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Discussion of 3.13 "The Zeppo" - Aired 26/1/1999 (WB-US)

AshSlays

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This is actually one of the ones that stuck with me the most. I've only binged the entire show once (believe me, I intend to again very soon) and if you mention this episode name at all, my brain goes through the entirety of the events in the episode.

Probably something memorable happened the day I watched it and I just remember the episode over the event to be honest.
 

thrasherpix

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I just got curious...more than once, including by I think at least one member here (thanks for honesty!), that Hyena Xander was hot even as he was indeed dangerous and at his worst.

People say guys should be confident, which some confuse with being a jerk. My own thoughts on that are beside the point, though I will say I think it's a lot more complicated than that (and that I see a lot who act like jerks as lacking confidence even if they tend to have a lot of girlfriends--while plenty of other women reject them for their attitude which aren't seen, and I've also noticed that those who look good get much more of a pass, but that shouldn't be surprising). But if it's confidence, then how does Xander come off at the end of Zeppo?


If say Hyena Xander is hot, but Xander here is not, could you say why? (Feel free to do it privately.) I'm trying to figure out human nature (and already have some theories).



As an aside, I liked where he tells them "Give me the quiet life." What a nice callback to the night before! :) I don't think I caught that before.
 

sosa lola

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I'm not the person you should ask since I always find him hot. :p I guess outfits play a part in hotness, the hairdo, the smolder... etc.
 
T
thrasherpix
I actually forgot to think of the smolder! Of course (Hyena) Xander WANTING you with such intensity would be much more attractive with his confidence than just Xander being more of an aloof confident here. Thanks!

vampmogs

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In terms of hotness, I think Xander was at his best in in Season 3-Mid Season 4. His body is at it's best in Season 3 (particularly evident by those skintight muscle tops her wore circa "Faith, Hope & Trick") but whilst he starts to gain a little weight in Season 4 he's still in great shape around "The I In Team" (his arms look great in the poker scene with Willow and Anya). I also think his hair looks best in those seasons and I've gradually even started to warm up to the overly-gelled slicked back look he had at the beginning of Season 3 (which I used to hate).

His body is great in Season 2 but his haircut does him no favours. It's too short around his ears and makes them look huge and his fringe made him appear like he had a receding hairline. The one exception is "When She Was Bad" which looks great and more like his Season 3-4 hair style. That's a great episode for him in general - I always drool over that one shot of both DB and NB at the vampire factory. The lighting does them a lot of favours 🤤

His worst season is, IMO, Season 5. Especially when he has that really long hair style. By the end of Season 7 he's gained a lot of weight but I actually think he looks pretty cute in the flannelette shirt and eye patch. He also looks quite good in the very early episodes of Season 6.
 

DeadlyDuo

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I think attractiveness isn't just based on how good someone looks (people have different ideas about what makes someone good looking) but also how they act. A guy can be good looking yet also an absolute prick which lowers his attractiveness level. Once Upon a Time's Hook is an example of this.

Now in movies and tv, "bad boys" and "rule breakers" do have an attractiveness which is based a little on wish fulfilment fantasies, but just because someone likes a "bad boy" in show, doesn't mean they want that kind of person in real life.

Hyena Xander and Vampire Xander have a sharper sense of style than normal Xander, and how someone dresses can affect how someone perceives them. You'll notice that "evil" characters tend to wear darker colours than the "good" characters, hence the terms "white hats" and "black hats".

What I think can be off putting about Xander personality wise isn't just the moments where he unjustifiably berates people, it's the fact that sometimes he thinks he's funnier than he actually is. A good sense of humour is an attractive trait (and this is one of the traits Spike has and even Angelus to an extent) but Xander's humour can be a bit hit and miss. Xander gets accused of saying sexist comments but I think it's more the case they're unfunny rather than sexist eg his "what would Buffy do" speech contains "what is Buffy wearing". It's clearly intended to be humour but Xander's treatment of Buffy can alternate between being a good friend eg "What would Buffy do speech", and being quite nasty to her eg Dead Man's Party. The fact that he fancied her but she rejected him then also leaves him open to "nice guy" accusations because his bad actions towards Buffy are then viewed through a "he's being a dick to her because she rejected him" lens.
 

Btvs fan

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Well done the rewatch and I love this episode even to this day.
Swapping the A plot with the B plot. The humour is both clever and crisp with some great lines "Walker "Texas Ranger ? "Been taping every ep" "I'm oddly full today" 😄
To Xanders interruption of the B/A angst routine. An acknowledgement and piss tske of them knowing how boring and repetitive those scenes were.
One of the greatest episodes of all time and in my top 10 10/10 for me
 

FaithLehane16

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Does anybody have the feeling that Cordy was trying to get back to Xander (in her own way) in this episode?

The chemistries between them in their several confrontations, are all just one apologize away from being together again.

Maybe it's accidental from the actors' delivery. Or maybe it's somewhat intentional?
I think it is them having unresolved feelings for each other, plus hurt on Cordy's side.

While, I do understand Helpless causing Buffy to think Xander is the most fragile out of them both, it does come across as out of character a bit because she and the others were willing to let him fight beside them in the previous 2 seasons.

I don't know why Oz didn't remember that he ate a zombie person the night before. Does it have something to do with the wolf and the human giving him separate memory. @DeadlyDuo what do you think?

I think Angel is being careful to Xander is because he is one of Buffy's best friends. Angel did try to get a vamp off of Xander in School Hard.
 

DeadlyDuo

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I don't know why Oz didn't remember that he ate a zombie person the night before. Does it have something to do with the wolf and the human giving him separate memory. @DeadlyDuo what do you think?
As far as I know, Oz doesn't remember what he does when he's in wolf form so he locks himself up to keep other people safe from himself.

Angel did try to get a vamp off of Xander in School Hard.
He also did offer to feed him to Spike.
 

FaithLehane16

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He also did offer to feed him to Spike.
He did it to test if Spike is going to buy him being evil.
As far as I know, Oz doesn't remember what he does when he's in wolf form so he locks himself up to keep other people safe from himself.
He does remember what he does in Phases and in Season 4.
 

DeadlyDuo

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He did it to test if Spike is going to buy him being evil.
And the plan from there was...….?

Was Angel trying to infiltrate Spike's gang by pretending to be evil? He would've had to let Xander die for that to even be a possibility. If he didn't let Xander die (which I don't think he would've) then he would've blown his cover almost immediately.

Angel's "plan" seemed to be:

Step 1: Pretend to be evil and act like you're going to kill Xander.

Step 2: See if Spike buys it. Either he will or he won't.

Step 3: Wait for outcome of Step 2.

He does remember what he does in Phases and in Season 4.
Maybe he doesn't remember everything that happens but just bits and pieces?
 

Antho

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Doesn’t Willow kiss Xander on the lips on this episode ? Not sure. But I have reason I think it’s really inappropriate considerate what happened like 6 episode ago
 

FaithLehane16

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Oh yeah I just rewatch the clips, she hugs him and say « I love You ». Well, honestly I still think it’s too soon after all that affair for that kind of things between them
Same here. I hated that affair and deemed it unnecessary and lazy.
 

Antho

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So, I choose to rewatch « The Zeppo ». I don’t know why I did this to me, I’m masochist sometimes 😂. What I said about « Chosen » brought some angry reactions and discussions/debates because I said things that are very controversial and I feel it will also be the case here. Though this isn’t grave, I assume my opinions. So let’s go :

« The Zeppo » is the worst episode of the entire series. Okay maybe I exaggerate a little 😂but it’s so bad for me that I would rank it in my 10 of worst episode. Not only it is bad for me but it’s also super boring ! I really think I’m allergic to Xander’s humor. And the Zombies are so ridiculous that’s not even funny, it’s more pathetic than other thing for me. Do you seriously find this episode funny ? I judge no one of course, all the tastes are in the nature, but if everyone laugh in front of that episode, I’m starting to think that maybe I don’t have a sense of humor 😅😂.

Also I don’t understand what is the point of that episode ? Showing that Xander despite not having power is essential to the group and special in his way ? That’s it ? That’s really the point of that episode ? Well, I’m not a huge fan of Xander, not a hater also, more a person objective and neutral toward him, and I didn’t wait that episode to understand that Xander isn’t useless and can offer his help and being useful. Look at « prophecy girl » ( he saved Buffy), Acathla ( he saved Giles) what’s my line ( he saved Cordelia) and I don’t know maybe every episode where he risks his life for his friends by fighting along with them even without superpowers. That’s something he did every episode, so yeah I didn’t wait the Zeppo to realize that Xander can save people too.

What I also find not understandable is the reactions of Buffy, Willow, Giles... towards Xander. They are like sur protecting him ! Putting him aside like he needed to be protected more than anyone else. They treated him in a way they never did before. It was obviously just for the plot but it makes all the character OOC. It wasn’t realistic how they act with him.
And finally in This episode to show that Xander has growths and become more of an adult they make him slept with Faith.. he lose his virginity wow 😳 it sure means he is an adult now ^^.

It’s done, now I can do not rewatch the Zeppo for like 20 years 😎. I feel better knowing that 😂. Sorry guys , do you still like me ?
 
Last edited:

r2dh2

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So, I choose to rewatch « The Zeppo ». I don’t know why I did this to me, I’m masochist sometimes 😂. What I said about « Chosen » brought some angry reactions and discussions/debates because I said things that are very controversial and I feel it will also be the case here. Though this isn’t grave, I assume my opinions. So let’s go :

« The Zeppo » is the worst episode of the entire series. Okay maybe I exaggerate a little 😂but it’s so bad for me that I would rank it in my 10 of worst episode. Not only it is bad for me but it’s also super boring ! I really think I’m allergic to Xander’s humor. And the Zombies are so ridiculous that’s not even funny, it’s more pathetic than other thing for me. Do you seriously find this episode funny ? I judge no one of course, all the tastes are in the nature, but if everyone laugh in front of that episode, I’m starting to thing that maybe I don’t have a sense of humor 😅😂.

Also I don’t understand what is the point of that episode ? Showing that Xander despite not having power is essential to the group and special in his way ? That’s it ? That’s really the point of that episode ? Well, I’m not a huge fan of Xander, not a hater also, more a person objective and neutral toward him, and I didn’t wait that episode to understand that Xander isn’t useless and can offer his help and being useful. Look at « prophecy girl » ( he saved Buffy), Acathla ( he saved Giles) what’s my line ( he saved Cordelia) and I don’t know maybe every episode where he risks his life for his friends by fighting along with them even without superpowers. That’s something he did every episode, so yeah I didn’t wait the Zeppo to realize that Xander can save people too.

What I also find not understandable is the reactions of Buffy, Willow, Giles... towards Xander. They are like sur protecting him ! Putting him aside like he needed to be protected more than anyone else. They treated him in a way they never did before. It was obviously just for the plot but it makes all the character OOC. It wasn’t realistic how they act with him.
And finally in This episode to show that Xander has growths and become more of an adult they make him slept with Faith.. he lose his virginity wow 😳 it sure means he is an adult now ^^.

It’s done, now I can do not rewatch the Zeppo for like 20 years 😎. I feel better knowing that 😂. Sorry guys , do you still like me ?
I love the candor of your review. I’m not a fan of The Zeppo but I don’t dislike it either. I think that my answer of your questions regarding the point of the episode and their protective nature towards Xander are that we’re looking at things through the eyes of Xander. That’s why everything is so exaggerated: the melodrama of Bangel, their extra protective and condescending attitude towards him, him sleeping with Faith in the blink of an eye without beign able to process it, etc.

I’m with you regarding my feelings towards Xander, but I think that the point of the episode is that Xander feels useless, a loser and an outcast within the Scoobies, but at the end of the episode, he is the one who realizes that he’s not only not useless but he doesn’t have to prove himself to anyone. That’s why he doesn’t tell them about the Zombies or about Faith.

I also think that the plot of the Zombies is ridiculous but it sets the mood for the type of episode that we’re presented with. To me, it’s the way we’re supposed to feel about it. But I’m with you regarding this episode. I think S3 has many great episodes, but neither The Zeppo nor Band Candy make it into my list of favorites.

And yes, I still like you :D.
 

Antho

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I love the candor of your review. I’m not a fan of The Zeppo but I don’t dislike it either. I think that my answer of your questions regarding the point of the episode and their protective nature towards Xander are that we’re looking at things through the eyes of Xander. That’s why everything is so exaggerated: the melodrama of Bangel, their extra protective and condescending attitude towards him, him sleeping with Faith in the blink of an eye without beign able to process it, etc.

I’m with you regarding my feelings towards Xander, but I think that the point of the episode is that Xander feels useless, a loser and an outcast within the Scoobies, but at the end of the episode, he is the one who realizes that he’s not only not useless but he doesn’t have to prove himself to anyone. That’s why he doesn’t tell them about the Zombies or about Faith.

I also think that the plot of the Zombies is ridiculous but it sets the mood for the type of episode that we’re presented with. To me, it’s the way we’re supposed to feel about it. But I’m with you regarding this episode. I think S3 has many great episodes, but neither The Zeppo nor Band Candy make it into my list of favorites.

And yes, I still like you :D.
You made some valid good points. I think you are 100% right when you say that we are supposed to see all is happening by Xander’s eyes.. which explains why a lot of things are so exaggerated. I guess it’s an exploration of Xander’s feeling about his place in this group and how he sees things around him. It explains the purpose of this episode a little better but sadly I don’t emotionally connect with all of that.. the cheesy thing.. Xander’s view on him and the others.. it’s all too much and not very believable.
 

thrasherpix

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What I also find not understandable is the reactions of Buffy, Willow, Giles... towards Xander. They are like sur protecting him ! Putting him aside like he needed to be protected more than anyone else. They treated him in a way they never did before. It was obviously just for the plot but it makes all the character OOC. It wasn’t realistic how they act with him.
And finally in This episode to show that Xander has growths and become more of an adult they make him slept with Faith.. he lose his virginity wow 😳 it sure means he is an adult now ^^.

It’s done, now I can do not rewatch the Zeppo for like 20 years 😎. I feel better knowing that 😂. Sorry guys , do you still like me ?
Of course. But you better like Thai food or you're the worst. :p (TV, cuisine...who cares. I have a hard time when someone asks what they should watch when I don't anything about them and very little of what they've watched before, because how should I know? They're not me, and will like and react to things differently.)

I like this one okay. The ending was good and I love Oz saying he feels strangely full. And most of all it's how Xander sees it, which matches from the first episodes where he feels like he's being called "less than a man" that Buffy doesn't make him a full partner (so sees them as coddling him in this ep), and...my favorite...how he sees Bangel, which I loved because for a brief moment he was my stand-in for the show as he just acted awkward walking in on the melodrama between Buffy and Angel (must be Tuesday).
 
Antho
Antho
It’s all good because I like Thai food :)
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