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Spoiler! Did Lorne Know?

Poetic Life

Townie
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Lorne can read people as they sing, and can see a few of their possible destinies. I've got that. Depending on what part of their life they're in and what choices they still have to make, not everything is clear. I've got that.

But Angel and the rest of them sang for him multiple times and he said nothing about Cordelia being possessed by Jasmine, about Fred being killed by Illyria, etc. Which makes me wonder:

Did Lorne know what was going to happen? Did the Powers That Be send him to guide them in a different direction (a reason for moving into the Hyperion) and it ended up the same way anyways? Was the alternative even worse? And did he kill Lindsey for a reason beyond what Angel told him?
 

DeadlyDuo

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Lorne can read people as they sing, and can see a few of their possible destinies. I've got that. Depending on what part of their life they're in and what choices they still have to make, not everything is clear. I've got that.

But Angel and the rest of them sang for him multiple times and he said nothing about Cordelia being possessed by Jasmine, about Fred being killed by Illyria, etc. Which makes me wonder:

Did Lorne know what was going to happen? Did the Powers That Be send him to guide them in a different direction (a reason for moving into the Hyperion) and it ended up the same way anyways? Was the alternative even worse? And did he kill Lindsey for a reason beyond what Angel told him?
Interesting question. It's possible that Lorne doesn't see every single potential destiny or that his visions are vague. It would be a bit too plot convenient for Lorne to hear someone sing then go "On Friday November 15th at 2 36pm this person is going to going into the bank on main street and rob it. We must stop them!"

Perhaps he saw bits of Lindsey's destiny and pieced them together and realised Linsey was going to do something apocalyptically evil?
 

Ethan Reigns

Scooby
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Sineya
Perhaps Lorne did not have information about events that would interfere with a person's trajectory in life. Cordelia was possessed by someone else. Fred was similarly possessed by someone else. This may not have been apparent if Lorne could only see what the person he was reading intended to do in the future. Note that he had an immediate reaction to Fred singing "You Are My Sunshine" because the possession had already started. But he might have seen Lindsey as someone who would be a major force for evil without any possession.
 

Spanish Flame

It's Not Easy Being Green
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I think Lorne's visions are more like when a clairvoyant does a Tarot card reading and it depends on what you are asking or even concerned about the result might not be very clear. It is not the same if you ask a general question about your life than a particular thing, the answer is not the same.

So I think Lorne's influenced by all these variables.

As for Lindsey, there might another reasons for him to kill him. But I have only watched once the episodes so as soon as I rewatch them I will focus that and see If I can get anything clear...
 

Guy

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Black Thorn
Am I the only one who always thought that Lorne's powers make zero sense? Sometimes he can give the specific locations where specific things are gonna happen, like a less painful version of Cordy's visions, and at other times he can barely tell anything. Lorne's powers make even less sense than the soul canon.
 

Spanish Flame

It's Not Easy Being Green
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Am I the only one who always thought that Lorne's powers make zero sense? Sometimes he can give the specific locations where specific things are gonna happen, like a less painful version of Cordy's visions, and at other times he can barely tell anything. Lorne's powers make even less sense than the soul canon.
It does to me. If you know how those things work it does make sense and it's not a science it is someting related to you and depends on your mood and could get weak if you are stressed or pressure or maybe focus on something else.

The soul canon for me is absolutely non sense as a vampire can be. That doesnt mean I don't like them but it's all pure fantasy. It's called science fiction lol :D;)
 

Guy

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It does to me. If you know how those things work it does make sense and it's not a science it is someting related to you and depends on your mood and could get weak if you are stressed or pressure or maybe focus on something else.

The soul canon for me is absolutely non sense as a vampire can be. That doesnt mean I don't like them but it's all pure fantasy. It's called science fiction lol :D;)
But Lorne's powers are so... Convenient! Sometimes he knows everything the characters need, at other times he has zero precognition. There's no logic to it - it just works when it's convenient for the plot.

The soul canon is messy, but at least it has something resembling coherence...
 

Spanish Flame

It's Not Easy Being Green
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You might be right... but hey! it's just a show and I don't know how hard they invested in these special powers.... I'll give it a go because I'm not any specialist on this stuff....o_O
 

white avenger

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If Lorne had been able to predict someone's entire future from just hearing them sing once, he should have warned Angel about Lindsey's betrayal, Cordy about everything that would happen to her, Wes and Fred about their impending deaths, and Gunn about what would happen when W&H gave him the supercharged legal brain months, or even years, earlier. If he could only see a short time into the future, how could he know about Lindsey's betrayal when he hadn't heard Lindsey sing for a long time?

Basically, the writers just wanted to kill off Lindsey and they just jumped on Lorne's ability to predict the future as the excuse.
 
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Spanish Flame

It's Not Easy Being Green
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If Lorne had been able to predict someone's entire future from just hearing them sing once, he should have warned Angel about Lindsey's betrayal, Cordy about everything that would happen to her, Wes and Fred about their impending deaths, and Gunn about what would happen when W&H gave him the supercharged legal brain months, or even years, earlier. If he could only see a short time into the future, how could he know about Lindsey's betrayal when he hadn't heard Lindsey sing for a long time?

Basically, the writers just wanted to kill off Lindsey and they just jumped on Lorne's ability to predict the future as the excuse.
Or maybe as I've heard on the show - or so I think- fate is not written and still can be changed so despite Lorne warns when he hears people singing it is on them to decide what to do or not. What woul have happen if Fred would have left L.A. when Lorne told her to get away from there?. Remember that scene when she left the hotel and went to Caritas to feel safer?....
 

white avenger

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Or maybe as I've heard on the show - or so I think- fate is not written and still can be changed so despite Lorne warns when he hears people singing it is on them to decide what to do or not.
That would make sense, though it would somewhat detract from the whole clairvoyant thing. If fate can, and obviously does in the real world, change according to one's actions, then the best that Lorne could possibly do is give a somewhat educated guess as to what someone MIGHT do under very specific circumstances. By that logic, he murdered Lindsey with for no more reason than that he might, at some time in the future, betray Angel and his friends. Hardly a good enough reason to lose 25% of your fighting force, especially in a SHTF situation like Angel had manipulated himself into.

And, on the question of Lorne being able to predict the future, if Angel had so much faith in his ability that he would have him kill Lindsey, why didn't he yodel a few lines, himself, find out what was coming, and make better preparations for it? The whole, "Let's kick 'em in the shins, so they'll get mad enough to kill us all," plan never impressed me at all.

(And before anyone suggests that Angel DID sing for Lorne, and that was really why Lindsey had to die, Lorne actually told Lindsey, after he shot him, that it was because he had heard HIM sing)
 

Spanish Flame

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That would make sense, though it would somewhat detract from the whole clairvoyant thing. If fate can, and obviously does in the real world, change according to one's actions, then the best that Lorne could possibly do is give a somewhat educated guess as to what someone MIGHT do under very specific circumstances. By that logic, he murdered Lindsey with for no more reason than that he might, at some time in the future, betray Angel and his friends. Hardly a good enough reason to lose 25% of your fighting force, especially in a SHTF situation like Angel had manipulated himself into.

And, on the question of Lorne being able to predict the future, if Angel had so much faith in his ability that he would have him kill Lindsey, why didn't he yodel a few lines, himself, find out what was coming, and make better preparations for it? The whole, "Let's kick 'em in the shins, so they'll get mad enough to kill us all," plan never impressed me at all.

(And before anyone suggests that Angel DID sing for Lorne, and that was really why Lindsey had to die, Lorne actually told Lindsey, after he shot him, that it was because he had heard HIM sing)
I shall rewatch season 5 again to get more points on all this.

And about Fate: when I got my future read on the Tarot cards, they will show a limt period of time and good readers tell you it is an option to you follow that path or not, so for me Lorne is always giving you an advice to take that path or not. But for that's implicit on his reading....
 
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