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Discussion of 3.04 "Carpe Noctem" - Aired 10/15/2001 (WB-US)

Flannen

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An old man casts a body-switching spell on Angel, and enjoys the many pleasures of being eternally young, handsome, and bloodthirsty in Los Angeles while a dying Angel tries to get his body back.
Source: TV.com

Discuss this episode here!
 

PassionBecoming

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Sineya
-Heehee, sneaky Fred. She has such a crush om Angel.
-There's a first on the shows: threesome! And then...ew!
-Aw, poor Fred got left behind. :(
-Love Cordy's reference to the swim team demons!
-That Roscoe guy is a creeper in a big way
-Old guy in Angel's body is kinda funny...
-Really? No one notices how weird Angel is acting?
-HAHA! LOVE that Lilah showed up. Interesting that she did Angel a favor, though, even if to one-up Gavin.
-Whoa!!! Fred walking in, then Angel changing...wow...
-Cordy with the blonde references again. :)
-Go Fred - gotta love a sucker punch!
-"The man who can have everything but love." True and sad...
-OH, the end was so perfect! He sure moved quick when he found out Buffy was alive! :)
 

Jules

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I really dont like these leather pants that Angel keeps wearing, there not anything like the ones he wore on BtVS in season 2!

I love the concept of this episode and the fact that no one took any notice of how different Angel was acting, and then when they all ignored Fred when they were given jobs to do. There not a very observant bunch :)

I love the end scene when Cordy comes running out to say that Buffy is still alive and then Angel gets up and runs in. I dont get the series of events that lead up to this because if my memory is correct over on BtVS, Buffy gets a call from Angel saying that they need to meet up but in this episode he gets a call from Willow. So did Willow phone to tell him that Buffy was alive and the Angel had to phone Buffy to meet up, even though Willow is living with Buffy at this stage?
 

Taake

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I love this episode, from Cordy hitting on guys at the gym to Angel/Marcus thinking that 'Fred' is a dude, to on the desk action with Lilah and of course the end... it's a great ending to a great episode that's very funny.

Although I agree with Jules, Angel in leather pants is just not that same as it was in Btvs.

I'm gonna guess that Willow or someone called Angel to let him know that Buffy was alive...
 
AnthonyCordova
AnthonyCordova
it was Willow

AnthonyCordova

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Sineya
The make-out scene between old-guy-as-Angel and Lilah was kind of...hot!

Fred makes me feel so bad for her. She's so emotionally vulnerable. I think "how cute" and "how sad" at the same time.

The idea of a creepy old man using magic to switch bodies with young men just for pleasure (and knowing that they die eventually as a result) is really disturbing. I don't know, just the idea that someone can do that is far more disturbing than any standard ugly monster could be. Even a really ugly and creepy monster. I was very happy to see him get his comeupins in the end.

And I hope this is the last body-switching episode we see on Angel or Buffy. It's been done to death, both on other television shows and on Buffy/Angel now. It gets old.
 

thetopher

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Yeah, this isn't really in the same league as 'Who Are You?', it's more of a funny 'watch DB be wacky for an episode'.

There's some fun stuff like the conversation between Angel/Marcus and Wesley, and the stuff with Lilah- I always knew she lusted after Angel, ever since 'The Ring'...

But remember, according to some people Angel was raped by an old man in this episode, so it's actually really dark, and not funny at all. :rolleyes:
 
AnthonyCordova
AnthonyCordova
[No message]

Charmander

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I've seen this story done on a few different shows before. Never really gives a good impression to old people.
I've never thought David was the strongest actor on either show, but he does play the evil/jerk characters very well.
Angel and Lilah.. kind of a hot combo! I find it funny that Fred called her a "cheap brunette" though, lol!
It was quite funny seeing the real Angel look for ways to get out of the retirement home and failing horribly.
 

Give Us A Kiss

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Sineya
Fred, they are doing it for fashion and it's just awful :(

Angel, it's OK to be an introvert, you have your own fun :)

Fred rambling reminds me a bit of Willow in season 1 of Buffy...

I guess that demon really likes expensive hotel suites...

...and likes Yoga class dudes...

That guy looks like the lizard guy from season 5 of Buffy, I'm creeped out...

I knew something was up with that guy...

Can't Cordy tell that something is off about Angel ??? o_O

Fake Angel, please stop...

Poor Angel :(

Fake Angel, stop hugging Wes :mad:

Angel eating, that's a sign something is wrong...

Fake Angel, stop shredding things:mad:

I'm sick of fake Angel...

Fred, don't look...

Poor Fred :(

Fake Angel, you are a nusance...

Of course Cordy loves technology, she had a cellphone before anyone else in Sunnydale :p

I guess Marcus is dead now...

Angel, tell Fred you two can still be friends :)

Buffy's alive :eek:

Next time: Fred's parents come to visit.
 

Mr Trick

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This is a decent episode but I do think the women are short changed in it. I know Cordy flirting with the hot guys at the gym is only for a joke but it still feels like old Cordelia and undermines the growth she has made. Same with Fred having a crush on Angel and Liliah sleeping with him (or at least who she thinks is Angel). Its quite funny in places and has some decent character moments, but noting special.
 

telperion66

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Hilarious on first watch, and still good to see David Boreanaz enjoying himself portraying the character, which lets face it is usually pretty rigid in its presentation. Another great season overall.
 

telperion66

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Felt like posting on this one again, such a good episode for the season. Light-hearted, but extremely poignant at the end when Angel and Fred finally have their "conversation" that Angel's been meaning to have for a while. "Cordelia said you'd probably just screw it up".. "Oh, she did, did she..? She's probably right..."

Great, fun scene where Angel reveals the Charlton Heston two-for-one at the movie theatre.

That really strong guy with the two girls in bed always makes me laugh.. "its good to be young..." (truer words..)

Another strong scene at the hotel after Fred and Angel get back from their "date".. fun stuff all round

Really funny seeing DB in his role as Angel after the initial body-switch..

Love to see Angel eating burritos, lol

Overall, this is an extremely well written and constructed/arranged episode.

Nice twist with Angel getting it on with Lilah, didn't see that one coming.

'Angel' at the club is just awesome..

8/10 for me
 

katmobile

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Yeah, this isn't really in the same league as 'Who Are You?', it's more of a funny 'watch DB be wacky for an episode'.

There's some fun stuff like the conversation between Angel/Marcus and Wesley, and the stuff with Lilah- I always knew she lusted after Angel, ever since 'The Ring'...

But remember, according to some people Angel was raped by an old man in this episode, so it's actually really dark, and not funny at all. :rolleyes:
Actually you raise a point it is really dark - attempted AR of not just Angel but Liliah too by deception. I doubt Angel would be too happy that his body had been used to almost shag Liliah. I know it's not what you meant but yeah also Marcus is guilt of the rape and murder of a string of young men and a lot of women by deception too. Good thing he gets his comeuppance at the end.
 
thetopher
thetopher
Way to miss the sarcasm. :/

katmobile

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Felt like posting on this one again, such a good episode for the season. Light-hearted, but extremely poignant at the end when Angel and Fred finally have their "conversation" that Angel's been meaning to have for a while. "Cordelia said you'd probably just screw it up".. "Oh, she did, did she..? She's probably right..."

Great, fun scene where Angel reveals the Charlton Heston two-for-one at the movie theatre.

That really strong guy with the two girls in bed always makes me laugh.. "its good to be young..." (truer words..)

Another strong scene at the hotel after Fred and Angel get back from their "date".. fun stuff all round

Really funny seeing DB in his role as Angel after the initial body-switch..

Love to see Angel eating burritos, lol

Overall, this is an extremely well written and constructed/arranged episode.

Nice twist with Angel getting it on with Lilah, didn't see that one coming.

'Angel' at the club is just awesome..

8/10 for me
I've always really liked this episode and it's nice to have you along with the ladies at Still Dead validate that.
 

katmobile

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thetopher
I didn't miss it I chose to deliberately ignore it big difference. Also you missed the part where I said I knew it wasn't your intention. Funny how you get food for thought from the strangest places.
 

thetopher

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Also you missed the part where I said I knew it wasn't your intention.
Where did you mention that in your post?

Funny how you get food for thought from the strangest places.
Apart from the comparison isn't really applicable at all. If a body swap is rape then Angel was raped by Marcus, its not really attempted rape at all.

Still, given how the show deals with actual violent sexual assaults or mind-controlled violations of consent then we shouldn't be surprised if these subjects aren't interpreted correctly. Hell, a couple of ships are even based on it.
 

katmobile

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I doubt Angel would be too happy that his body had been used to almost shag Liliah.

I know it's not what you meant
Tother - It's not the body swap itself that's rape although that's bad but the sex the person has with the other person's body without their consent if they disfigured the possessed body it would be some sort of assault. Hence why Marcus is guilty of AR of Angel and Liliah and murder of others.

I've helpfully isolated my own quote that shows that I said that I knew what I commented on was not your meaning because I'm not arguing with about that if you don't see it, you just don't.
 
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