun 17, 2018
Messages
1,476
Age
49
My credibility? Because Joss has said it himself? Your logic does not follow earth logic. Look it up yourself, Whedon has called parts of S8 fanfic.


Why do I have to do your work? I don't even care about the comics and I know this very basic stuff. It's called interviews. It's not a straw man or whatever you want to call it when it came from the creator himself.
It's called proving your point and I'm sorry if you're quoting something you need to cite it. That's not 'doing someone's work for them' its basic practice - academia crucifies you if you don't quote your sources.

First, it's never stated in canon that this is what Angelus was planning to do. It's a fan theory (and a good one, at that, it definitely does make sense) but the point is, he never got that far in the narrative. Also, note the word "planning". If I was planning to murder someone but never got around to it, would I be charged with murder? No.

Complicit was the wrong word for me to use, I meant to indicate that both Angelus and Spike try to kill Buffy several times over Season 2. Their actions are completely on par. So, again, by your own logic, Spike victimised Buffy in Season 2 (and, again, I don't believe either vamp victimised her that season).

You were the one who jumped on my post in the first place and I never asked you to "justify yourself", I simply refuted your arguments with my own, which is what happens during debates on posting boards.

I never said that Buffy specifically blames herself for the AR. But she does accept blame where it wasn't warranted, and allows Spike to blame her for her actions while avoiding blame for his own.

You are, once again, making assumptions about me and my views. Nowhere did I ever say I did not want problematic aspects in shows, characters or pairings. Problematic aspects are fine. What isn't fine is when shows condone problematic aspects or assign blame where it should be placed. Exploring abusive relationships is fine, it needs to happen to show people the dangers of these relationships. But a show should not condone a victim returning to their abuser, which BtVS does.

Nice dig at the end. Again, no where do I ever say that I want "saintly characters". I just want characters who display abusive behaviour to be held accountable for their actions and not have their victims' pain and trauma shoved aside and ignored.
Sorry Rachel but yes it is stated what Angelus wants to do when Dru says 'you want to hurt her like you hurt me' that's pretty explicit.
 

katmobile

Scooby
Joined
Jun 17, 2018
Messages
1,476
Age
49
GQ
I am in the camp that believes Buffy didn't love Spike.

Honestly from the time he was chipped, I think she tolerated him as a comrade and valuable ally for fighting other demons & monsters. But there was no love or friendship. And any time she got close to respecting him, he did something to ruin it and take her back to square one with him.

Then season 6 happened. She was depressed, and started up a **** buddy relationship, using sex as a temp high to forget her issues for a min. And honestly, Spike was the only option for the kind of sex she needed to feel anything. It seems the sex had to be very rough & kinky get her off. Then once it was done and the high comes down, her shame sets in at her actions. The degrading things she's doing with someone she doesn't even love.

She says she has feelings for him, but they're not love because she doesn't trust him enough for that. And I believe it. His actions toward her throughout that relationship where he pushed boundaries or violated her consent showed he can't be trusted. And without full trust, there's no true intimacy. Look at how Buffy is with Angel, or even Riley. She can lie in bed with them and just talk, smile, have good thoughts. Because she knows they care for her, and wouldn't intentionally do anything that would violate her.

Look at this scene in IWRY
View attachment 10814
Buffy is lying naked in Angel's arms with a dreamy smile on her face. Damn near happiest she's ever been. lol

Then compare to how she is post coitus with Spike. The first night after they brought down a house, she wakes up and immediately covers herself with his coat to hide herself. A form of distance and lack of comfort and trust with a partner. After another bout of sex in his Crypt, he's fully naked, but she's covered herself with the rug of all things. She has some casual conversation with him, which he points out. Then she goes to get dressed, and crawls under the rug to try finding her underwear. There's no post sex cuddling. After the bang, she instantly distances herself.

She tells him to his face that he's convenient, then later says they don't have a thing, they have this . Even depressed, would Buffy just use & dismiss someone she loved? Telling them that she's sleeping with them out of convenience because their first choice is gone? Or that they don't have anything other than sex?

Not to mention how she looks at him. Even during their sex scenes, her eyes are dead. Look at how bored she looks when he's getting it during her lunch break.
View attachment 10815
Looks like she's just trying to pass some time, rather than the look he'd have with a man she actually loved

It was sex she was using to feel something, and Spike was providing it. The SEX made her feel good for a while. Not him. He made her feel worse about herself with his emotional manipulation. She says sometimes she likes him. A far car from "I love you Spike." Then Spike asks "But you like what I do to you?" She doesn't answer, because she's ashamed to admit it herself, but that was the case. She liked what he could provide more than any deep feelings for him as a person.

Buffy was using Spike. And she said she didn't love him a good few times. I see nothing that indicates she's lying.lol



Also add the fact Spike's chip is like Angel's soul.

By that I mean the arguments against Angel. Some saying Spike came to love Buffy even without a soul, then went to go get a soul for her (gag). But Angelus didn't, and had to be cursed with a soul to be good.

Spike asked for his soul back. But he sure as Hell didn't ask to be chipped. And it was that chip that allowed him to develop any kind of prolonged relationship with Buffy. If not for that chip, he would've bitten Willow in her dorm when she unknowingly invited him in. She'd have been killed or turned, and Buffy would've staked Spike without question. She was intent on doing it in season 3, but Angel stopped her & reminded her they needed Spike to tell where Willow & Xander were.

That chip making him a non-threat to innocents is the only thing that made Buffy tolerant of him. And he wasn't fighting for the side of good for the sake of it. He was doing it because the chip only allowed him to kill other monsters. Being chipped gave Spike chances that he wouldn't have had himself if he could do whatever he wanted
You're not comparing like with like if you used the image from Touched I'd have more respect for your arguement.

@katmobile please look at the dates of the posting you're quoting, they are several years old!
If there's an expiry date on comments I'll honour that.
 
nightshade
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No, you just are unlikely to get a reply.

Buffy Summers

Yataro
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Sineya
nightshade No, you just are unlikely to get a reply.
And maybe it would be worth being a little less abrasive, so that others might join in even if the original posters aren't around?

Also, please stop double posting. You have been asked many many times. Here are instructions in addition to the ones I've previously pm'd to you.

 

Angel6

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Not in love with for me. She grows to love him as a comrade and he is a very important confidant and ally for her over a difficult period. I’ve certainly had someone like that in my life and though she’s very important to me I wasn’t truly in love with her, but of course there is love there. It’s a limited word.
 

AstridDante

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To me she was only starting to fall in love with Spike at end of season 7. She had previously admitted to having romantic feelings for him in season 6 in Seeing Red, there was clearly passion desire etc but in Buffy’s own words, she said she couldn’t trust him enough for it to be love. The trust and closeness came in Season 7. The physical attraction, even though not acted on, was also still there in Season 7 (a number of times Buffy referred to him as ‘hot’) the connection between them is still there, as is seen and commented by the other characters in Season 7. However I will say to my mind she had so much to deal with in Season 7 what with the end of the world, final battle etc I don’t think she was ready to act on her these feelings or commit to a relationship at this point nor do I think she would have said those words to Spike had it not been her last chance to say them. I also think she was in a bit of a conundrum as she continued to love Angel and Spike knew this, maybe that’s why he couldn’t accept what she said. However I don’t think her love for one man excluded her love for the other. It was a very confusing romantic situation which is part of why she didn’t want to have to deal with having them both there at the same time
 
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