• Thank you for visiting Buffy-Boards. You obviously have exceptional taste. We just want you to know that:
    1. You really should register so you can chat with us!
    2. Twelve thousand people can't be wrong.
    3. Buffy-Boards loves you.
    4. See 1 through 3.
    Come on, register already!

Discussion of 1.22 "To Shanshu in L.A" - Aired 5/23/2000 (WB-US)

Flannen

Flannix
Joined
Mar 7, 2009
Messages
3,544
Age
32
Location
UK
Wolfram & Hart summon a demon and charge him with the task of separating Angel from the Powers That Be. While Angel is busy dealing with this threat, Lindsey and his coworkers are working on summoning something else which will make Angel's unlife a lot more interesting.
Source: TV.com

Discuss this episode here!
 

Jules

Bite Me
Joined
Jun 18, 2003
Messages
4,057
Age
37
Location
England
Black Thorn
Poor Cordy. She had such a character change throughout this episode. At the start she was self obsessed, she didnt even acknowledge Angel's possible death, then she turned very sweet when she was trying to connect with Angel, then she went all empathic after her visions off all the people suffering.

I also felt very sorry for Angel as well. Its ironic that at the start of the show Doyle was sent to try and bring Angel more into the world and connect him to people but even by the end of the show and with Cordy and Wes around he still didnt care about dying.

The ending was such a good cliff hanger.
 

EvilWillow

Scooby
Joined
Oct 16, 2011
Messages
847
Location
Wonderfalls
I wanted to point out how fantastic Charisma's acting is in this episode. I mean, I was convinced that she was really in the most extreme pain imaginable.
 
Bluebird
Bluebird
[No message]

itssmiletime

Potential
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
377
Age
26
Location
Sydney
Imo, the best episode of S1. of ATS. One of the most inspirational episodes in the Buffyverse. Everything about ATS in here: redemption, love, futures, friendship, family, evil. Angel cutting off Lindsey's hand? Quite possibly the most shocking moment of the series so far, rivalled by Darla in the box.
 
PassionBecoming
PassionBecoming
[No message]

Wesley Pryce

Angel Investigations
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
743
Age
43
Location
Georgia
Black Thorn
GREAT episode,and one of the greatest season finales of any series on tv EVER. :) :cool:
 

Cordy_Chase

Tact is just not saying true stuff. I'll pass.
Joined
Jun 9, 2013
Messages
619
Age
34
Location
California
Sineya
Easily the best season finale in the series (as much as I also enjoyed the Pylea 2-part season 2 finale, it had one major flaw that I can't overlook but I won't discuss that here because it's irrelevant).
David Greenwalt hit it out of the park! The story was smart, raw and compelling and the acting brilliant. Charisma Carpenter shined.

Everything came together so well. Right down to the homeless woman vision which not only served effectively as the controlling factor that highlighted the evolving effect multiple visions in a row had on Cordelia but was also very mindful that even the simplest of situations are significant. One could also assess that Angel's having to save a homeless person parallels with his rat-eating street urchin self that's flashbacked to in 'Orpheus'. The way he looked it seemed an awful lot like he slept in alleys or park benches during that time.

There was also a stunning parallel in the scene in which Cordy bought the art supplies in her self-given quest to find Angel a hobby.
Cordy "Oh, no. I was just looking for something for a friend. I thought maybe if he had a hobby... - He's a little detached from things."
Art Woman: "Well, they say art is the best therapy for that."
Cordy: "Really?"
Art Woman: "Sure, they use it in mental institutions all the time. You get the patients drawing and working with clay - helps them to get back in touch."
Cordy: "Well, he is not crazy or anything. He's - just different?"

This dialogue goes hand in hand with the Angel Cordy encountered in her what-if verse in 'Birthday', his fate had she not been in his life.
(The what-if verse was undeniable fake characterized by several subtle flaws but I do believe Angel's condition apart from his having the visions was a truth among them, recall the visions were only the cherry on top, it was primarily caused by his having to deal with Doyle's death alone).

I saw very strong symbolism in Angel's apartment/the A.I office being blown up. That was the office which was established with Doyle so it was fitting that the first episode that really moved on from his story would contain a metaphor for a new start and Angel ripping Lockley a new one was a Hallelujah chorus to me, absolutely long overdue!
"I'm real sick and tired of your attitude!" is a line of hers in that dialogue. Well, I was real sick and tired of HER attitude! I never thought she brought anything to the show's main plot to begin with and all due respect, her father brought his death on himself by working with the wrong people then directly refused to be saved. That's NOT Angel's problem so at this point she was just being a prejudice bitch and needed a verbal slap in the face!

What was really spotlighted in this episode, however, was the eye opening experience for both Angel and Cordy. This was when he recognized Cordy's value to him and was a huge reality check for her, the first step in her character evolution.
"Cordelia. I'm gonna fix this. Promise. I'm gonna get you back. I need you back."
"I saw them all and they're in so much pain. We have to help them."

The facial deliveries were so strong that the dialogue wasn't even necessary, one of my favorite things about David Boreanaz in particular, is his ability to capture you with those boyish eyes.
The way Angel's face lit up when Cordy was revived and looked over at him was delightful and after she had to go through all that pain, for her first reaction to be the need to help all those suffering people in that stream of visions was astounding.
"I know what's out there now. We have a lot of evil to fight, a lot of people to help."

I must go back and point out that this episode is a favorite which I watch a lot and the doctor's statement "They brought her in a few hours ago, I don't know what happened." never ceases to deliver a heavy impact on me. Cordy was in that excruciating vision stream for HOURS, holy crap!

Why they took that long to contact Angel is among a few concerns.

In the scene when the Cordy was first hit with the never-ending visions, her writhing and screaming on the ground obviously drew some attention but no one seemed all that concerned, they just basically stood there and watched. The only one who rushed to do anything was the woman who had a few minutes earlier sold her art supplies. WTF people?

As Angel rushes into the hospital room the doctor gives orders to "Try another five mil of Ativan", but she classifies the fit as a psychotic episode in which case Ativan wouldn't make sense as that drug is for anxiety but I believe the diagnosis is the error.
Psychosis is characterized by delusions, hallucinations and other forms of displacement from reality as portrayed by the what-if verse Angel in 'Birthday' (another example is the institution Buffy in 'Normal Again').
Hospitals use the injection form of lorazepam (the generic name of Ativan) to treat a seizure emergency classified as status epilepticus which is when the convulsions won't stop. From a medical perspective, that's what was going on with Cordy but seizures are NOT associated with psychosis.

It felt like that doctor was being a bit liberal, this was indicated to be the second 5 mil dose in the span of a few hours and the usual adult injection given for convulsions is 4mil. While I get that Cordy became a startling subject after one dose failed, Ativan is a controlled substance because it has a high risk of abuse and dependency and has been reported to in some cases cause a host of severe side effects including euphoria, confusion, depression, suicidal thoughts and hallucinations. Overdosing and mixing with other substances can cause death.

I'm no expert but from my research that's what it seems.
Source: Ativan Injection - Side Effects, Uses, Dosage, Overdose, Pregnancy, Alcohol | RxWiki

I also want to know how the hell they managed a CAT scan with her thrashing around.
Sorry, this is quite a bit of hair splitting but that's how you know I was engaged.

A couple of curiosities:
*When the doctor said "I have to warn you if we don't find a way to stop it..." I want to know what the end of that sentence would have been. Would they have had to put her in an induced coma?
*How exactly did they get it to stop or did it stop on its own?
Overall a knockout.
 

Mr Trick

Scooby
Joined
Jan 9, 2015
Messages
14,809
Age
40
Location
London, UK
Easily the best season finale in the series (as much as I also enjoyed the Pylea 2-part season 2 finale, it had one major flaw that I can't overlook but I won't discuss that here because it's irrelevant).
David Greenwalt hit it out of the park! The story was smart, raw and compelling and the acting brilliant. Charisma Carpenter shined.

Everything came together so well. Right down to the homeless woman vision which not only served effectively as the controlling factor that highlighted the evolving effect multiple visions in a row had on Cordelia but was also very mindful that even the simplest of situations are significant. One could also assess that Angel's having to save a homeless person parallels with his rat-eating street urchin self that's flashbacked to in 'Orpheus'. The way he looked it seemed an awful lot like he slept in alleys or park benches during that time.

There was also a stunning parallel in the scene in which Cordy bought the art supplies in her self-given quest to find Angel a hobby.
Cordy "Oh, no. I was just looking for something for a friend. I thought maybe if he had a hobby... - He's a little detached from things."
Art Woman: "Well, they say art is the best therapy for that."
Cordy: "Really?"
Art Woman: "Sure, they use it in mental institutions all the time. You get the patients drawing and working with clay - helps them to get back in touch."
Cordy: "Well, he is not crazy or anything. He's - just different?"

This dialogue goes hand in hand with the Angel Cordy encountered in her what-if verse in 'Birthday', his fate had she not been in his life.
(The what-if verse was undeniable fake characterized by several subtle flaws but I do believe Angel's condition apart from his having the visions was a truth among them, recall the visions were only the cherry on top, it was primarily caused by his having to deal with Doyle's death alone).

I saw very strong symbolism in Angel's apartment/the A.I office being blown up. That was the office which was established with Doyle so it was fitting that the first episode that really moved on from his story would contain a metaphor for a new start and Angel ripping Lockley a new one was a Hallelujah chorus to me, absolutely long overdue!
"I'm real sick and tired of your attitude!" is a line of hers in that dialogue. Well, I was real sick and tired of HER attitude! I never thought she brought anything to the show's main plot to begin with and all due respect, her father brought his death on himself by working with the wrong people then directly refused to be saved. That's NOT Angel's problem so at this point she was just being a prejudice bitch and needed a verbal slap in the face!

What was really spotlighted in this episode, however, was the eye opening experience for both Angel and Cordy. This was when he recognized Cordy's value to him and was a huge reality check for her, the first step in her character evolution.
"Cordelia. I'm gonna fix this. Promise. I'm gonna get you back. I need you back."
"I saw them all and they're in so much pain. We have to help them."

The facial deliveries were so strong that the dialogue wasn't even necessary, one of my favorite things about David Boreanaz in particular, is his ability to capture you with those boyish eyes.
The way Angel's face lit up when Cordy was revived and looked over at him was delightful and after she had to go through all that pain, for her first reaction to be the need to help all those suffering people in that stream of visions was astounding.
"I know what's out there now. We have a lot of evil to fight, a lot of people to help."

I must go back and point out that this episode is a favorite which I watch a lot and the doctor's statement "They brought her in a few hours ago, I don't know what happened." never ceases to deliver a heavy impact on me. Cordy was in that excruciating vision stream for HOURS, holy crap!

Why they took that long to contact Angel is among a few concerns.

In the scene when the Cordy was first hit with the never-ending visions, her writhing and screaming on the ground obviously drew some attention but no one seemed all that concerned, they just basically stood there and watched. The only one who rushed to do anything was the woman who had a few minutes earlier sold her art supplies. WTF people?

As Angel rushes into the hospital room the doctor gives orders to "Try another five mil of Ativan", but she classifies the fit as a psychotic episode in which case Ativan wouldn't make sense as that drug is for anxiety but I believe the diagnosis is the error.
Psychosis is characterized by delusions, hallucinations and other forms of displacement from reality as portrayed by the what-if verse Angel in 'Birthday' (another example is the institution Buffy in 'Normal Again').
Hospitals use the injection form of lorazepam (the generic name of Ativan) to treat a seizure emergency classified as status epilepticus which is when the convulsions won't stop. From a medical perspective, that's what was going on with Cordy but seizures are NOT associated with psychosis.

It felt like that doctor was being a bit liberal, this was indicated to be the second 5 mil dose in the span of a few hours and the usual adult injection given for convulsions is 4mil. While I get that Cordy became a startling subject after one dose failed, Ativan is a controlled substance because it has a high risk of abuse and dependency and has been reported to in some cases cause a host of severe side effects including euphoria, confusion, depression, suicidal thoughts and hallucinations. Overdosing and mixing with other substances can cause death.

I'm no expert but from my research that's what it seems.
Source: Ativan Injection - Side Effects, Uses, Dosage, Overdose, Pregnancy, Alcohol | RxWiki

I also want to know how the hell they managed a CAT scan with her thrashing around.
Sorry, this is quite a bit of hair splitting but that's how you know I was engaged.

A couple of curiosities:
*When the doctor said "I have to warn you if we don't find a way to stop it..." I want to know what the end of that sentence would have been. Would they have had to put her in an induced coma?
*How exactly did they get it to stop or did it stop on its own?
Overall a knockout.
Better than the fifth season finale? I do like this episode and it sets up the second season very well.
 

Cordy_Chase

Tact is just not saying true stuff. I'll pass.
Joined
Jun 9, 2013
Messages
619
Age
34
Location
California
Sineya
Better than the fifth season finale? I do like this episode and it sets up the second season very well.
MUCH! I'm not a fifth season fan, sorry. Or fourth. I might have been though had they not totally abandoned Cordelia and her memory in oblivion other than 'You're Welcome'.

Very good point, this episode does set up the second season quite nicely.
 

Mr Trick

Scooby
Joined
Jan 9, 2015
Messages
14,809
Age
40
Location
London, UK
MUCH! I'm not a fifth season fan, sorry. Or fourth. I might have been though had they not totally abandoned Cordelia and her memory in oblivion other than 'You're Welcome'.

Very good point, this episode does set up the second season quite nicely.
Not being a season 5 fan still doesn't stop you from liking certain episodes:D I thought Not Fade Away was as good a season finale as you are likely to get.
 

Mr Trick

Scooby
Joined
Jan 9, 2015
Messages
14,809
Age
40
Location
London, UK
On this watch I'm not as excited by this episode as I was. There are too many random moments, and some of the prophecy stuff feels a bit flat. The middle part of the episode drags, but the last ten minutes or very excited.
 

Carrie Hopewell

Little girl lost in the woods
Joined
Jun 5, 2016
Messages
2,722
Age
24
Location
Lisbon, Portugal
Sineya
This is the only episode of the season in which Kate enerves me. Her attitude towards vampires has never been the best one, but I feel like they exaggerated the worst aspects of Kate's personality in this episode alone. Unfortunately, this attitude will continue into season 2. It was a great moment when Angel told her off.

Small observations:
- David Nabbit's cameo made me feel sorry for the guy, again.
- Charisma's performance was very strong in this episode, in particular at the hospital. Cordy's friendship with Angel is beautiful - I love how she bought him art supplies to cheer him up and I loved their little moment when Cordy got better.
- The Wesley/Cordy/Angel friendship is truly highlighted this episode. Angel looks devastated when both of them end up in the hospital. I think he only realizes that he does have a family when Cordy and Wesley's lives are threatened. The scene in the kitchen is sweet.
- Nice use of Gunn's character in this episode.
- The Voca demon was lame, but effective.
- It's the last apparition of the Oracle's and it's quite enjoyable. It's interesting that Angel only sought their council when his friends were in danger, but not when Wes suggested. He doesn't much care about his own life. It's a nice parallel to IWRY. Angel first visits the Oracles regarding being turned human and they make a vague reference to his humanity being a reward. In his second visit, he begs the Oracles to give his old life back so he can save Buffy.
- I enjoyed the ritual scene and how uninterested Angel was in it - his only concern was getting the scroll. I thought cutting off Lindsey's hand was a nice touch, the villains are usually killed, not dismembered.
- Was Darla's return prophecised? Since the forces of good - the PTB - are to grant Angel his humanity, the forces of evil have to counteract by bringing back Darla to destroy Angel. Angel's part of the prophecy isn't specific to him though. Is Darla's? If Darla is a part of the prophecy (like Connor?), then wouldn't that make the Shanshu much more likely to happen to Angel (and not Spike or any other ensoulled vamp)?

About the actual prophecy and what it means to Angel:
Wesley first translates 'Shanshu' to mean 'death'. This doesn't concern Angel and Wes conjectures that there is nothing Angel wants, nothing he desires (or rather, every thing he desires - Buffy, being human - is out of his reach) so Angel can't truly be a part of humanity. (Writing this made me remember Wesley and how there was nothing he wanted after Fred's death.) Angel may have a soul, but that doesn't make him human, he is incredibly cut off from the world that season. In Buffy S2 and even S3, Angel was happier and more involved in humanity. I believe the reason for this was a mixture of: Buffy's love, for one; having something personal to fight for (Buffy's life) or the relative easiness of helping people in Sunnydale (no lawyers, fewer people). Having the possibility to Shanshu gives Angel, at the very least, something personal to fight for (humanity) which lets him keep his head in the game and the promise of something he desires (love, family). The amazing irony of all this is that in the very next season the writers are going to take all this hope away from Angel and make him even more miserable. Poor guy.

This episode is excellent and exciting, but the more existential aspects were better handled in the previous episode ('Blind Date'). This one doesn't speak to me as personally. This episode contrasts well with 'City Of' because it's so much brighter and hopeful.

Kind of off-topic, what does this mean?

Voca: "He is in the possession of the scroll. His connection to the Powers That Be is complete."
Lilah: "He hasn't had time to make a full study of the text."
Voca: "No, and he won't. All avenues to the Powers shall be cut off from him and the scroll returned to us."

Why did Angel need to read the text to complete his connection to the PTB? Isn't a prophecy supposed to happen regardless of you reading it or not? It seems like if Angel didn't have the scroll, Voca wouldn't have gone after the Oracles. Unfortunately, the Oracles don't get a chance to tell Angel who the Prophecy is for or if it will actually happen. And how can you sign a prophecy away? The prophecy comes from the good side, so W&H shouldn't be able to change that. I think? Prophecies are weird. They always need to happen, but you never know how. And who writes them? Sahjhan wrote a fake prophecy but it came true anyway. How does that work?
 

Mr Trick

Scooby
Joined
Jan 9, 2015
Messages
14,809
Age
40
Location
London, UK
This is the only episode of the season in which Kate enerves me. Her attitude towards vampires has never been the best one, but I feel like they exaggerated the worst aspects of Kate's personality in this episode alone. Unfortunately, this attitude will continue into season 2. It was a great moment when Angel told her off.

Small observations:
- David Nabbit's cameo made me feel sorry for the guy, again.
- Charisma's performance was very strong in this episode, in particular at the hospital. Cordy's friendship with Angel is beautiful - I love how she bought him art supplies to cheer him up and I loved their little moment when Cordy got better.
- The Wesley/Cordy/Angel friendship is truly highlighted this episode. Angel looks devastated when both of them end up in the hospital. I think he only realizes that he does have a family when Cordy and Wesley's lives are threatened. The scene in the kitchen is sweet.
- Nice use of Gunn's character in this episode.
- The Voca demon was lame, but effective.
- It's the last apparition of the Oracle's and it's quite enjoyable. It's interesting that Angel only sought their council when his friends were in danger, but not when Wes suggested. He doesn't much care about his own life. It's a nice parallel to IWRY. Angel first visits the Oracles regarding being turned human and they make a vague reference to his humanity being a reward. In his second visit, he begs the Oracles to give his old life back so he can save Buffy.
- I enjoyed the ritual scene and how uninterested Angel was in it - his only concern was getting the scroll. I thought cutting off Lindsey's hand was a nice touch, the villains are usually killed, not dismembered.
- Was Darla's return prophecised? Since the forces of good - the PTB - are to grant Angel his humanity, the forces of evil have to counteract by bringing back Darla to destroy Angel. Angel's part of the prophecy isn't specific to him though. Is Darla's? If Darla is a part of the prophecy (like Connor?), then wouldn't that make the Shanshu much more likely to happen to Angel (and not Spike or any other ensoulled vamp)?

About the actual prophecy and what it means to Angel:
Wesley first translates 'Shanshu' to mean 'death'. This doesn't concern Angel and Wes conjectures that there is nothing Angel wants, nothing he desires (or rather, every thing he desires - Buffy, being human - is out of his reach) so Angel can't truly be a part of humanity. (Writing this made me remember Wesley and how there was nothing he wanted after Fred's death.) Angel may have a soul, but that doesn't make him human, he is incredibly cut off from the world that season. In Buffy S2 and even S3, Angel was happier and more involved in humanity. I believe the reason for this was a mixture of: Buffy's love, for one; having something personal to fight for (Buffy's life) or the relative easiness of helping people in Sunnydale (no lawyers, fewer people). Having the possibility to Shanshu gives Angel, at the very least, something personal to fight for (humanity) which lets him keep his head in the game and the promise of something he desires (love, family). The amazing irony of all this is that in the very next season the writers are going to take all this hope away from Angel and make him even more miserable. Poor guy.

This episode is excellent and exciting, but the more existential aspects were better handled in the previous episode ('Blind Date'). This one doesn't speak to me as personally. This episode contrasts well with 'City Of' because it's so much brighter and hopeful.

Kind of off-topic, what does this mean?

Voca: "He is in the possession of the scroll. His connection to the Powers That Be is complete."
Lilah: "He hasn't had time to make a full study of the text."
Voca: "No, and he won't. All avenues to the Powers shall be cut off from him and the scroll returned to us."

Why did Angel need to read the text to complete his connection to the PTB? Isn't a prophecy supposed to happen regardless of you reading it or not? It seems like if Angel didn't have the scroll, Voca wouldn't have gone after the Oracles. Unfortunately, the Oracles don't get a chance to tell Angel who the Prophecy is for or if it will actually happen. And how can you sign a prophecy away? The prophecy comes from the good side, so W&H shouldn't be able to change that. I think? Prophecies are weird. They always need to happen, but you never know how. And who writes them? Sahjhan wrote a fake prophecy but it came true anyway. How does that work?
It does seem to be in character for Kate though. And its logical that a person of the law would be anti-vampire. I am completely on Angel's side when he tells her off also:D

Never really liked his character. I could tell the actor had talent, but never really believed the character and just found him quite annoying.

Really like this episode and the last shot of the season is the perfect way to get you pumped for the second season!:)
 

Give Us A Kiss

Fuffy Apologist
Joined
Feb 4, 2015
Messages
2,655
Sineya
Cordy, it's hard to translate non-human languages...

Angel, it sure didn't make you laugh.

Lindsay=junior partner ??? I thought he would be promoted to senior partner o_O

David is back, with a cape :rolleyes:

The ring of fire brings demons to W&H ??? o_O

A wealthy man with no life ??? not surprising :p

The prophecy says Angel is going to die, I think it happens sometime in 2016...

Visions hurt :(

That demon wants Angel to have to contact to TPTB, I would run...

Kate :rolleyes:

Slime demon ??? He must be slimy :p

Cordy, you are hungry...

Sure Angel has desires, such as the desire to have sex with Buffy :D

Wes, you shouldn't have eaten Cordy's donut :mad:

Give Angel a pet rock, most suitable for his lifestyle :)

He's gonna kill TPTB :eek:

Cordy, don't bother getting him anything...

Demon :eek:

At least Cordy can afford a cellphone.

Poor Cordy, probably her worst vision yet :(

Angel is staying calm, I probably wouldn't be able to stay this calm in a similar situation.

Poor Cordy :(

What happened ??? :eek:

Kate :mad:

Poor Angel :(

At least Cordy's stable :)

TPTB have been murdered :(

Damn it Gunn, you can't just stake Angel...

People are tied up, W&H have attended the ritual, this is not good.

Angel found them, and he's fighting :)

That demon scares me, I wonder what's under that mask...

He's made of termites :eek:

Lindsay, give him the scroll...

Wes is back :)

and Cordy has snapped out of it too :)

Cordy, give Angel his pint of blood in a mug...

Cordy, Angel is a vampire, making him uncroakable :p

Angel becomes human again ??? :eek:

What is in that box anyways ???

It's Darla :eek:

Next time: A Faith cameo and a brand new season :D
 

Antho

Scooby
Joined
Nov 30, 2016
Messages
2,029
Age
26
Location
Montauban (France)



Season 1 ends in apotheosis because for me this last episode is undoubtedly the best. It is a successful finale that enjoys many upsets alternating sadness, astonishment, horror and joy, which only makes it even tastier. To all of this I also add the action, because the fight of Angel against Vocah was really good and taking, as well as the rhythm because the events take place at high speed and I was caught in it. Although spilled with gusting, the fantastic is only the surface, which makes the power and depth of the episode is the relationship with humanity, how the evolution of the characters is proved and the turning point that the series takes from this observation. Between the pilot and this final, the personality development of the characters can only be noted :

-Angel : At the very beginning, he is terribly confined to himself, he is like an outcast in a world to which he thinks he does not belong. Doyle took him out of his gloom, a friendly relationship was born between them and this privileged trust placed between them offered a Angel much more open, who entrust himself. Unfortunately the death of Doyle has weakened, wounded this new Angel who again confined to himself after this tragedy. Throughout Season 1 he accepted the help of others but he also, very often, made decisions and acted alone. Despite the ties woven with Cordelia and Wesley, he remains a loner. He saves human lives but he does not flourish with them, not like them, because he does not aspire to any evolution, certain that his vampire state is permanent. When Vocah plunges Cordelia into madness, gets rid of Wesley, kills the oracles (what a pity I loved them), Angel realizes that he lost all that made sense of his life and the fight he is leading. His friends are his weakness but also his greatest strength, we can pass through them to reach him but it is also thanks to them that he does not sink, that he is connected to reality and to his humanity. They are also the ones who remember him the reasons why he fights in his moments of doubt, them who push him to give the best of himself. Angel becomes aware of his absolute need to have Wesley and Cordelia close to him. He fights for him and for his friends. Lyndsey has paid the price with his hand cut off and he can blame it on himself, Angel had warned him. The Shanshu appears as a possible reward, a possible evolution, and the smile Angel shows proves that, now, he has desires because he knows things can change for him, he knows that the efforts he makes can enable him to reach the light.





-Cordelia : She has also evolved greatly. She went from superficial, egocentric girl to someone more sensitive, deeper. I love it when she suggests to Angel to buy a pet, or when she goes to buy paint stuff, it is so attentive and touching as gesture. After being assaulted with visions making her feel all the trouble of the world (a little like Dark Willow in season 6) she can not remain insensitive. Even if the previous episodes showed a less superficial Cordelia, I think it was this traumatic experience that allowed Cordelia to be completely detached from what she was in order to become a much more mature, stronger woman, a heroine ! She made me a lot of pain in the hospital but at least Angel was at her bedside (Angel : "I Want you back, I need you back"). I see that he is deeply attached to her and it is not something he particularly shows until now.





-Wesley : From the beginning he does not appear being sure on his skills, nor his place in the group. He never succeeded to rise above his father's expectations and he always feared that it would be the same with his friends. Moreover, he knows that he arrived after the death of Doyle and he had the sensation of occupied a place already taken. During the season he gained maturity, confidence, but he also proved his confidence. There, he makes a mistake about the meaning of the word "Shanshu", and he openly admits it, as he had confessed his wrongs to Faith, he really grew up and learned from the time he was a watcher. He now has his place in the group !



Symbolically, the explosion of local reflects these evolutions. Nothing will ever be the same again. Angel will be more open, Cordelia more empathetic and Wesley more integrated. Now they form a family ! "We are family" !

The characters of Kate and Gunn are more developed too and we can briefly draw their future. Kate is surely the character most connected with normality. She has discovered the occult world and she is struggling to truly face and accept it. As a comparison she does not handle it as well as Scully. Basically, I like Kate and I understand perfectly that she is angry after the murder of her father, I only find it a little tiring that she redirects this hatred against Angel. I'm glad he put her back in place, I think she needs it. I hope she will succeeded to cash the trick, that she will succeed in understanding the full dimension and complexity (of course, she will must do concessions.) It is necessary in any case so that her relations with Angel improve. As for Gunn, it is no coincidence that Angel comes to ask him to watch over Wes and Cordy in the hospital. He asks him to protect the people he holds most and proves that he believes Gunn, he has confidence. I think, indirectly, that announces that next season Gunn will be part of the team. He will go from an excluded to an included !

Two words about Lyndsey who experienced a case of conscience the previous episode but apparently he quickly regained his spirits, no doubt that power, and a big salary pushed him to convince himself that being on the side of evil should be his new conviction. He made a choice, he will assume the consequences. He loses his hand and frankly he can not say that he did not play with fire.




Wolfram and Hart played well this time. Vocah was a pretty powerful demon, but what they brought back in this box will do much more damage. Darla is back, still an obvious proof that soon everything will change. Excellent cliffangher that makes me want to continue the series.

 

Mr Trick

Scooby
Joined
Jan 9, 2015
Messages
14,809
Age
40
Location
London, UK
Not a David fan. But the problem is he is there so briefly and always felt like a cameo that never had any importance in to the plot. At least if they'd committed to him and gave him a proper plot it would have gave the character a better chance to succeed.
 

Fool for Buffy

I'm just being a big nerd again
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
2,358
Age
20
Sineya
Not a David fan. But the problem is he is there so briefly and always felt like a cameo that never had any importance in to the plot. At least if they'd committed to him and gave him a proper plot it would have gave the character a better chance to succeed.
The way they introduce him, it feels like he is going to be a recurring character. Then he only comes back once or maybe twice and he never got a chance to grow on me.
 

AnthonyCordova

Earth Invasion Taskforce Unlimited
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
Messages
2,140
Location
Denver, Colorado
Sineya
@Mr Trick and @Fool for Buffy , could you see his character really going anywhere though? Would we want to? He was a dead end character idea from the start if they had any plans for him. But as he is, he's worth a smile or two before moving on with things. They spent the right amount of time on him I think.
 

Bluebird

two by two, hands of blue
Joined
May 17, 2008
Messages
6,416
Black Thorn
As far as I know, the producers wanted David Nabbit to be a semi recurring character but couldn't do it because of scheduling conflicts. David Herman, the actor who plays him, works a lot, so I guess he was already contracted elsewhere. This was around the time he was doing Futurama too.
 

AnthonyCordova

Earth Invasion Taskforce Unlimited
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
Messages
2,140
Location
Denver, Colorado
Sineya
As far as I know, the producers wanted David Nabbit to be a semi recurring character but couldn't do it because of scheduling conflicts. David Herman, the actor who plays him, works a lot, so I guess he was already contracted elsewhere. This was around the time he was doing Futurama too.
Oh cool, i didn't know he did futurama!
 
Top Bottom