• Thank you for visiting Buffy-Boards. You obviously have exceptional taste. We just want you to know that:

    1. You really should register so you can chat with us!

    2. Fourteen thousand people can't be wrong.

    3. Buffy-Boards loves you.

    4. See 1 through 3.

    Come on, register already!

Discussion of 1.13 "She" - Aired 2/08/00 (WB-US)

Angelic Slayer

Daydream Believer
Joined
Jun 4, 2004
Messages
4,537
Age
31
Location
Ontario, Canada
Sineya
Season 1, Episode 13: "She"- Aired: 2/8/2000

Summary said:
Wesley becomes an official part of Angel Investigations just in time to take part in their latest case. A series of horribly burned corpses lead to a race of creatures from another dimension whose gender warfare is spilling over into the streets of L.A.

source

Discuss this episode of Angel, the Series, here :)
 

Jules

Bite Me
Joined
Jun 18, 2003
Messages
4,057
Age
38
Location
England
Black Thorn
Yea, Angel's dancing was so funny, Wesley's dancing was just as good though. In fact Wesley is hillarious throughout the episode!!

I dont like the Angel/She-demon scene were they get all hot and heavy, I just think its very random. Her powers are cool though. Her morals are a little shaky, her choosing to let Cordy and Wesley die so she could free her girls, while understandable, makes her a little less heroic.
 

Amethyst

Scooby
Joined
Oct 9, 2011
Messages
531
Age
37
Location
Cheshire
Sineya
Wesley's dancing made me LOL but Angel's dancing made me LMAO :D
I thought Angel looked really weird with a mobile phone, just didn't suit him :rolleyes:
That is one creepy universe, I hope more of the women escape from there :)
 

Robb Stark

King in the North
Joined
May 30, 2012
Messages
2,588
Location
Tempe
Sineya
This is kind of a strange episode. For starters Angel's dancing was absolutely hilarious. That was one of the funniest things ever in Buffy or Angel.

But the overall story of this one was really, really out there. They spend a good three or four scenes on straight exposition to establish all this new mythology for this new dimension (which wasn't very cool), set up this new girl as seemingly a potential love interest for Angel (I wasn't wild about their scene together. It felt kind of forced and...random somehow. This episode ran parallel to "the I in team" on Buffy and the Buffy/Riley love scene was leaps and bounds better, for whatever it's worth), and then after this episode...nothing. I mean, they clearly went through a lot of trouble to make this into a multi-episode arc and it went nowhere. I never got that. My only thought is that it must not have been very well received when it aired.

Wes was great though, and I don't think it can be said enough: Angel's dancing!
 

Mischlings

Potential
Joined
Dec 3, 2012
Messages
414
Age
29
It says something about this episode that, even after reading the summary, the only thing I remember from it is the dancing. Good god, that was amazing, just like any other time that Angel is doing something ridiculous -- he's so much fun to watch when he's being odd.
 
Wesley Pryce
Wesley Pryce
Angel and Wes on dancing wioth the stars,lets make this thing hapopen :D

CordelliasHeart

Potential
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
223
I loved this episode... And still wonder is it possible Taye was sincere about "If this enemy continues our entire society crumbles"
 

Mr Trick

Scooby
Joined
Jan 9, 2015
Messages
15,725
Age
41
Location
London, UK
This is kind of a strange episode. For starters Angel's dancing was absolutely hilarious. That was one of the funniest things ever in Buffy or Angel.

But the overall story of this one was really, really out there. They spend a good three or four scenes on straight exposition to establish all this new mythology for this new dimension (which wasn't very cool), set up this new girl as seemingly a potential love interest for Angel (I wasn't wild about their scene together. It felt kind of forced and...random somehow. This episode ran parallel to "the I in team" on Buffy and the Buffy/Riley love scene was leaps and bounds better, for whatever it's worth), and then after this episode...nothing. I mean, they clearly went through a lot of trouble to make this into a multi-episode arc and it went nowhere. I never got that. My only thought is that it must not have been very well received when it aired.

Wes was great though, and I don't think it can be said enough: Angel's dancing!

Dear god thank-you!:D

Other than Angel and Wes dancing, I hate this entire episode.

Its almost like they said "you know everything else in this episode is just so heavy and stinky so we better stick this scene in just to safe it";)

One of the worse episodes of either show ever.
 

Give Us A Kiss

Fuffy Apologist
Joined
Feb 4, 2015
Messages
2,765
Sineya
Wes is dancing, he sucks :D

Angel is not very impressed...

Wes goes on about the cheese, better than being stuffy :)

Dance Angel, Dance !!! :D

Angel would rather hang out with Dennis than be at the party...

Why are there noises coming out of the box ??? :eek:

Cordy has a point, did Angel ever party as a human ???

Wes joined AI :D

Not another vision :(

Wes likes to have healthy teeth, doesn't he ?

What are Ice factories meant for anyways ??? Ice can be made at home...

Tay, talk...

Yes Cordy, we have portals, as seen on Buffy.

Angel has some cool stuff :p

Angel, hide...

That's a creepy lady :eek:

"Here Wait", Isn't it supposed to say "Wait Here" ??? o_O

Angel hates cellphones, I remember having a (small non flip) cellphone with an antenna coming out of it as a kid, it sucked :p

She's in the gallery :eek:

Is Angel making up some believable art facts ??? o_O

Consume half their body weight a day ??? I can't ever see myself consuming that much food a day :eek:

Angel is a vampire, he can't kill as he was cursed by gypsies.

So, Ko=Neck & Spine ???

So, this is about sexual arousal ??? o_O

At least she learned how to control her power :)

Those are nice flowers, Wes.

It's Kirk from Gilmore Girls again...or so it looks a lot like him...

Cordy, his cellphone sucks and so does the reception :p

Talk, Angel doesn't play games...

Wes, don't hit on her... :mad:

No, not home !!! :eek:

Angel, look what you did :eek:

Wes, don't suck up...

Next time: Something involving a family.
 

Mr Trick

Scooby
Joined
Jan 9, 2015
Messages
15,725
Age
41
Location
London, UK
Wes is dancing, he sucks :D

Angel is not very impressed...

Wes goes on about the cheese, better than being stuffy :)

Dance Angel, Dance !!! :D

Angel would rather hang out with Dennis than be at the party...

Why are there noises coming out of the box ??? :eek:

Cordy has a point, did Angel ever party as a human ???

Wes joined AI :D

Not another vision :(

Wes likes to have healthy teeth, doesn't he ?

What are Ice factories meant for anyways ??? Ice can be made at home...

Tay, talk...

Yes Cordy, we have portals, as seen on Buffy.

Angel has some cool stuff :p

Angel, hide...

That's a creepy lady :eek:

"Here Wait", Isn't it supposed to say "Wait Here" ??? o_O

Angel hates cellphones, I remember having a (small non flip) cellphone with an antenna coming out of it as a kid, it sucked :p

She's in the gallery :eek:

Is Angel making up some believable art facts ??? o_O

Consume half their body weight a day ??? I can't ever see myself consuming that much food a day :eek:

Angel is a vampire, he can't kill as he was cursed by gypsies.

So, Ko=Neck & Spine ???

So, this is about sexual arousal ??? o_O

At least she learned how to control her power :)

Those are nice flowers, Wes.

It's Kirk from Gilmore Girls again...or so it looks a lot like him...

Cordy, his cellphone sucks and so does the reception :p

Talk, Angel doesn't play games...

Wes, don't hit on her... :mad:

No, not home !!! :eek:

Angel, look what you did :eek:

Wes, don't suck up...

Next time: Something involving a family.

I knew he was in a episode but wasn't sure which one. How depressing that it had to be maybe the worse Angel episode in history:eek:
 

Ethan Reigns

Scooby
Joined
Oct 14, 2012
Messages
7,586
Location
Canada
Sineya
This episode comes directly from the news - female genital mutilation is practiced in a number of countries, usually African Islamic countries but certainly not restricted to there. This corresponds to removal of the Ko to eliminate sexual desire. This is one of the more interesting episodes because there are people trying to stop this sort of thing in the world and others trying to retain the existing culture.
 

Mr Trick

Scooby
Joined
Jan 9, 2015
Messages
15,725
Age
41
Location
London, UK
This episode comes directly from the news - female genital mutilation is practiced in a number of countries, usually African Islamic countries but certainly not restricted to there. This corresponds to removal of the Ko to eliminate sexual desire. This is one of the more interesting episodes because there are people trying to stop this sort of thing in the world and others trying to retain the existing culture.

But that's the idea of the episode. Its one thing to have a good idea, its another one all together to turn it into a engrossing 42 mins of television. For me the set up maybe good, but the episode itself is very dull.
 

Oromous

Socially Awkward
Joined
Aug 16, 2020
Messages
650
Age
31
Location
Singapore
Sineya
'Tis a shame, this episode. I laughed quite a lot throughout the episode in spite of TPN claiming that he didn't like it in the beginning of his video. There's even an Asian cast member this time, and as a fellow Chinese Asian, I couldn't be happier... Then I quickly found out why he was repulsed, and I was like, "Oh. I see."

Yeah, it's not a particularly good episode in spite of its amusing moments, mostly due to the uncomfortable notion of the Oden Tal race, where their females' sexual powers make human males force themselves on them. Jesus Christ, who writes this shit?! I didn't pay enough attention to that little detail 'till TPN explained it to me. First it's the clumsy mess that's "Expected" last episode, and now it's this. Angel is quickly spiraling down in writing, and I read it won't be the first "Boys will be boys" episode in Angel that pegs all men as sexist pigs who can't control their urges ("Billy" will be next). And this is only season 1! Christ!

I kinda get what the writers were trying to say, but as TPN put it, the writers in Angel seem to have a tough time properly including feminist themes in a show where the protagonist is a big strapping white male. It's just that much tougher to include themes like that without either a) making it uncomfortable by calling out on a single gender as the guilty party or b) resulting in Angel saving the strong female anyway, thus diluting its intent to empower women. But TPN promised that it's uphill from here, and the writers would eventually learn how to tackle this more sensibly.

Props should given, however, to their attempt, no matter how trivial it is, to subvert the Dragon Lady trope.

I've also read that Faith will be a common appearance on Angel; not sure if that's true, and not sure if I'll like her character enough to think that it's an improvement to the show, but I guess, as it is with all things, we'll see.

That minor short five minute scene aside, I quite enjoyed the rest of the episode for what it is, even the dated cellphone reference (an amusing portrayal to show how out-of-touch Angel chooses to be). I like Jhiera for more than just the actress (the famous Bai Ling)'s ethnic background as I feel that her neutral morality is fitting for the world of Angel where good and evil are blurred, so it's a shame that she never appeared again in the show.

And yes, the Angel dance. I was genuinely shocked and pleasantly surprised.
 
Last edited:

RDHWesley

Odd Individual
Joined
Jan 27, 2019
Messages
135
Location
UK
Oh dear.

It's a small comfort to say that the very worst episode of the show is in the first season, so you can get it over with fairly quickly, but that doesn't change the fact that this is just...well, it's something, I'll say that. The plot is badly written and full of stock, unsympathetic characters, and the one you're actually supposed to be rooting for is just a callous, unthinking plank of wood of a character. She shares no chemistry with David Boreanaz, so the idea that the writers were planning to bring her back to ramp up the sexual tension is laughable. Thankfully, everyone realised how awful this was and it didn't happen. Also, what is the point of the guy who runs the spa? He doesn't need to be there, Jhiera could have found somewhere similar herself.

It has two saving graces, and everyone has already mentioned them: the dancing (one of the best scenes in either series) and the art gallery when Angel starts giving his spiel about Manet's painting. Other than that, this is one of the show's few stinkers.
 

Stake fodder

Soulless
Joined
Feb 6, 2021
Messages
786
Location
Caught on a root
This episode is the second in a row that focuses on exploitation of women, and in both cases, done with too broad strokes. The clipped spinal growths here are obviously an analogy for female genital mutilation, as stated above. However, I actually found a lot to mine here in a larger discussion of women's sexuality, and men's fear of same. Unfortunately, it simultaneously undercuts this theme, like the writers can't make up their minds what side they're on.

The guys dancing was hilarious, and Wesley talks too much, while Angel very little. Angel is so afraid of looking ridiculous that he shuts down, with Cordelia mocking him for "suck[ing] the energy out of the room like a giant black hole of boring despair." Light scenes, but I think they are making a serious point, demonstrating how it is said that men are afraid women will laugh at them, while women are afraid men will kill them. Here we have an example of the first part, with the plot then leading into the second.

At the museum, Angel talks about Baudelaire's "Le Vampire," a dual reference. Obviously, there is a connection to Angel. But this poem is about a woman who has enthralled a man, who hates her, yet feels helpless against her power over him.

Historically, women have often been compared to vampires, their sexual wiles sapping the vitality and will of defenseless men. In silent films, such women were called vamps. The novel, "Dracula," displays the Victorians' fear of female sexuality, how it corrupts women and make them uncontrollable by men, with Dracula himself being the embodiment of the risks of not protecting and proscribing women from unbridled lust and passion.

However, having developed this theme, the episode then begins to justify the male fear. Jhiera - in a skin-tight, peephole top:rolleyes: - draws Angel with her irresistable magnetism. The men of Oden Tal mutilate the women, yet even Jhiera keeps them literally on ice because "when the ko first matures, the girls can't manage it."

This might have been a better episode if Angel, the actual vampire, had not been reduced to a supporting role, and comparisons had been emphasized, instead of just being hinted at. It would have been better if it had focused more on how the men use brutal methods to control women, rather than appearing to concede that the women's sexuality is something that men should fear. Someone mentioned a multi-episode arc, which I guess explains why Jhiera and her society are the main focus, but that is not who we are most interested in, and that also weakens the episode.
 
Top Bottom