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Did Fred ruin the show?

Willow Tara

Grr Argh - aka WhedonverseFan
Joined
Jun 3, 2018
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Sunnydale (Germany)
Sineya
Now that you say that there were a couple of things Anya says that could play into a Anya/Willow ship. There was something when they were doing the map spell.
Yes Anya sais after the spell: It did get a little sexy didn't it?
And in Tough Love Willow sais she can't sleep without Tara and Anya sais: e869fdd1f7121bcd913be43064585167.jpg
PgwL.gif
(I don't ship Anya and Willow... I just immediately had to think of these two scenes. Didn't find a picture of the spell thing in season 7.)
 

FaithLehane16

"Tact is not saying true stuff. I'll pass."
Joined
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No. If anything she made the show more interesting. She made better sense as a cast member and character to the show than Charisma/Cordelia did. She proved to be very useful to the team. Fred DIDN'T ruin the show.
 

AlphaFoxtrot

Scooby
Joined
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Messages
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39
I would say Angel was ruined by 1. Ad-Hoc Casting and characterization. 2. No sense of series setting or direction, and 3. Season 4. Fred was a different character from Cordie and Willow, and at least had nice legs, and gave us "A Hole in the World," of the best episodes of the series. As for the relationships, well, it's Buffy. Shippers are a big deal in this fanbase. You can't get rid of the relationships any more than you can get rid of the lesbians in season 6.
 

ChaseRules

When it comes to dating I the Slayer.
Joined
Apr 23, 2012
Messages
7,252
Sineya
I think Fred was a very good part of the show . She did a lot more for it then Cordelia did . I love Cordelia but by the time Fred came around the writers were lost ion what to do with Cordelia & it showed . I really liked Fred myself .

And for the record Fred & Willow would have made a great couple .
 

BattleofDuty

Townie
Joined
Dec 15, 2018
Messages
20
Age
24
She made Season 4 of AtS redeemable, losing Fred in that series would just destroy it as we had Angel being Angelus... Cordy who wasn't Cordy, Wesley 2.0 and Gunn, who was fastly losing himself in the team. So I would say no.
 
Mr Trick
Mr Trick
Good point.

CHK DeWilSon

A BAngel fan. Always.
Joined
Apr 8, 2017
Messages
173
Age
50
Location
London
I love Fred growth from her first appearance to when she died in Wesley's arms.

I wasn't keen on the relationship with Gunn especially because for me it came out of no where. And I always expected at some point that she and Wesley were going to get together so I am not a fan of the prolonged game of them waiting to do the inevitable when they were planning on going that way in the end. Plus I will admit that they had Wesley a little over intense about his feelings for Fred.
However I just loved them and as there wasn't many great options IMO for ATS couples they have ended up being my favourite in the show.

And I don't think that there couldn't have been a place for Cordy in the team still just because Fred was there. The problems were with CC strain relationship with JW and them seemingly making the perplexing decision to kill Cordy off even if it wasn't suppose to be done in the way it was done. Of course it they had just kept her as Angel's BF and give her a possible outside romance from the team or even one with Gunn. A shame for an original permanent cast member from BTVS.

Ok back to Fred! I think her coming on made the team better and more interesting. If they hadn't put her in a love triangle then it would not had the predictable problems that came about with her, Wesley and Gunn. Although I don't have any problems with Wesley going into his complicated relationship with Lilah. I enjoyed all of Wesley's relationships.

And I could understand her crush on Angel considering he (and the team) saved her and brought her back. She got over it relatively quick with no internal damage to herself. And she blossom quite lovely and organically. And even if they hadn't brought her in it doesn't mean that Cordy still wouldn't have had the same fate and I'm not sure if I'd have found AI team that interesting to watch with it just being all boys!
 

AnthonyCordova

Earth Invasion Taskforce Unlimited
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
Messages
2,140
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Denver, Colorado
Sineya
I thought most fans appreciated the evolving, changing relationships and the soap opera-y aspect of Buffy and Angel, so I have to say the question surprises me. Wouldn't most fans find static and unchanging relationships boring? Fred made things more complex but I thought that was a good thing!

Me personally I always preferred these shows to others precisely because of the verisimilitude. In real life, friends fall in and out of friendship and love all of the time. In real life, relationships have their highs and their lows. We have to constantly work at relationships and cultivate them. I'll admit watching Fred inadvertently and unintentionally drive a firm wedge between Wes and Gunn pained me greatly, but it was a good pain, because it was true to life and because it made for captivating television!
 
nightshade
nightshade
I like to throw out random questions every now and again!

GraceK

Grr Arrg
Joined
Nov 3, 2016
Messages
1,278
Age
34
Fred made the show better. Amy Acker is an amazing actress, and she brought a lot to the show besides a love triangle. We needed more than just Cordelia 🙄. Sorry not sorry, but she’s not the be all end all. A show can have more than just one female character and Cordelia wasn’t enough. Especially given the hijacking and assassination her character in season 3, it ended up being a godsend we had Fred.
 

Btvs fan

Scooby
Joined
Feb 11, 2019
Messages
1,369
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39
While I thought Amy Acker was a good actress, I was never a fan of her character until she became Illyria.
The Fred character was always shown as a sort of puritanical/ evangelical Good is good and Bad is bad type of person, with a disposition of an old style evangelical vengeance on anyone she thinks has wronged her. Not really a fan of that type of person anyway. Besides for her to suddenly join W&H with no motivation (Angel/Wes and Gunn all did) never made sense. Even when she's asked direct in Home, the writer doesn't really anwser it and moves on quickly.
When she became Illyria though, yeah she was great :)
 

LeeJones41

Potential
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Aug 18, 2016
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156
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50
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Los Angeles, CA
In a way . . . yes. I never liked her romance with Wes. I found it disturbing in ways in which I would have to write an essay about my feelings. I didn't care for the Charles/Fred/Wes "love triangle". I never had a problem with the idea of a romance between Angel and Cordelia. I had a problem with Fred constantly announcing how "perfect" they were for each other. I didn't need that. I could see for myself that Angel and Cordy balanced each other nicely. And Fred's pronouncements about the relationship nearly ruined the mood.
 

katmobile

Scooby
Joined
Jun 17, 2018
Messages
1,473
Age
49
I think Amy Acker just had chemistry with everyone - Aly Hannigan is the same and DB and JM.
 
Taake
Taake
She did. She and JM have that in common, they have great chemistry with most other characters!

telperion66

Potential
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Far from it! I wasn't a big fan of the Pylea-based storyline, but from the start of season three onward, Fred just gets better and better.

Her and Gunn are so sweet together, plus they had a real watchability in the third season that I think was unique to anything we've ever seen in the Buffyverse.

In season four, Fred continues to be a strong character, but her performances lack the stardust that we saw in the second half of season three. You could, I suppose, put that down to the writing.

I ignore season five because I am just, well, ignorant!
 

Taake

That's right, I'm watching you...
Staff member
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Stockholm, Swe
Black Thorn
I ignore season five because I am just, well, ignorant!
Yes! :p
Season 5 is not only amazing, but from a Fred point of view - big wardrobe update! So many cute skirts.

I mean, not to mention the whole dying and Illyria thing.
 

BaskingINBangel

I'm a little bit bison
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May 8, 2019
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441
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36
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Nevada USA
No, no way, not even close! She made the show better for me. As someone who has never really been able to connect with Cordy as a character, I needed another female on the show. Lilah had not yet won me over as a character, and Kate was just not my cup of tea.

I loved Fred the moment she was on screen. She is the most adorable character ever, and she had me at "Tacos!" Without a doubt, she definitely made the show better.
 

Altoz

Potential
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Not at all. I thought the Season 5 episode "A Hole in the World" was absolutely brilliant, with its tragedy and pathos. Both the mounting horror as we realise that Fred won't make it, the chilling moment when she finally becomes Illyria and the attedant heartbreak for Wes as he loses the woman he loves. And Wesley's death scene in "Not Fade Away", in which Illyria let Fred through to share his last moments. Amy Adams is a damn excellent actor. Her performance in those scenes is a standout.
 
AlphaFoxtrot
AlphaFoxtrot
Cousin Beth?

Give Us A Kiss

Fuffy Apologist
Joined
Feb 4, 2015
Messages
2,655
Sineya
Of course not, she's adorable, smart and wouldn't hurt a fly, I like her :)
 
Ethan Reigns
Ethan Reigns
Too bad Professor Seidel wasn't a fly.
ChaseRules
ChaseRules
Glad to know you like Fred too . She was also friendly to one & all . She was the nicest person on there .
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