Discussion of 1.08 "I Will Remember You" - Aired 11/23/99 (WB-US)

[NeonSlayer]

I used to love this episode and thought it showed how much Angel loves Buffy.

But now all I can think is he seemed to forget (for most of AtS anyway) what they could've had more than she did. Angel is referenced in half of the BtVS s4-7 episodes and his name said over 5 dozen times. His presence & influence never leaves. She's there thinking she can't be with the man she loves because of fate while he's off rarely thinking of her and actively trying to date other mortal human-ish girls despite still being a cursed immortal vampire.

On AtS they wanted to make Angel & his show its own thing so kept trying to relegate Buffy to just the ex. Even in Hearthrob when we learn Angel's grief for Buffy was so intense he left the country for 3 months to meditate in a monastery in Sri Lanka, it was a Cangel episode. They used Angel's grief episode to further promote a future with Cordelia. It would be like if the BtVS writers were planning on Buffy falling for Xander in s3-4 so had Anne involve her wearing matching shirt colors with Xander, hugging Xander several times, only having a one-on-one talk with Xander, going after danger with Xander tagging along for safety, and the villain mistaking Xander for the man she loves while Xander says things like "I miss Angel too" "Don't say the A word" "We don't like to mention him".

Every time I see Cordelia in IWRY it makes me cringe because I know Angel is going to give up the love of his life only to try to date the only other girl in the episode.

Cordelia to Buffy: Maybe it's time you grew up and realized you can't have everything. You can't have Angel and save the world.

AtS didn't think that was an issue for any of Angel's other romantic or sexual interests. We were supposed to root for Cangel because they are both part of AI even though Angel & Buffy were going on patrols together, had many of the same demon powers, fought at the same level, & were part of the same save-the-world investigate-MOTW team.

What Buffy wanted wasn't normalcy, it was an end to trauma. She never gets a human life because she's not human, not completely. She spends half of s4 & half of s5 dating another monster fighter. What does Riley provide that Angel couldn't with the Gem of Amara she gave him? Sex? That wasn't a deterrent for Angel trying to date Cordelia or being ready to date Buffy any time she said the word post-Chosen. It was only in AtS 1-4 that Angel stayed away from Buffy because he thought he had nothing to offer her. Even though in that time he became a convertible driving hotel owning businessman who made thousands a month from MOTW cases. He had more to offer Buffy in that time frame than he did the entire time they were dating.

Yeah, Buffy tried to see what he did as for the best, because the only other option was to be bitter. In Living Conditions she is strongly ant-Kathy then when Kathy is gone she says "Other than trying to suck my soul out while I slept and trap me in a hell dimension she wasn't so bad as far as roommates go." In Grave even though she begged Giles not to leave months earlier when he comes back for a case and admits he shouldn't of left she says "You were right." In Touched even though she was crying over being kicked out of her own house and genuinely believed there was something at the vineyard & that Faith would lead them into a disaster (both happen that ep) she says "It's not like they were wrong." In The Yoko Factor even though Buffy says she went to LA to help Angel and Xander & Riley begin the episode by talking about how she went to LA to help Angel (Faith tried to murder him), she apologizes to Angel for passing judgement on his life even though the only thing they argued about was Faith (Buffy's former friend & patrol buddy turned abuser who was the only other person of Buffy's species).

 

[AngelsCordy]

Actually, I like this episode to the end. Until that date, I had never cried so much during an episode. Not even when Angel and Buffy broke up for the first time. I just could not help myself. It was a sad scene.

 

[RiverandFaith]

This is no doubt incredibly emotional the whole time, but while it's also very sweet in some ways, in makes me kinda mad at the same time. I was never huge on Bangel and as such I have a bit of a love-hate relationship with this episode. While I love that they get the chance at "Normal", I hate that Angel takes the day away from Buffy when he had no right! I feel like part of the problem with Angel is that he can't handle not being a champion. He's concerned that being human will mean Buffy will need to protect him and put her in more danger, when he could have got out of his way to fix this by training, you have Wesley, Giles, Gunn, Xander, Riley, all humans, but they kick demon butt, so that excuse to me is bull. Then this is the first time he arranges to take people's memories, which is not okay! It's fine if you don't want to stay human, if you feel being your vampy self is the best thing to do, but Angel shouldn't have gone through with allowing Buffy to forget what was probably going to be one of the best days of her life. "I felt your heart beat!" She's sobbing and doesn't want to forget something so monumental. It's one of the moments that makes me almost hate Angel. I bet Angelus would have let Buffy keep that day if for no reason other than you torture her, but she probably would've kept it.

 

[thrasherpix]

What messes it up for me on the rewatch is that after this he soon desires the Shansu Prophecy to become human. I suppose one could say he'd feel he EARNED it that way (since he wants to be redeemed) and yet that doesn't match his reasoning on wanting to remain a vampire rather than relearn how to fight under mortal limitations (though also without vampire limitations) as he felt he'd be letting Buffy and the world down. So why Sanshu?

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

So why Sanshu?

Because when Angel has fought all the demons and lived through the plagues mentioned in the prophecy and played his part in the apocalypse, there may not be anything left to fight.

The episode where Angel saves Buffy from Caleb is called "End of Days", which is what the Mohra demon calls the event that would kill Buffy, so I guess we can assume that Buffy is now save, as she used the medallion Angel brought to stop the Ubervamp invasion.

 

[GreyWalker1958]

Having rewatched this and read After the Fall, I think Angel would prefer Morha Demon blood (or the Ring of Amara even) over the Senior Partners forcing the Shanshu leading to 3 months of healing broken bones anyday

 

[Ann]

I used to love this episode and thought it showed how much Angel loves Buffy.

But now all I can think is he seemed to forget (for most of AtS anyway) what they could've had more than she did. Angel is referenced in half of the BtVS s4-7 episodes and his name said over 5 dozen times. His presence & influence never leaves. She's there thinking she can't be with the man she loves because of fate while he's off rarely thinking of her and actively trying to date other mortal human-ish girls despite still being a cursed immortal vampire.

On AtS they wanted to make Angel & his show its own thing so kept trying to relegate Buffy to just the ex. Even in Hearthrob when we learn Angel's grief for Buffy was so intense he left the country for 3 months to meditate in a monastery in Sri Lanka, it was a Cangel episode. They used Angel's grief episode to further promote a future with Cordelia. It would be like if the BtVS writers were planning on Buffy falling for Xander in s3-4 so had Anne involve her wearing matching shirt colors with Xander, hugging Xander several times, only having a one-on-one talk with Xander, going after danger with Xander tagging along for safety, and the villain mistaking Xander for the man she loves while Xander says things like "I miss Angel too" "Don't say the A word" "We don't like to mention him".

Every time I see Cordelia in IWRY it makes me cringe because I know Angel is going to give up the love of his life only to try to date the only other girl in the episode.

Cordelia to Buffy: Maybe it's time you grew up and realized you can't have everything. You can't have Angel and save the world.

AtS didn't think that was an issue for any of Angel's other romantic or sexual interests. We were supposed to root for Cangel because they are both part of AI even though Angel & Buffy were going on patrols together, had many of the same demon powers, fought at the same level, & were part of the same save-the-world investigate-MOTW team.

What Buffy wanted wasn't normalcy, it was an end to trauma. She never gets a human life because she's not human, not completely. She spends half of s4 & half of s5 dating another monster fighter. What does Riley provide that Angel couldn't with the Gem of Amara she gave him? Sex? That wasn't a deterrent for Angel trying to date Cordelia or being ready to date Buffy any time she said the word post-Chosen. It was only in AtS 1-4 that Angel stayed away from Buffy because he thought he had nothing to offer her. Even though in that time he became a convertible driving hotel owning businessman who made thousands a month from MOTW cases. He had more to offer Buffy in that time frame than he did the entire time they were dating.

Yeah, Buffy tried to see what he did as for the best, because the only other option was to be bitter. In Living Conditions she is strongly ant-Kathy then when Kathy is gone she says "Other than trying to suck my soul out while I slept and trap me in a hell dimension she wasn't so bad as far as roommates go." In Grave even though she begged Giles not to leave months earlier when he comes back for a case and admits he shouldn't of left she says "You were right." In Touched even though she was crying over being kicked out of her own house and genuinely believed there was something at the vineyard & that Faith would lead them into a disaster (both happen that ep) she says "It's not like they were wrong." In The Yoko Factor even though Buffy says she went to LA to help Angel and Xander & Riley begin the episode by talking about how she went to LA to help Angel (Faith tried to murder him), she apologizes to Angel for passing judgement on his life even though the only thing they argued about was Faith (Buffy's former friend & patrol buddy turned abuser who was the only other person of Buffy's species). QUOTE

I feel the same way about all the points you brought up. smh

 

[Oromous]

Oof, knowing that Angel and Cordy are gonna be a thing makes Angel's decision here that much, much worse. I love Cordelia, I do, but Angel's logic here falls apart like a rotten fruit off a 100 year old tree. Splat.

 

[Ann]

Oof, knowing that Angel and Cordy are gonna be a thing makes Angel's decision here that much, much worse. I love Cordelia, I do, but Angel's logic here falls apart like a rotten fruit off a 100 year old tree. Splat.

So true.

 

[Priceless]

Oof, knowing that Angel and Cordy are gonna be a thing makes Angel's decision here that much, much worse. I love Cordelia, I do, but Angel's logic here falls apart like a rotten fruit off a 100 year old tree. Splat.

But what works for one person might not work for another. Buffy has always wanted a normal life but Cordy never has. She's always wanted the extra-ordinary, which is why she moves to Hollywood in the first place. What happens between Angel and Cordy happens a couple of years down the line, when both characters have changed and Buffy appears to have her normal boyfriend anyway. Of course I'm a big Angel/Cordy fan and would have loved to have seen their relationship grow and what we did get didn't really impact Angel/Buffy.

 

[Faded90]

But what works for one person might not work for another. Buffy has always wanted a normal life but Cordy never has. She's always wanted the extra-ordinary, which is why she moves to Hollywood in the first place. What happens between Angel and Cordy happens a couple of years down the line, when both characters have changed and Buffy appears to have her normal boyfriend anyway. Of course I'm a big Angel/Cordy fan and would have loved to have seen their relationship grow and what we did get didn't really impact Angel/Buffy.

But Buffy CAN’T have a normal life, this is established throughout the entire series, whether she wants it or not she simply can’t have it. The Mayor’s speech to Angel still could be repeated word for word about Cangel. Cangel fans tend to love that scene at the end of Provider but that scene actually is proof that Cangel wouldn’t work just like Bangel wouldn’t. Cordy accepts she’s never going to have a normal life (just like Buffy) but she shows she does still enjoy ‘normal’ things like holidays - they joke about moonlight cruises but it’s still Cordy showing that she does still want some normal experiences. We even see Cordy enjoy a holiday in this season, Cordy is like Buffy in that they are both young girls who at times like just being young girls and the activities that come with that - Angel is still skulking in the shadows of it. Cordy has also consistently been the cast member - even in s3 of Buffy (she’s the only one that doesn’t accept Buffy’s reasoning at the end of Revelations) that is most scared of Angel losing his soul. There is absolutely no chance in character Cordy would risk it

The issue with Cangel is that it literally only works if Season 3 is the first season and Bangel doesn’t exist because it goes against everything we have seen from both Cordy and Angel

 

[Priceless]

But Buffy CAN’T have a normal life, this is established throughout the entire series, whether she wants it or not she simply can’t have it. The Mayor’s speech to Angel still could be repeated word for word about Cangel. Cangel fans tend to love that scene at the end of Provider but that scene actually is proof that Cangel wouldn’t work just like Bangel wouldn’t. Cordy accepts she’s never going to have a normal life (just like Buffy) but she shows she does still enjoy ‘normal’ things like holidays - they joke about moonlight cruises but it’s still Cordy showing that she does still want some normal experiences. We even see Cordy enjoy a holiday in this season, Cordy is like Buffy in that they are both young girls who at times like just being young girls and the activities that come with that - Angel is still skulking in the shadows of it. Cordy has also consistently been the cast member - even in s3 of Buffy (she’s the only one that doesn’t accept Buffy’s reasoning at the end of Revelations) that is most scared of Angel losing his soul. There is absolutely no chance in character Cordy would risk it

The issue with Cangel is that it literally only works if Season 3 is the first season and Bangel doesn’t exist because it goes against everything we have seen from both Cordy and Angel

I'm not sure Buffy can't have a normal life. She chooses to use the powers she has, she doesn't have to. I read the show as saying that we all have choices, sometimes not good choices, but we always have a choice. Buffy makes the choice in Prophecy Girl to be the Slayer, but she didn't have to. She could also use her Slayer powers but still have a normal romantic life. It could be argued that she has that with Riley.

As for vampires never growing old, I don't see that as a massive problem if you are in a committed relationship, you know your partner will never age and you are both happy to continue. None of us know what the future holds, Angel might Shanshu, Buffy may become immortal . . . anything could happen. Cordy knows everything there is to know about Angel and she still wants him and I wish she'd been given that chance.

It's the same issue with having sex. We know there is a curse, but Angel quite happily sleeps with Eve and Nina without the curse affecting them. I am sure Angel and Buffy (or Cordy) could have found a work-around for that. And not to treat it too lightly, but Willow's returned Angel's soul several times now, so even if he does lose it, it doesn't have to be a permanent thing.

 

[RDHWesley]

I hate to criticise an episode of 'Angel', because it is without doubt, my favourite TV show ever, but it just needs doing in this case. 'I Will Remember You' doesn't feel like an episode of 'Angel' because it gets hijacked two minutes in by Buffy, who for me, has always acted like a spoilt child in this episode, pouting away at Angel for the first half and not letting him give his side of the story. When Cordelia tells Buffy to grow up later on in the episode, I give a cheer. This is an episode that is great for Bangel people, but I'm afraid to say, I am not one of them. Their interaction, particularly in BtVS Season 3, and in this episode is so melodramatic and cringey that I genuinely find it quite difficult to watch. That's just me, though. If you love Bangel, you almost certainly love this, and all power to you.

 

[Faded90]

I hate to criticise an episode of 'Angel', because it is without doubt, my favourite TV show ever, but it just needs doing in this case. 'I Will Remember You' doesn't feel like an episode of 'Angel' because it gets hijacked two minutes in by Buffy, who for me, has always acted like a spoilt child in this episode, pouting away at Angel for the first half and not letting him give his side of the story. When Cordelia tells Buffy to grow up later on in the episode, I give a cheer. This is an episode that is great for Bangel people, but I'm afraid to say, I am not one of them. Their interaction, particularly in BtVS Season 3, and in this episode is so melodramatic and cringey that I genuinely find it quite difficult to watch. That's just me, though. If you love Bangel, you almost certainly love this, and all power to you.

So basically Buffy isn’t allowed to have feelings and has to just accept being hurt?

 

[RDHWesley]

So basically Buffy isn’t allowed to have feelings and has to just accept being hurt?

No, I just kind of always find her presence on 'Angel' to be rather intrusive. It's fine for her to be hurt, but to just cut Angel off at every opportunity when he's trying to lay out his reasons just seems a little bit unfair. Angel was unfair as well, but I genuinely feel that he thought he was trying to do the right thing, even if he could have handled it a lot better. It probably comes down to me not being a big Bangel person, and finding a lot of their conversations from BtVS Season 3 onwards to be kind of cringe-inducing and immature (that counts for both of them).

 

[TriBel]

I'm not sure Buffy can't have a normal life.

She chose not to have a normal life in...um...Normal. Doesn't she say in S10 she doesn't want normal? Dawn has a "normal" life and spends half her time reminding Buffy she exists. Buffy wanting normal is just Buffy wanting what she can't have - that's not a criticism of Buffy - it's how desire works. Life never lives up to expectation... it doesn't fill the lack we feel. It doesn't fill the lack because lack is imaginary. Buffy's safe yearning after Angel because he's "taboo". He can't fail to deliver because he'll never be in a position to deliver... and vice versus (deliver sounded less crude in my head). In fact, I think he could "deliver" with no unwanted side effects but that's another story. If we had everything we wanted, if desire was fulfilled there'd be no reason to get out of bed in a morning. It would be utopia...and no one makes films about utopias 'cos they're boring (isn't Serenity about a failed utopia?). Or heaven...heaven's Utopia.