I don't know, I find her reaction to Angel and the prospect of demons pretty realistic. We've known Angel a longer time so we know he's one of the good guys, but she's only recently found out that he was keeping a huge part of himself secret from her. Plus she's seen his scary vamp face; something she's unlikely to forget any time soon!As horrible as it sounds. Kate is not my favorite character either. She refuses to understand that Angel is there to help her.
But the point of that scene is more to do with the demon world-human worlds colliding and Trevor not understanding. Its more to do how it progresses Angel's narrative.Cool episode although I don't like Kate. She's got something annoying in her appearance.
Realtionship between Angel and his father reminds me about (don't know why) The Vampire Diaries.
Death of Kate's father was too simple for me. They just bite him. Nah.
Too less Cordy and Wesley.
I agree with the first part but I enjoyed the scenes with Kate and felt sad for her loss. The contrast between Kate's relationship with her father and Angel's relationship with his own was great too. Both fathers were cold and apparently indifferent to their children, but deep down they cared a lot (Liam's father cried at the funeral and was deeply hurt when Liam left).I prefer the flashback story in this episode, and much of the Kate stuff leaves more cold.
I'm not saying they were good parents - though I can't tell for sure what kind of parent Liam's father was from the few flashbacks we saw. Kate's father, in particular, was cold and probably very neglectful in raising Kate. However, I do believe that he loved his daughter and you can see it in how he refused to use Kate again for information and in how he spoke of her, Being a bad parent doesn't equal not loving your children. If only it were that simple...but I actually don't buy that the respected fathers cared that much about their sons. Certainly not in the case of Kate's old man.
Very true, but its just my reading of it that I personally don't think he loved her. Not wanting her involved at the end I think was just gesture on his part or his idea of having moraity.I'm not saying they were good parents - though I can't tell for sure what kind of parent Liam's father was from the few flashbacks we saw. Kate's father, in particular, was cold and probably very neglectful in raising Kate. However, I do believe that he loved his daughter and you can see it in how he refused to use Kate again for information and in how he spoke of her, Being a bad parent doesn't equal not loving your children. If only it were that simple...
Wow this is a great post. I identify A lot with this episode. I have a terrible father, and if I became a vampire he would be the first one I would kill. Yet in the end I would still lose, cause he still won't love me. Killing him won't change that. Darla was extra insightful here and I thought it added a lot to Angels backstory.I love this episode very much. Tim Minear blows my mind away yet again. The flashback scenes in this episode rewrote Angelus for me. Learning about Liam's relationship with his father and how that affected Angelus in his first years as a vampire added a whole other dimension to the character. He moved past the straight forward character he was up until then - evil, insane, arrogant,
I can identify with Liam. He hated his village, the life he had. Liam didn't strike me as the intelectual type, but Angel and Angelus certainly are; the way Liam corrects his father ("Servant, father. We have one servant.") and something he said to Buffy in 'Halloween' - about the women of his day being dull and always wanting to meet an interesting woman - leave me with the idea that the small mindedness of the village disgusted Liam. I believe this explains why he decides to take the whole town and not just his family. Regarding his father, Liam's relationship with him was similar to Wesley's and his dad. Liam's father was strict, disapproving and Liam lived his entire life trying to please his dad to no avail, which fostered resentment on his part. What Liam wanted to do (and tried to do) was to free himself from his father's influence, to not need his approval or love anymore. Naturally, once Liam lost his soul he had to stick it to his father and prove he no longer needed him. I think Darla was particularly insightful here. This piece of dialogue between Darla and Angelus was truly what made me regard the character differently:
Darla: “This contest is ended, is it?”
Angel: “Now I’ve won.”
Darla: “You’re sure?”
Angel: “Of course. I proved who had the power here.”
Darla: “You think?”
Darla: “You’re victory over him took but moments.”
Darla: “But his defeat of you will last life times.”
Angel: “What are you talking about? He can’t defeat me now.”
Darla: “Nor can he ever approve of you – in this world or any other. What we once were informs all that we have become. The same love will infect our hearts – even if they no longer beat. Simple death won’t change that.”
Angel: “Love? - Is this the work of love?”
Darla: “Darling boy. So young. Still so very young.”
The dialogue here is beautiful as is the music. Seeing Angelus without the usual arrogance and self-assurance, so young and naive, is surreal. Being an absolute monster really isn't something that vampires are born with, the appetite to kill is cultivated. Angelus's kills were simple, almost painless (he saved his father for last which can be considered mental torture), but there wasn't any art to it and he didn't seem to take a lot of pleasure in the victims' pain. Once Angelus started to get the hang of it though, he was insatiable.
I agree with the first part but I enjoyed the scenes with Kate and felt sad for her loss. The contrast between Kate's relationship with her father and Angel's relationship with his own was great too. Both fathers were cold and apparently indifferent to their children, but deep down they cared a lot (Liam's father cried at the funeral and was deeply hurt when Liam left).
Side note, the actor who played Liam's father gave a really solid performance.
Agreed the flashback scenes have no relation to the modern day plot. In fact they're actually more interesting THAN the modern day plot. Its still a good episode thoughLike the previous episode, this has grown on me, despite it also seeming kind of forgettable in parts. The main problem with it is that it's two stories going on at the same time, with very little relation to each other. So, both Angel and Kate had rubbish dads? The flashbacks showing the birth of Angelus are the highlight and make up for most of the plot's shortcomings. The scenes with Kate are less interesting, mainly because Trevor Lockely hadn't appeared since 'Sense and Sensitivity', so there's little reason to care about him. Wes and Cordy don't do much either, but this is more Angel and Kate's episode than anyone else's, so having the other characters side-lined is the price you pay.
Overall, it's a pretty decent episode, and those flashbacks are phenomenal; it's a shame they don't blend that well with the Kate storyline that well.