It maybe in character, but then if you are going to grow how as a character then it might be something to move away from. Also, I'm not convinced that she did sleep around too much in high school. I think a lot of it was talk on her part.
I think her decision to sleep with a guy she's been on three dates with, doesn't constitute a characteristic that needs growth. What is wrong with what she's doing that the writers 'need to move away from'? To me, that sounds more sexist than the episode. I see no issue with Cordelia's sexuality or her choices.It maybe in character, but then if you are going to grow how as a character then it might be something to move away from. Also, I'm not convinced that she did sleep around too much in high school. I think a lot of it was talk on her part.
I disagree. Very little was established on screen about her sex life including just two partners, Wilson and Groo (arguably two and a quarter if one counts the couch stuff with Angel in the Prima Ballerina's dressing room).Really? I think going on three dates before sleeping with someone you're interested in, is completely in character for Cordelia.
It might be me being just a bit old fashioned I still think 3 dates is a little too soon to be sleeping with someone. Then again it depends how serious Cordy saw the relationship as being. Another problem is that Wilson is written and played so flat I couldn't see him appealing that much to Cordy. But for the sake of the storyline they needed to hook up I get that.Sarina says 'third times the charm' in the office - indicating this is the third date.
I imagine Cordelia slept with Devon - she is dating him in Inca Mummy Girl - and he has stood her up by Halloween. Possibly also Mitch from 'out of sight out of mind' - after all - 'it's not her arm I'm looking to be on.' Whoever the guy was, she definitely appears to have had sex by bad eggs - in her car - and knocked the handbrake off. 'I have a friend - not me...' is universal code for 'this happened to me.'
They may not have been especially good or gratifying experiences, which may explain why she doesn't jump straight into a sexual relationship with Xander, despite having had sex before. She has decided that she wasn't actually ready - so isn't ready with him.
However by 'expecting' - she is 19, she's moved away from home and has her own place, she's working - she's an adult. She had been moving forward into a potential adult relationship with Doyle, but then he went all away and it didn't happen - but that left her still prepared for a proper relationship. And this is the third time she has been out with Wilson. It's perfectly reasonable she might want to sleep with him. She tells Dennis she really likes this guy. And Wilson isn't going to take no for an answer - although he is coming off as all charm, he is going to keep wearing her down until she capitulates.
I don't like this episode. I don't like the way it uses mystical pregnancy (which the show goes to way to often). I don't like the pregnancy as parasite and I don't like the way it takes control over Cordy. The whole pregnant women can't think for themselves and are all irrational trope. When written and directed by men (which it was) that becomes another level of problematic. I also don't like the punishment for sex thing, Cordelia being used as a (increasingly irrational) damsel whilst the men rush about and rescue her or Wesley's misogyny. The way he treats the women in the office as if they're alien beings - and then when he refers to them as 'doxies' - only to backtrack when Angel says they liked him. He's happy to slur their sexual promiscuity (which he has absolutely no evidence for) ... until he thinks it might benefit him. And up until he finds Cordy pregnant he keeps on having a go at her, shirking her responsibilities - not working hard enough - criticising her for wanting to go out and have fun. F*ck of Wesley - you're not her boss. And even if you were, judging her for having a night out, after hours, would still be outside your remit.
Virginity is a patriarchal social construction. Cordelia is not a fundamentally different person depending on whether Devon stuck his dick in her for an ungratifying two minutes or not. Bad teenage sex doesn't make her sexually experienced in any meaningful sense of the word. Though she probably wouldn't have realised that at the time.I like to read it as Cordy was a virgin for at least most of her time in Sunnydale maybe even when arriving in L.A. Think it adds to the idea of the "mean girl" persona being a front and her actually being more sensitive than she often let on. It's quite cool to think of her stepping foot into L.A. with still many adult experiences facing her
I wasn't commenting on good or bad sexual experiences. Simply that losing your virginity is seen as a big step to growing up. Or at least that to most people its a note worthy thing. To me I don't actually think Buffy S2 Cordy is that much different from Angel S1 Cordy. It's just that there was more of a facade to her in Sunnydale. If you buy into Sunnydale Cordy being as shallow as she comes off at times then you could make a case for sex not being a big deal to her.Virginity is a patriarchal social construction. Cordelia is not a fundamentally different person depending on whether Devon stuck his dick in her for an ungratifying two minutes or not. Bad teenage sex doesn't make her sexually experienced in any meaningful sense of the word. Though she probably wouldn't have realised that at the time.
We know - going into L.A - that she thought she might have been in love with Xander, but she never had a sexual relationship with him. So we know she has never had a proper adult relationship, and probably not any good sexual experiences. Which is what actually counts. The whole adult world is still brand new to her, and a proper and full relationship something she has never experienced when she arrives in L.A.
It's actually pretty tragic that, despite being interested in men romantically and sexually, she doesn't get any decent sexual experiences - beyond a bit of quick PIV one time, which immediately resulted in pregnancy - until the end of season 3, with the groosalug. Even Angel is getting some more often than she is - and she describes him as 'practically a eunuch'. Though, I suppose, she is only 21 in season 3 - she just seems a lot older. And I guess a few high school boyfriends, a one night stand and then a proper sexual relationship isn't that below average for real life people of that age. Especially when you throw in a relationship that never started because one of you DIED and then the visions killing you slowly.
"Expecting" unfortunately traipse into that inappropriate sexist territory, and then some with demonizing pregnancies.Passion of the Nerd said:"Before we get into this one, I'd like to quickly run down the Mystical Pregnancy trope. It's a trope that stands out to me like the Wilhelm scream and feels equally boring and unnecessary. Strictly speaking, the trope refers to when a character in a story conceives a baby supernaturally or the baby is in some way supernatural, or both. And the trope, while overused, is not specifically sexist in and of itself, but man, is it INCREDIBLY easy for it to traipse into that territory, depending on how the episode is written."
I think it's more than just a pretty rapey act. It's rape. The only reason it is not much more clearly so is because it is magical and obviously the law doesn't cover magic. But in real terms, if a woman consents to sex with a condom and a man then doesn't use one, without letting her know, that is legally classed as rape. You can go to prison for that act. So - as Cordelia points out it was 'safe' but he knew it was sex specifically to get her pregnant so was not safe at all, that's a mystical version of secretly not wearing a condom.and then blaming herself for it even though it's a pretty rapey act.
Yeah, I agree. Thanks for correcting me; I was trying to hold back just calling it an act of rape, but you're right about the act being rape.I think it's more than just a pretty rapey act. It's rape. The only reason it is not much more clearly so is because it is magical and obviously the law doesn't cover magic. But in real terms, if a woman consents to sex with a condom and a man then doesn't use one, without letting her know, that is legally classed as rape. You can go to prison for that act. So - as Cordelia points out it was 'safe' but he knew it was sex specifically to get her pregnant so was not safe at all, that's a mystical version of secretly not wearing a condom.
And yet Cordelia never deals with this or seems to even notice. Once her life is saved it's like no big deal.
Also - a bit that really bugs me is when she wakes up and doesn't discover she is pregnant until she pulls down the covers and sees the bump. I mean, I've never had a baby, I don't ever want one but I'm going to go out on a limb and say a woman who is 9 months pregnant does not have to see the bump to know it is there. She knows it's there. It's heavy, it's squishing her internal organs, it's cumbersome ... even if Cordelia only assumed she was unusually bloated that morning , she knew there was something physically wrong with her before she pulled down those covers. And the fact that they write her as being perfectly cheery until the big reveal (she even stretches across to get the alarm clock - she moves and apparently doesn't feel it!) shows such a lack of imagination and understanding for what pregnancy must feel like. And if you can't even imagine that ... you should probably steer away from writing pregnancy story lines.
I guess I'm just not comfortable with this thing modern day does, where it throws the word 'rape' around like it can just fit into a million different boxes. To me, rape is one thing; sexually forcing yourself on someone - now, it can happen a ton of different ways, from drugging, to physical force, to trickery, and so on, but rape itself it just one thing. It's part of why I hate that sex with a minor is called statutory rape, because most of the time both parties are consenting. This is just my own personal issues, though, which is why my comment included the 'imo'.[B]Puppet[/B] It may legally be 'rape' but I very much doubt that Cordelia sees it so, since she consented to the sexual act itself. Imo.
But to put that into real world context, women who consent to sex with a condom consent to the sexual act itself - it is only afterwards when they discover they have been deceived that they would realise they had been raped ... and those unfamiliar with the law may not even realise they could call it such.
Meaningful consent is such a huge and important thing and if someone is deceiving you, or actively trying to harm you then you cannot give meaningful consent. Because you don't have all the information. Cordelia does not know he is intending to impregnate her with demon spawn therefore she does not give meaningful consent to the sexual act itself.
I believe that Cordelia may not know enough about the law (or that the law at the time was not forward thinking enough) to dare to name it as rape - but the violation is still real and massive. Having her just wave that off as 'well I consented to have sex so whatever comes from that is just reasonable fall out I have no right to be angry or hurt or feel violated by it' is troubling to say the least. It skirts very close to 'well you shouldn't have had sex if you didn't want the bad thing to happen' - and considering one of her take home lessons is 'sex is bad' that is pretty much what they go with.
I understand that they don't want to have to deal with that kind of trauma in the show, or make it an experience that has a lasting effect on Cordelia or influences her character going forward but ... in that case they shouldn't have done the episode full stop. It shows an incredibly cavalier attitude towards women's bodies and boundaries, if they're not willing to explore the depth of the fall out, then they shouldn't do the cheap body horror.
It's a very muddy situation and my first instinct is to disagree, but I definitely understand that it's tricky; technically, Riley didn't have all the information needed to fully consent. Here's where my issue lies; I always take it by how the 'victim' takes it. Since Riley clearly doesn't consider it rape, I won't either. I know that's problematic, since one of the only reasons, probably, that he doesn't think of himself as a victim, is the time it was written in, more than anything else. That's how I feel.