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Discussion of 1.08 "I Will Remember You" - Aired 11/23/99 (WB-US)

Angelic Slayer

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Sineya
Season 1, Episode 8: "I Will Remember You" - Aired: 11/23/1999

Summary said:
Buffy arrives in L.A., furious that Angel did not tell her that he was in Sunnydale. While they are talking, they are attacked by a Mohra demon, and some of its blood gets onto Angel. After a brief hunt, they kill the demon, but its blood is having a strange effect on Angel. He feels short of breath, dizzy, and disoriented, and then suddenly his heart begins to beat. Now fully human, Angel must decide how this will affect his relationship with Buffy and whether or not he can still be a Champion.
source

Discuss this episode of Angel, the Series, featuring the heroine herself Buffy the Vampire Slayer, here :)
 

BananaBuffy

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I swear this is the only time I ever shipped Buffy/Angel, even for a minute. This episode is very heartfelt, very heartbreaking and well written and thought out. There are sweet scenes, there are very sad scenes and the acting is amazing.

However, I do find issue with Angel in this episode (don't I always?) It feels to me as if he's doing everything on his terms. He doesn't discuss things with Buffy (his wanting to become a vampire again), he doesn't give her a choice or at least talk to her about it beforehand. He does it. Much like in season three of Buffy where he leaves her. That has to hurt and I have never liked that about Angel. He just does things as he sees fit to do them. It is a true character flaw, which I suppose is the Whedonverse strength and weakness.
 
S
Spikefan31
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O
OutForAWalk
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bespangeled
bespangeled
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Jules

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Black Thorn
This is the most heartbreaking episode to watch!! I cry everytime!! I just love the whole concept, that Buffy and Angel get their perfect relationship yet they cant keep it because they have to go save the world :(

The scene were Buffy is in Angel's office I always get the feeling that she's asking him to change his mind. That's just probably the Bangel in me :) I love that Angel and Buffy have another heartbreaking scene in the sewers, its just very typical of them. I can understand why Angel did what he did, he was worried that if he woke up with Buffy one more morning he wouldnt be able to make the choices he did, so in his defence if he'd had a chance to talk to her about it she might have easily been able to change his mind :(

I just wish this wasnt the end of Bangel :(
 

white avenger

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However, I do find issue with Angel in this episode (don't I always?) It feels to me as if he's doing everything on his terms. He doesn't discuss things with Buffy (his wanting to become a vampire again), he doesn't give her a choice or at least talk to her about it beforehand. He does it. Much like in season three of Buffy where he leaves her. That has to hurt and I have never liked that about Angel. He just does things as he sees fit to do them. It is a true character flaw, which I suppose is the Whedonverse strength and weakness.
This is one of those episodes where my opinion generally tends to upset a lot of people, but I see neither nobility, love, nor even any real self sacrifice on Angel's part here. Suddenly, he isn't the strongest kid on the block, and he can't handle it. There are plenty of examples of completely human demon fighters on both shows who are quite effective without being super powerful or having accelerated healing. If Angel really wanted to stay human, he could have learned to fight demons at least as well as Giles, Xander, or Riley.

As for the "if you remain as you are, Buffy will die within a year, protecting you," thing, well, shucks, Angel, she could have died WITHIN A WEEK just pursuing her normal daily routine. A year of happiness, of living a somewhat more normal life with someone who she actually loves, the chance of even having a child together, and you throw that away. (Of course, he couldn't know at the time that Buffy would die anyway, protecting Dawn. I've always wished that there had been some comment about that somewhere)

The icing on the cake, however, to me, was when he actually, there at the last moment, told Buffy what he had done. That kind of cruelty, I would expect from Angelus, but not from Angel. Okay, granted, she practically begged him to tell her, but why didn't he just stall for the couple of minutes left, until answering wouldn't have been an issue. Barring that, hell, why didn't he just plain out lie? Did he somehow feel that stealing Buffy's happiest day AND fondest hope for the future was somehow less cruel if he told her about it when it was too late for her to do anything about it? If the memory of that day and the weight of that decision was to be his, and his alone, why share it, even for that brief moment when it could only cause a loved one grief?

Throughout the entire eight years that we have known Angel, plus the additional time in the comic books, he has always seemed to be of the opinion that he knows what the best for everyone at any moment, and has taken it upon himself on quite a few occasions to literally manipulate the lives and even memories of others with neither their permission nor even input in the matter. And it isn't even as though he can be objective in the matter, because when the table is turned, when someone does the same thing to him, using the exact same thing for exactly the same motive, he can't take it. (Wes taking Connor for what he thought was the good of all concerned. He was proven wrong, but his motives were no less sincere because of that. He in no way deserved what he got from Angel in return)

But the final straw is this: why is Angel altering Buffy's memories (okay, technically, he just made the day go away, but the result was the same) on the excuse that doing so would make things better and someone else happy, somehow be a noble act of self sacrifice, when the exact thing done by Willow in "Tabula Rasa" is cruel, inconsiderate, and invasive?

Buffy was supposed to be, by that time, a mature woman, capable of making her own decisions and living with the results, even if those results proved to be unhappy or even tragic. Why couldn't Angel have given her the simple courtesy of allowing her to have some say in her own life?

(Okay, loyal Angel fans, I stand ready to take your wrath like a man, Tie me to the stake, light the bonfire if you choose to do so. Just don't kick my dog. There's no reason for cruelty here)
 
O
OutForAWalk
100% Agree.
Wesley Pryce
Wesley Pryce
He did it to save Buffy and to save the entire world.
Tranquillity
Tranquillity
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S
ShadowWeaver
Excellent post! And very astute analysis of Angel's flawed logic.

sisterofmercy

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This is tied with Smile Time as my favourite episode of Angel. I'm a sucker for a good romance story and this episode certainly had that. I have to treat Angel's Buffy as separate from 'Buffy's' Buffy though, as I think she was a bit OOC. As different people wrote it though I'm not surprised.
 
Wesley Pryce
Wesley Pryce
I don't see how she was OOC at all. She was very defensive and emotional,typical Buffy.

Amethyst

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Visit from Buffy yay!! :D
Poor Bangel, I soooooo want them to be together!!!! :(
OMG! Angel is alive!!!! :D :D
I LOL'd at Angel's eating frenzy, damn right chocolate is sooo good :D lol
Bangel kisses Woohooo!! :D
I thought it was funny that they were actually having tea and krackers lol
Omg naked Angel :love:
I love Bangel, they are so right together :)
OK, I HATE stupid episodes, where all this stuff happens and then oopps, sorry, no, were just gonna erase everything like it never happened, or oh sorry, it's just a dream!! Stuff You!! Stupid fake episodes, messing with people's memories :mad:
I can't help but cry when Buffy cries :(
 
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Wesley Pryce

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Great ep for the bangels(even though I'm not one :p and I'm not a Spuffy or a Briley either so leave me out of your ship fight :D) It is also great for progressing the character of Angel and the story of the series.
 

Kean

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Eh... I dunno, it seemed forced, like they were really, really trying to be funny rather than having genuine (hyperbolic though they may be) reactions.
 

NeonNightLight

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This episode was absolutely beautiful. I truly believe this where we see Angel & Buffy at their most happiest. After seeing all the trials and tribulations Buffy and Angel have gone through, not only with each other, but also their whole lives, it made me teary to see them get what they actually wanted for once.
Also, it absolutely baffles me how one of Angel's most selfless decisions can be viewed so negatively. Buffy was going to die. Angel turned back time to save her. He even told her that he was going to, so it's not like she didn't have any consent. Also, the most important thing to remember is Angel & Buffy are both heros. They are forced to make decisions and sacrifice their needs and wants for the lives of others. Angel wants to do this to the best of his ability, and humanity is a liability. I'm genuinely confused as to what people prefer he should have done as an alternative?
 
R
Robb Stark
It's just Angel-bashing at its most forced
Black Eye Guy
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Blaze

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I'm torn with my opinion of this episode. Now hear me out, I'm not hating on Bangel, but I feel like this episode just feel sort of out of place. I don't know why, it's just that Buffy's personality and her actions don't seem to coincide with her character on BtVS at the time. I truly do love this episode, and artistically as well as a stand alone, it's a great episode. Like I said, I just feel like it's a bit wonky in the time line. I don't know if maybe it's because it's fallowed by Hero (my favorite Angel episode), or because Buffy was getting into Riley on her own show, but something is just off about the placement of the episode. As an example, I thought Angel coming back to SunnyD after Joyce's death was such a well made episode, and everything clicked perfectly together, but that smoothness was not there in I will Remember You. But then again, I guess with the whole memory thing, the episode wasn't suppose to be very smooth timeline wise.

Another thing that bugs me to no end is that I just don't buy the whole Buffy visiting her dad, I wish there would have been a better reason for her being in LA. Aside from that, stellar episode, a very sad ending.
 
Mr Trick
Mr Trick
You deserve these points just for the word wonky! lol.

Kean

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I'm torn with my opinion of this episode. Now hear me out, I'm not hating on Bangel, but I feel like this episode just feel sort of out of place. I don't know why, it's just that Buffy's personality and her actions don't seem to coincide with her character on BtVS at the time. I truly do love this episode, and artistically as well as a stand alone, it's a great episode. Like I said, I just feel like it's a bit wonky in the time line. I don't know if maybe it's because it's fallowed by Hero (my favorite Angel episode), or because Buffy was getting into Riley on her own show, but something is just off about the placement of the episode. As an example, I thought Angel coming back to SunnyD after Joyce's death was such a well made episode, and everything clicked perfectly together, but that smoothness was not there in I will Remember You. But then again, I guess with the whole memory thing, the episode wasn't suppose to be very smooth timeline wise.

Another thing that bugs me to no end is that I just don't buy the whole Buffy visiting her dad, I wish there would have been a better reason for her being in LA. Aside from that, stellar episode, a very sad ending.
I love this episode to death but I do think it happened, in part, so that they could pursue the Riley relationship without having to deal with "But Angel!" all the time. You spend 3 years shaping these characters together, and then break them up in a way where they are clearly very much in love, never mind all their mythology of being "forever" and I think the writers found that they had written themselves into a corner. They had to find a way to show the audience that Buffy and Angel were still in love and not being disrespectful or OCC but also, allowed them both to continue on with their lives without each other.

On her visiting her Dad? I always took that up as something she was just saying to Angel so she could save face. I've never believed it was actually true.
 

Blaze

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I love this episode to death but I do think it happened, in part, so that they could pursue the Riley relationship without having to deal with "But Angel!" all the time. You spend 3 years shaping these characters together, and then break them up in a way where they are clearly very much in love, never mind all their mythology of being "forever" and I think the writers found that they had written themselves into a corner. They had to find a way to show the audience that Buffy and Angel were still in love and not being disrespectful or OCC but also, allowed them both to continue on with their lives without each other.

On her visiting her Dad? I always took that up as something she was just saying to Angel so she could save face. I've never believed it was actually true.
This is all logical, but for me I liked their ending almost better when they parted in s3, I will Remember you just made me feel like Briley should not happen, Buffy was clearly not ready for a new relationship with the event of IWRY, I think it just contributing to people disliking Briley even more. But maybe that's just me.

As for the dad, I completely agree, it would make sense that she just used it as an excuse, but then again, why waste all of that time to visit Angel for 5 minutes. Seems pretty pointless for her to go there only to lecture him. Unless she did go there expecting more, but again, this just brings be back to my first point that the episode made me bitter towards Briley.
 

Black Eye Guy

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This is all logical, but for me I liked their ending almost better when they parted in s3, I will Remember you just made me feel like Briley should not happen, Buffy was clearly not ready for a new relationship with the event of IWRY, I think it just contributing to people disliking Briley even more. But maybe that's just me.
Thing is that dropping everything to be with Angel is part of her, she does it in season 6 when Angel finds out she's back, season 7, the second she has a chance they're kissing, and the same things happens in season 8.
 
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Blaze

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Thing is that dropping everything to be with Angel is part of her, she does it in season 6 when Angel finds out she's back, season 7, the second she has a chance they're kissing, and the same things happens in season 8.
Oh I agree, but I still find it seemed oddly placed in the events at the time. At every other point, they both had a good reason to be together, this time, it just felt a bit forced the way Buffy heads to LA just to tell Angel off. It's not her getting back with Angel that I find weird, that is to be completely expected under the circumstances.
 

white avenger

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Also, it absolutely baffles me how one of Angel's most selfless decisions can be viewed so negatively. Buffy was going to die. Angel turned back time to save her. He even told her that he was going to, so it's not like she didn't have any consent.
The thing is, Buffy died anyhow, not protecting Angel, but protecting Dawn. Granted, Angel couldn't have known that at the time, but he should have known that the end result of fate is pretty much set in stone. The minor details, like who Buffy would die protecting, might vary, but the main fact, that Buffy was going to die protecting a loved one, was inescapable. That's been a staple of everything from oral storytelling to classic literature, from the very beginning of time up to the present.

And Angel telling Buffy what he had already done, with no prior discussion with her about it, what was going to happen in just a few seconds, is in no way getting her consent whatsoever. Just telling her at that point was nothing short of cruelty, whether it was honest or not, whether she asked him or not. Lying at that point would have been preferable to having her final seconds spent crying and whimpering, "It's too soon..."
 

Black Eye Guy

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The idea he needed Buddys consent is beyond stupid.

The decision effected Angel, Angel was the one that was turned human, the demon blood effected Angel not Buffy, as a side product of that Buffy got a great day, but Angel chose to make himself a vampire again, that decision is his, it effects him and as a side product Buffys memories are taken away, but ultimately the main person effected is Angel, Angels decision, there is no reason for Buffy to have a say in that.
 

Robb Stark

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The thing is, Buffy died anyhow, not protecting Angel, but protecting Dawn. Granted, Angel couldn't have known that at the time, but he should have known that the end result of fate is pretty much set in stone. The minor details, like who Buffy would die protecting, might vary, but the main fact, that Buffy was going to die protecting a loved one, was inescapable. That's been a staple of everything from oral storytelling to classic literature, from the very beginning of time up to the present.
I don't think this is fair. You're equating something that had nothing to do with Angel. The Oracles could have foreseen Buffy dying a week from then, and Angel's actions may have prevented that. There's no reason to connect Glory with the premonitions of the Oracles.

And Angel telling Buffy what he had already done, with no prior discussion with her about it, what was going to happen in just a few seconds, is in no way getting her consent whatsoever. Just telling her at that point was nothing short of cruelty, whether it was honest or not, whether she asked him or not. Lying at that point would have been preferable to having her final seconds spent crying and whimpering, "It's too soon..."[/QUOTE]

Well, this is a quote from you my friend:

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that I was raised to believe that love is too sacred a thing to ever be lied about or used simply to comfort someone, even at the point of death.
So in light of that, why is lying okay in this instance?
 
white avenger
white avenger
Hoisted on my own pitard! I can only say that sometimes ny rhetoric outraces my memory. I DID say that, and I do still believe it. But, in Angel's case, it wouldn't really count, since the lie would be blotted out in just a few seconds anyhow.

white avenger

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.

Well, this is a quote from you my friend:


Well, this is a quote from you my friend:

Quote:
Maybe it has something to do with the fact that I was raised to believe that love is too sacred a thing to ever be lied about or used simply to comfort someone, even at the point of death.
So in light of that, why is lying okay in this instance?




So in light of that, why is lying okay in this instance?
The difference is that, in the case of Buffy telling Spike that she loved him simply because he was dying and thought that it would give him a little comfort in his last moments, she would be lying about her feelings. That, I still believe is wrong.

Lying to someone who you love in order to spare them grief is a totally different matter. Angel would not be declaring his love for Buffy, because that was never in any doubt. As I said, he could have stalled, simply said, "It's nothing that we have to worry about right now. I've got something more important to tell you..." POOF! Day is undone, everything back as it was. Or, if he didn't think that he could bluff sufficiently, he could have said, "I made a deal with the Powers. They're gonna fix everything so that we can be happy..." POOF! Yes, it's still a lie, but it's a lie told to protect someone who he loved

Angel would not be lying about loving Buffy, he would be lying essentially to protect her

You may not see the difference, but I do, and I don't see any sort of contradiction between what I said about Buffy lying to Spike about loving him, and what I said about Angel lying to protect Buffy from grief.
 
R
Robb Stark
Haha, fair enough. You make a solid point. I just thought it was a funny instance :)
Blaze
Blaze
You my friend, have a valid point, Angel shouldn't have told Buffy
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