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Did Fred ruin the show?

Willow Tara

Grr Argh - aka WhedonverseFan
Joined
Jun 3, 2018
Messages
904
Location
Sunnydale (Germany)
Sineya
Now that you say that there were a couple of things Anya says that could play into a Anya/Willow ship. There was something when they were doing the map spell.
Yes Anya sais after the spell: It did get a little sexy didn't it?
And in Tough Love Willow sais she can't sleep without Tara and Anya sais: e869fdd1f7121bcd913be43064585167.jpg
PgwL.gif
(I don't ship Anya and Willow... I just immediately had to think of these two scenes. Didn't find a picture of the spell thing in season 7.)
 

AlphaFoxtrot

Scooby
Joined
Sep 11, 2017
Messages
894
Age
37
I would say Angel was ruined by 1. Ad-Hoc Casting and characterization. 2. No sense of series setting or direction, and 3. Season 4. Fred was a different character from Cordie and Willow, and at least had nice legs, and gave us "A Hole in the World," of the best episodes of the series. As for the relationships, well, it's Buffy. Shippers are a big deal in this fanbase. You can't get rid of the relationships any more than you can get rid of the lesbians in season 6.
 

ChaseRules

When it comes to dating I the Slayer.
Joined
Apr 23, 2012
Messages
6,715
Sineya
I think Fred was a very good part of the show . She did a lot more for it then Cordelia did . I love Cordelia but by the time Fred came around the writers were lost ion what to do with Cordelia & it showed . I really liked Fred myself .

And for the record Fred & Willow would have made a great couple .
 

BattleofDuty

Townie
Joined
Dec 15, 2018
Messages
20
Age
22
She made Season 4 of AtS redeemable, losing Fred in that series would just destroy it as we had Angel being Angelus... Cordy who wasn't Cordy, Wesley 2.0 and Gunn, who was fastly losing himself in the team. So I would say no.
 
Mr Trick
Mr Trick
Good point.

CHK DeWilSon

A BAngel fan. Always.
Joined
Apr 8, 2017
Messages
114
Age
48
Location
London
I love Fred growth from her first appearance to when she died in Wesley's arms.

I wasn't keen on the relationship with Gunn especially because for me it came out of no where. And I always expected at some point that she and Wesley were going to get together so I am not a fan of the prolonged game of them waiting to do the inevitable when they were planning on going that way in the end. Plus I will admit that they had Wesley a little over intense about his feelings for Fred.
However I just loved them and as there wasn't many great options IMO for ATS couples they have ended up being my favourite in the show.

And I don't think that there couldn't have been a place for Cordy in the team still just because Fred was there. The problems were with CC strain relationship with JW and them seemingly making the perplexing decision to kill Cordy off even if it wasn't suppose to be done in the way it was done. Of course it they had just kept her as Angel's BF and give her a possible outside romance from the team or even one with Gunn. A shame for an original permanent cast member from BTVS.

Ok back to Fred! I think her coming on made the team better and more interesting. If they hadn't put her in a love triangle then it would not had the predictable problems that came about with her, Wesley and Gunn. Although I don't have any problems with Wesley going into his complicated relationship with Lilah. I enjoyed all of Wesley's relationships.

And I could understand her crush on Angel considering he (and the team) saved her and brought her back. She got over it relatively quick with no internal damage to herself. And she blossom quite lovely and organically. And even if they hadn't brought her in it doesn't mean that Cordy still wouldn't have had the same fate and I'm not sure if I'd have found AI team that interesting to watch with it just being all boys!
 

AnthonyCordova

Earth Invasion Taskforce Unlimited
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
Messages
1,903
Location
Denver, Colorado
Sineya
I thought most fans appreciated the evolving, changing relationships and the soap opera-y aspect of Buffy and Angel, so I have to say the question surprises me. Wouldn't most fans find static and unchanging relationships boring? Fred made things more complex but I thought that was a good thing!

Me personally I always preferred these shows to others precisely because of the verisimilitude. In real life, friends fall in and out of friendship and love all of the time. In real life, relationships have their highs and their lows. We have to constantly work at relationships and cultivate them. I'll admit watching Fred inadvertently and unintentionally drive a firm wedge between Wes and Gunn pained me greatly, but it was a good pain, because it was true to life and because it made for captivating television!
 
nightshade
nightshade
I like to throw out random questions every now and again!

GraceK

Grr Arrg
Joined
Nov 3, 2016
Messages
1,273
Age
32
Fred made the show better. Amy Acker is an amazing actress, and she brought a lot to the show besides a love triangle. We needed more than just Cordelia 🙄. Sorry not sorry, but she’s not the be all end all. A show can have more than just one female character and Cordelia wasn’t enough. Especially given the hijacking and assassination her character in season 3, it ended up being a godsend we had Fred.
 

Btvs fan

Potential
Joined
Feb 11, 2019
Messages
488
Age
37
While I thought Amy Acker was a good actress, I was never a fan of her character until she became Illyria.
The Fred character was always shown as a sort of puritanical/ evangelical Good is good and Bad is bad type of person, with a disposition of an old style evangelical vengeance on anyone she thinks has wronged her. Not really a fan of that type of person anyway. Besides for her to suddenly join W&H with no motivation (Angel/Wes and Gunn all did) never made sense. Even when she's asked direct in Home, the writer doesn't really anwser it and moves on quickly.
When she became Illyria though, yeah she was great :)
 

LeeJones41

Potential
Joined
Aug 18, 2016
Messages
112
Age
48
Location
Los Angeles, CA
In a way . . . yes. I never liked her romance with Wes. I found it disturbing in ways in which I would have to write an essay about my feelings. I didn't care for the Charles/Fred/Wes "love triangle". I never had a problem with the idea of a romance between Angel and Cordelia. I had a problem with Fred constantly announcing how "perfect" they were for each other. I didn't need that. I could see for myself that Angel and Cordy balanced each other nicely. And Fred's pronouncements about the relationship nearly ruined the mood.
 
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