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Discussion of 1.19 "Sanctuary" - Aired 5/2/2000 (WB-US)

Give Us A Kiss

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Sineya
Don't like Buffy in this episode and I just get more annoyed by W&H…
Did like the Fuffy vibes on the rooftop thought :)

This is possibly the only episode discussion without a detailed review by @PassionBecoming (go write one up, PB, it's not too late :p)

The highlight to me is the rooftop conversation between Buffy and Faith, it's just so well acted (Buffy utterly, justifiable furious and Faith so repentant and raw with emotion) and the last time we see them working together for a long time...
That's what fanfiction is for (especially some of the fanfics that you have linked me… )

I enjoy watching Faith work through her guilt and the last scene when she's sat in the cell by herself with a smile on her face is very nice.
Well, the road to redemption can be boring, but always worth it :)
 
PassionBecoming
PassionBecoming
Well, I'm glad someone reads them. Ha!

Mr Trick

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I love that Buffy shows up in this episode, although she does come across as a little petty, especially to those fans that have never seen BtVS.

I enjoy watching Faith work through her guilt and the last scene when she's sat in the cell by herself with a smile on her face is very nice.

Kate really annoys me in this episode. I like how Buffy reacted to her when Kate tried to kick her out of the police station. It would have been nice to see a bit more of Cordy in this episode.

Those Council guys were a little bit silly. Unless they didnt recognise Buffy when she was on the roof top, but they were shooting at both Slayers. They could have easily killed both of them. Which I suppose works in the councils favor since Buffy had quit and Faith had gone rouge.
Interesting point, but then if you've never seen Buffy I don't know why you would be watching Angel?;) I think what your post highlights is that the weakness in the episode is that its a little too busy whereas Five by Five had greater focus and so was more rewarding as a result.

The Council's part in the story I don't mind because it reinvest Wesley and his decision to trust Angel and not go back to his old life is a crucial character moment for him. I don't like Kate in general, but at least her working with Wolfram and Hart has some kind of logic? W&H are the flaw in the episode IMO. They were far more effective in FBF.
I agree, Buffy was totally out of line when she hit Angel, and then it was a little ridiculous that she should be so shocked when he, more by surprise and sheer reflex than any actual intent to hurt her. And, while I would NEVER, under anything even vaguely resembling normal circumstances, advocate a man striking a woman, I do honestly believe that Angel was totally justified in what he did. Something that I read a long time ago seems perfectly applicable in this case:

"A man never strikes a woman.

A woman never strikes a man.

Either action invalidates the other."

Or, as Robert Heinlein's character, Oscar Gordan, said in "Glory Road," "I never hit ladies. That doesn't mean that I won't spank misbehaving children, regardless of gender."
I guess from Buffy's prospective she is the one who has the right to be angry and strike out not Angel, but yeah you're right its understandable and his reaction had nothing to do with malice.

What I love about this episode is that there are so many grey areas in the discourse concerning Faith, Angel and Buffy. Its a strong statement that Angel takes the bold step to try help Faith, and that by standing up to Buffy he is truly moving on. Then again I don't see Buffy as being self-centered. Why wouldn't she chase Faith down after what she did to her in Sunnydale? And as Faith admits herself Buffy was the one who really extended the hand of friendship to her and look how she repaid her. Of course Faith's actions prove than she is truly sorry, but then it raises the question, how far can you go before its too late to make amends? There are compelling arguments on all sides of this story.
 

Give Us A Kiss

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Sineya
Angel gives Faith a place to stay for the night :)

Poor Faith :(

I thought she actually staked him for a second :eek:

Cordy has quite a bruise...

Wes doesn't look too good either...

Angel's getting donuts for Faith :)

Faith is not a rabid animal :mad:

Cordy's leaving because of Faith :(

So, Sunnydale is north from LA, but south from the Bay Area ???

Kate seems to know her X-Files...

Faith, what's wrong ??? :(

She gives him the knife :eek:

Lilah and Lindsay are surprised by what happened to Faith...

Angel, be nice to her :)

Faith is shocked, confused and asking for help...

Wes, you can't aim...

Some people found Wes :eek:

The council wants him back ??? o_O

Angel's saying some sad truths :(

Faith can't apologize :(

Angel finds out about Riley :eek:

Faith apologies :eek:

That's a hungry demon :p

Wes is going against the council while the year before he was part of it...

Faith :(

Faith has a knife, and she's crying :(

Buffy :eek:

Severe cuddling :p

Verbal Bangel fight :D

What is Lindsay planning to do ??? o_O

Wes seems to have come around...

Buffy, shut the hell up :mad::mad::mad:

Faith, continue talking...

At least they are doing a good job taking down the council :)

Kate :rolleyes:

Faith is about to make a confession :eek:

Buffy tells Angel about Riley, at least she moved on :)

Buffy, go :mad:

Faith is in a cell, alone :(

Next time: Teens hunt vamps too...
 

Fuffy Baith

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So, Sunnydale is north from LA, but south from the Bay Area ???
Yea, I think it's suppose to be like where San Luis Obispo is. It's not that far north of LA and Oz mentions going to Monterrey for a gig in Dopplegangland, so I'd imagine Sunnydale being between Monterrey and LA.
 

Ethan Reigns

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Yea, I think it's suppose to be like where San Luis Obispo is. It's not that far north of LA and Oz mentions going to Monterrey for a gig in Dopplegangland, so I'd imagine Sunnydale being between Monterrey and LA.

Sine the Chumash tribe was local, this map:



shows where Sunnydale can be although post-contact, they may have moved north. Grave, the final episode of Season 6 takes place on a coast, so Sunnydale could be anywhere from Ventura to San Luis Obispo. Some people put it near Santa Barbara but I like San Luis Obispo as a place - it is on the coast and has a university with an acclaimed architectural school and it has a population of 49,500 compared to the 38,500 we see on the Sunnydale sign right before the De Soto crashed into it ( and after the final battle where it falls into the crater). However, flying out of there in a DC-10 as Giles does would be a bit sketchy - the Embraer Bandierante 19-seat airliner I took there was about the limit of what they could handle.
 

Fuffy Baith

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. However, flying out of there in a DC-10 as Giles does would be a bit sketchy - the Embraer Bandierante 19-seat airliner I took there was about the limit of what they could handle.
Good info! Backs up the theory. I didn't even think to look into the real Chumash tribe location. As for the airport thing, I think it's like the Zoo and UC Sunnydale, just made up for the show. It's also apparently not too far from the desert. Lol.
 
Antho
Antho
Thank you :) It's nice.
I am glad that my comments please you

Slayrunt

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On the buffy being shocked when angel hit her back thing, I think she was more shocked at him defending faith rather then the actual punch. like the punch proved he was really siding with faith.
But anyway great episode. And my least favourite buffy hair :p
 

Mr Trick

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On the buffy being shocked when angel hit her back thing, I think she was more shocked at him defending faith rather then the actual punch. like the punch proved he was really siding with faith.
But anyway great episode. And my least favourite buffy hair :p
I think she just thought the punch was a step too far, not sure she actually felt it had anything to do with Faith. Think Angel felt Buffy had over stepped the line and was reacting to that.
 

Antho

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"Sanctuary"
, in the continuity of "Five By Five", continues the development of the character of Faith. There is a very symbolic opposition between these two episodes because if the previous one showed a Faith more extreme than usual, she is here extremely calm, or at least she has a less violent, more moderate and more attentive attitude. The arrival of a slayer already brings a lot of problem but then when the second arrives, it does not help anything ! Joss is bold to get Buffy to be the main antagonist. It confronts the two main characters of both series, the two universes (Sunnydale and Los Angeles) and we realize that the distinction between the two of them is more and more pronounced. Although Buffy does not appear in her best day, I find the idea brilliant !

Faith :
She clearly gains my sympathy, I am very touched by her. She is so lost, she is torn, I feel she is unstable, on the breach in fact, as if she has reached a point where everything can still change and where the slightest step towards her can be decisive and pushed her definitively on one side or the other. Between vulnerability and strength, hope and despair, struggle and abandonment, thoughts and actions, good and evil, redemption or damnation, she does not know what to choose ?, what to do ?where is her place ? There are several representative moments of this state of mind :
-When the flash shows her thoughts and we see her once again showing physical violence to Angel while in reality she does nothing. She represses this terrible desire,
-Once Angel is absent, she goes to grab a knife with the intention of using it but in the end she gives it back to Angel,
- Convinced that there is no hope for her, she wants to give up, but Angel persuades her to stop running away and she is sensible to his words.
I think one of the highlights of the episode is that it shows perfectly that Faith is between two totally different minds states.
The title "Sanctuary" also refers to the end of this duality because the prison is a bit like the sanctuary of Faith. It is a place where she chose to stay by making her confession, her mind can peacefully reflect and her soul can atone for her sins and rest in peace ! She has always felt above the laws, there she submits to it. She has found her place, her way and she does not remain by obligation but by will !




Angel/Faith : Two characters that are similar on many points because they have a bit the same route. I love this relationship very much, how they understand each other, help each other. Angel believes in her, at her good background, he held out his hand at the moment where she was most likely to take it. She fell on the ideal person because Angel, redemption he knows it. He gives her a lot of moralizing speech that she needed to hear. He acts as a mentor beside her, the shoulder on which she can rely on. He protects her, reassures her and that touches Faith very much because she is not accustomed to having someone take care of her. The most important thing he does is to not lie to her. He doesn't hide to her that the route she takes is hardly practicable and will require to make a lot of effort towards others, as well as towards herself, who may not be receptive. The hardest thing is to find the strength to forgive oneself, to apologize and to ask for forgiveness while being aware that it is not certain that it will be granted ! Guilt can also make suffer, and it is a difficult feeling to surpass.




Buffy/Faith : Calling Buffy it is forcing Faith to assume her actions in the most difficult way and that's why I understand why she is here. Buffy has every reason to be angry against Faith, I find it hard to not understand her. After, I confess that I am affected by Faith, which makes that subjectively, I am not on the side of Buffy but that does not prevent that I understand her in a way. In fact, from a spectator point of view, if you like Faith, inevitably you are influenced because you have seen the evoution of Faith, and so you may not understand Buffy. But from a more human point of view, after everything Faith did to Buffy, we can understand her if we put ourselves one second in her place.
I would say Buffy is someone who, when she can help, she helps, and she's also a person who likes to have some control over what's going on in her life (and at the same time everyone is a bit like that, no ? ). Faith has always been a free-person in the life of Buffy, uncontrollable element, she always did what she wanted. The jealousy she feels about Buffy is one of the elements that brought her there on the path of evil and the more it consumed her, the more she tried to take Buffy's life (she tried to seduce Angel, she took possession of her body...). The exchange of bodies was a click for her, she realized that to have a better life she must already become better herself. Buffy, I do not think this experience had any effect on her, I think being in the shoes of Faith and being treated like she was by the council made her realizes certain things but I also think that she is tired of trying to come to the aid of a person who constantly refuses, and abuse of her life. She tried to help Faith in the past, maybe not in the right way, maybe she didn't say the good words or she didn't act as needed but at least she tried ! Now, she must think that she was too nice with her. Even if Buffy does not show her best side, I understand the reasons that motivate her behavior and for me her presence and the reproaches she did to Faith are like an electroshock for Faith and it is surely that makes her go directly at the next step, without it, it would probably have been much longer.






Angel/Buffy : This is probably the episode where both realize that each one is evolving separately of the other. Buffy isn't lucky, she arrives in the most ambiguous situations (Angel and Faith enlaced after the attack of the demon) and it's a little normal that upsed her. The tone rises very quickly and everyone defends their interest. Buffy is dishonest, she claims to come because she was worried about Angel while I think it is mostly her revenge on Faith that motivates her. In the arguments, I'm on Angel's side because I feel that Buffy is not in her right, she does not have to come and make her law in the lives of others. I don't forget that Angel did the same thing when he was at Sunnydale on "Pangs" but I don't know I have the impression Buffy comes to get her revenge while Angel had a more noble reason : saving Buffy ! But they both need to stop acting like this ! However, in the acts, I do not take sides because Angel and Buffy have both gone too far by striking (although I noticed that Buffy gave the first shot and she was going to put a second one). The violence between them here shocks me a bit because I think it has a weight and special meaning. Never in their past relationships there has been such a lack of respect between them, apart from the Angelus phase of course. This gesture is the symbol of the confrontation between our two main characters who are no longer too much on the same wavelength because they evolve separately. Now, at the end, when Buffy throws her happiness with Riley to the figure of Angel, there I find her childish and that's why in this story, I support Angel ! Especially that Buffy is not credible for a second. She is not at all convincing or convinced ! I think it's the first and also the only time she says she loves Riley and she tells to Angel : Please, who is she hoping to convince seriously ? She loves Riley, certainly, I do not deny that, but she likes even more Angel otherwise she would not bother to hurt him free. In absolute, she even disrespects Riley by extolling her relationship and her love for him superior to what she has experienced or felt with Angel when she thinks not a word. Finally, it's too bad that it was Angel who went to apologize to her later, certainly it was a bit hard but mostly fair !




Looks like Buffy doesn't like when someone touches Angel :D


Angel/Wesley : In the previous episode Wesley had faith in Faith's humanity but the torture prompted him to review his judgment. I understand that he is no longer too inclined to help Faith, he even treats her as an animal. This is a fairly logical change thinking what he went through. I honestly thought he was going to deliver her to the council because Wesley is a bit of a guy doing what needs to be done, no matter what the consequences. I was glad that he supports Angel, that he proves his loyalty, he does not do it for Faith, but because he believes in Angel, he knows he can handle the situation and I think it is a good proof of confidence. It also marks the evolution between the Wesley on Buffy, very respectful of the rules and Wesley on Angel, who is a bit more human and open-minded.


Buffy/Kate and Angel/Faith : Kate do a small appearance and I find she's still so edgy lol. That said, it's a little normal, she learned the existence of the paranormal, her father died, all this is difficult to accept and she unfortunately redirects all her hatred against Angel that she judges, wrongly, responsible, like the other vampires. What I liked about this episode is that the most human characters (so Kate and Buffy) are the ones with the least noble motives (revenge for Buffy and anger for Kate), while Faith and Angel are the ones who have the most heroic actions (Angel who defends Faith who ends up going to the police) and who are the bearers of hope !
 
Fuffy Baith
Fuffy Baith
Another great analysis!

AnthonyCordova

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The intensity of that scene with Faith, Buffy, Wes and Angel when Buffy comes to town, you could cut it with a knife, so palpable. One of the great strengths of the show AtS was how well they could excel in creating and sustaining dramatic tension. This episode was a characteristic example
 

Oromous

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So, a few things before I get into the episode:

1.) Seeing Sarah Michelle Gellar's name in "Guest-Starring" made me squeal. At least until she actually appeared with Faith in Angel's arms. OOPS! God, I hate these contrived moments when the characters walks in at the WORST time. It's like when the girlfriend walks in when the ex forces herself on the guy's lips.
2.) "Scully's the skeptic." Considering I'm still catching up with the early seasons of The X-Files (finished season 4), this X-Files reference was highly amusing, especially when they weren't just mentioning Scully and Mulder's names without a deeper context like many other TV references in other shows. Even prior to this episode, I felt like it was inevitable that either Angel or Buffy had to make a reference eventually, considering a) it's Joss Whedon the Geek Culture King, and b) they share similar supernatural horror roots, albeit in different sub-genres. Shame The X-Files didn't go down as smoothly as Buffy, or even Angel for that matter.

The episode itself was good in the beginning, but as Faith started to unwrap her journey to redemption, the writing starts to feel a bit rushed and unearned, with Faith jumping from "suicidal rampage" to "it's my fault and I'm sorry" waaaaay too soon. Yes, this can happen realistically to people, feeling the weight of the guilt after realizing your actions AFTER a believable period of time. But Faith has been in this phase of psychotic rage for very, very long, so it's hard to buy into the notion that she's immediately sorry for torturing Wesley and raping Riley AND Buffy. There needed to be more room for Faith to take in what she has done and gradually come to terms that she needs to redeem herself for her actions, NOT immediately announcing to the world that she's sorry. It's the same kind of bad writing that plagued another show's antagonist, Regina Mills from "Once Upon a Time", the same kind of obligatory villain redemption that feels contrived and reminds you that you're watching a TV show, where the writers have to improvise to meet the deadlines (as opposed to cinematic writing quality for a movie). For such a well-written first-parter, the second part suffered a lot in comparison.

What I would prefer to have happened is if Faith was more reluctant to admit guilt for her crimes at the beginning of the episode. Then after some more pep talk from Angel without the unnecessary shoot-out scene, Faith escapes to try and numb herself with the darkness again, Wesley assumes she's gonna hurt people again, but we end up finding her at the police station instead. That would've felt a lot more natural. It's not a matter of whether if Faith is justified in seeking redemption or whether if Buffy should forgive her - it's how fast all this is taking place. Given an episode or two, Faith seeking to redeem herself would've been more believable, and I would've been more sympathetic towards Faith not getting another chance from Buffy (I would still be on Buff's side though, because rape). But not only did the writers rush through the kind of redemption arc Angel spent three Buffy seasons and one Angel season to develop, we ended up in a shoot-out that distracts from what could've been a more meaningful episode devoted entirely to Faith's reflection on the "What now?". A more quiet and mellow episode was needed.

Buffy's reaction was completely justified in my opinion. I would've reacted the same way towards Angel. I've written in detail how I felt about Faith using Buffy's body in icky ways I don't feel comfortable in repeating, and I still stand by my stance now. And Angel defending Faith, regardless of how he related to her sob story, feels very much like the byproduct of '90s writing. Violation of another person's body is rape, regardless of gender. Female on male, female on female, period. Buffy hitting Angel is the least of what I would've done. To further convince you why I'm sooo supportive of Buffy's side here, let the woman speak for herself:

Buffy (to Faith): "I've lost battles before, but NOBODY else has ever made me a victim."

Yeah. That line is more loaded today than it was in the '90s too, I'd imagine, considering the sentiment towards rape victims became stronger and more sensible over the decades. It's also why I'm angry at Angel for not understanding what Faith's violations mean to another person, let alone his ex-lover whom he's still very much in love with. Of all the Bangel moments, this is the worst and most poorly-written one of all, period. Buffy is treated like "the other woman" in this episode when Angel demands for her to go home and take all her rape-drama with her. It's disappointing.

I'll say, however, that the way they framed Angel hitting Buffy back was indeed overdramatic and even sexist, the way they tried to frame it like Angel was wrong for hitting a woman but Buffy wasn't for hitting a man. That was the only part of Buffy's portrayal that I didn't agree with, period, especially how offended she looked after hitting Angel's face TWICE (Angel blocked the second punch).

Also, a funny Youtube comment I found in TPN's Angel Guide video:
Season 1 Angel to Wesley: "In case you've forgotten, we're not in the business of giving up on people."
Season 3 Angel to Wesley: "You're a dead man, Price. Dead. Dead. Dead."

I heard season 3 is a mess, but boy, Angel. Tsk, tsk, tsk.
 
AnthonyCordova
AnthonyCordova
Interesting post! Also, LOVE the X-Files too, especially the early seasons. Late season X-Files still produced the occasional great ep but still...convoluted main arc was a big problem. It stopped making sense

Faded90

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So, a few things before I get into the episode:

1.) Seeing Sarah Michelle Gellar's name in "Guest-Starring" made me squeal. At least until she actually appeared with Faith in Angel's arms. OOPS! God, I hate these contrived moments when the characters walks in at the WORST time. It's like when the girlfriend walks in when the ex forces herself on the guy's lips.
2.) "Scully's the skeptic." Considering I'm still catching up with the early seasons of The X-Files (finished season 4), this X-Files reference was highly amusing, especially when they weren't just mentioning Scully and Mulder's names without a deeper context like many other TV references in other shows. Even prior to this episode, I felt like it was inevitable that either Angel or Buffy had to make a reference eventually, considering a) it's Joss Whedon the Geek Culture King, and b) they share similar supernatural horror roots, albeit in different sub-genres. Shame The X-Files didn't go down as smoothly as Buffy, or even Angel for that matter.

The episode itself was good in the beginning, but as Faith started to unwrap her journey to redemption, the writing starts to feel a bit rushed and unearned, with Faith jumping from "suicidal rampage" to "it's my fault and I'm sorry" waaaaay too soon. Yes, this can happen realistically to people, feeling the weight of the guilt after realizing your actions AFTER a believable period of time. But Faith has been in this phase of psychotic rage for very, very long, so it's hard to buy into the notion that she's immediately sorry for torturing Wesley and raping Riley AND Buffy. There needed to be more room for Faith to take in what she has done and gradually come to terms that she needs to redeem herself for her actions, NOT immediately announcing to the world that she's sorry. It's the same kind of bad writing that plagued another show's antagonist, Regina Mills from "Once Upon a Time", the same kind of obligatory villain redemption that feels contrived and reminds you that you're watching a TV show, where the writers have to improvise to meet the deadlines (as opposed to cinematic writing quality for a movie). For such a well-written first-parter, the second part suffered a lot in comparison.

What I would prefer to have happened is if Faith was more reluctant to admit guilt for her crimes at the beginning of the episode. Then after some more pep talk from Angel without the unnecessary shoot-out scene, Faith escapes to try and numb herself with the darkness again, Wesley assumes she's gonna hurt people again, but we end up finding her at the police station instead. That would've felt a lot more natural. It's not a matter of whether if Faith is justified in seeking redemption or whether if Buffy should forgive her - it's how fast all this is taking place. Given an episode or two, Faith seeking to redeem herself would've been more believable, and I would've been more sympathetic towards Faith not getting another chance from Buffy (I would still be on Buff's side though, because rape). But not only did the writers rush through the kind of redemption arc Angel spent three Buffy seasons and one Angel season to develop, we ended up in a shoot-out that distracts from what could've been a more meaningful episode devoted entirely to Faith's reflection on the "What now?". A more quiet and mellow episode was needed.

Buffy's reaction was completely justified in my opinion. I would've reacted the same way towards Angel. I've written in detail how I felt about Faith using Buffy's body in icky ways I don't feel comfortable in repeating, and I still stand by my stance now. And Angel defending Faith, regardless of how he related to her sob story, feels very much like the byproduct of '90s writing. Violation of another person's body is rape, regardless of gender. Female on male, female on female, period. Buffy hitting Angel is the least of what I would've done. To further convince you why I'm sooo supportive of Buffy's side here, let the woman speak for herself:

Buffy (to Faith): "I've lost battles before, but NOBODY else has ever made me a victim."

Yeah. That line is more loaded today than it was in the '90s too, I'd imagine, considering the sentiment towards rape victims became stronger and more sensible over the decades. It's also why I'm angry at Angel for not understanding what Faith's violations mean to another person, let alone his ex-lover whom he's still very much in love with. Of all the Bangel moments, this is the worst and most poorly-written one of all, period. Buffy is treated like "the other woman" in this episode when Angel demands for her to go home and take all her rape-drama with her. It's disappointing.

I'll say, however, that the way they framed Angel hitting Buffy back was indeed overdramatic and even sexist, the way they tried to frame it like Angel was wrong for hitting a woman but Buffy wasn't for hitting a man. That was the only part of Buffy's portrayal that I didn't agree with, period, especially how offended she looked after hitting Angel's face TWICE (Angel blocked the second punch).

Also, a funny Youtube comment I found in TPN's Angel Guide video:
Season 1 Angel to Wesley: "In case you've forgotten, we're not in the business of giving up on people."
Season 3 Angel to Wesley: "You're a dead man, Price. Dead. Dead. Dead."

I heard season 3 is a mess, but boy, Angel. Tsk, tsk, tsk.
Good post. I’ve got a lot of issues with this episode in that this episode is like you say Faith finally crashing back to earth and feeling what she’s done. It should have been cathartic for the viewer and we should have had more insight into Faith’s state of mind and her motivations for going to the mayor and her actions against Buffy - obviously it’s something we all have our headcannons for but I’d have liked to have heard more from Faith. I feel like this episode is more about Angel than Faith’s guilt, it’s mostly Angel’s usual redemption platitudes, I feel like the only real insight we get into Faith this episode is when she’s talking about Buffy ‘only one person ever tried to be my friend’ and the scene on the rooftop with Buffy.

I agree about the punch scene I’m not sure what that was about and the end scene where Buffy talks aboutRiley I pretty much totally disregard because she’s so ooc and it’s done basically to get Angel over to Buffy to have a fight with Riley. The episode is set up to make Angel the hero which is understandable because it’s his show and Buffy goes back to being perfectly reasonable about it once she’s back in her own show

I know Buffy gets a lot of criticism for this episode which I don’t agree with (other than the two above scenes) but I actually find Angel unbearable in this episode. Now firstly I adore Faith she’s second only to Buffy in my favourite characters but Angel pretty much completely dismisses Cordy, Wes and Buffy’s feelings in this episode as irrelevant, Faith has no automatic right to peoples forgiveness. I feel like the conclusion to the episode is that there really IS consequences to your actions and forgiveness sometimes has to be earned. Plus don’t get me started on Angel’s ‘not in my city’ rant, as if Buffy needs permission on what she does in LA.I love Angel but he does tend to stray into sanctimonious at times

There is a few scenes in this episode I love but I just find it disappointing that it’s more about driving Angel’s story rather than giving us closure (temporarily at least) on Faith’s ‘rogue slayer’ arc.
 

Oromous

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Plus don’t get me started on Angel’s ‘not in my city’ rant, as if Buffy needs permission on what she does in LA.I love Angel but he does tend to stray into sanctimonious at times
The whole "not in my city" line was so cringeworthy and felt like Angel was channeling the Batman imitation in him. Like I get that Buffy has used this line in the context of Sunnydale before, but Buffy 1) is not the bad guy that needs to get out of Angel's city, and 2) as I've mentioned, has justification to feel vengeful for everything Faith has done to her and her body, so why was Angel so pissy about that and asked her to get out? It's ridiculous and doesn't feel in-character for Angel to be so insensitive and thickheaded.
 
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I love this episode. Its rapidly becoming one of my favourites to re-watch when I watch Angel season one in sequence, and its one of my favourites in the entire Buffyverse.

Eliza's performance is just so special, she really does it for me in this episode; knocks it out of the park.

Angel plays the caring, doting character for Faith really well, and I love that about him in this episode.

I love the involvement of the three guys from the watcher's council. They are grounded, believable and down to earth. They're interactions with Wesley are great and I particularly like the leader guy with the gravelly voice who smokes.

The "cutaway" scenes to the Wolfram & Hart crew are really well performed and just great. I love this incarnation of W&H, Lindsey being my favourite character (much better than his season five return tenure in my opinion). I also prefer W&H when Lee and Holland are involved (even though I know Holland isn't in this episode).

Its interesting that despite being such a great episode, Cordy is in fact on vacation and plays no part in it!

Of course, its always great to see Sarah on Angel, too.

I maybe only like the episode 'Deep Down' from Angel season four more than this, though I might just be saying that 'cause I'm fresh off of watching this one :p

A solid 8.7/10 from me :)
 

RDHWesley

Odd Individual
Joined
Jan 27, 2019
Messages
110
Location
UK
This almost feels like part of a different story compared to 'Five By Five', as this is more of a blockbuster movie, whereas the previous episode was far more intimate and visceral. Maybe if they'd both been done by the same writer, we wouldn't have so much of a disconnect, but this is still very strong. Angel's scenes with Faith are beautifully written and acted; particularly his comment about her making it through the next minute; this has so many connections with wider issues of depression and anxiety that people can relate to; it's perfect.

The demon that Wolfram and Hart sends to kill the two of them is awesome as well; shame it doesn't do more in the episode. More than anything else, this episode highlights for me just why I find Faith to be a far more sympathetic character than Buffy. Buffy is understandably hurt by what Faith did over on BtVS Season Four, but her unwillingness to allow Faith the opportunity to change and develop is despicable. She can take her sanctimonious self back to Sunnydale. That final scene where Angel tells her to go home is very cathartic. This also signals the series cutting the cord between it and BtVS, allowing both shows to exist separately and do their own things, which is what needed to happen before the season was over.

There are some minor quibbles (Cordy does nothing at all, and as said, Buffy is very irritating), but this is still a terrific conclusion to the Faith two-parter, with brilliant emotional writing and an exciting rooftop scene. Also, Wesley has some of his finest moments with the Watchers' Elite, especially that syringe being thrown into Weatherby's neck.
 
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