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Discussion of 3.16 "Sleep Tight" - Aired 3/4/2002 (WB-US)

Flannen

Flannix
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When Angel's mood becomes suddenly darker and he begins to crave human blood, Wesley resolves to do whatever is necessary to protect Connor -- even if it means betraying those he loves.
Source: TV.com

Discuss the episode here!
 

PassionBecoming

Minuscule Redheaded One
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Sineya
-Um, is Angel drunk? He's acting so weird. I just want to hug Wesley.
-No insurance. Tsk tsk.
-Fred and Gunn are getting a little too mushy for me now. And Wes is so very bitter....
-Kim's little problem = FREAKY!
-Holtz's little army could really benefit from some therapy.
-Wow. Warehouse scene..looks like Angel ate his Wheaties this morning.
-I can't figure out what Holtz's game is. Why does he want Wes to take Connor? I don't believe that it's just because he doesn't want him killed.
-Lorne watching Connor is so awesome! Angel freaking at Conoor...meh. :( "The last couple of days he's smelled like...food." UGH.
-Lilah is so going to Hell.
-Angel, Lilah, and the Sashon's bar metting was pretty amusing. Heehee.
-Oh, Wesley, you can't hum in front of Lorne! Ugh, not easy to watch.
-I KNEW IT!! Holtz just wanted Connor gone for when they attack. He is such a bad word!
-Wes, don't fall for it!!! Get out of there!!!
-I kind of wish I could beat Justine unconscious.
-Angel swiping the army vehicle. Nice.
-Holtz wants to kidnap Connor? This is all just very sick.

Ok, that final scene had me on an edge that I have never been when watching either BtVS or AtS. I don't know if it's because I have kids now or what, but I have never felt so much for a character as I do for Angel right now. I just sat there with my hand over my mouth when Holtz jumped. I can't believe that just happened. Angel just seems to get punished/hurt over and over and over. I have just an icky feeling after watching it, and I wish I could jump into the TV and help them get Connor back.
 
Octavia
Octavia
Aww hugs

Jules

Bite Me
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Black Thorn
So Holtz offering Wesley the apple when they met in the warehouse was very similar to Eve and the Snake in the Garden of Eden. Have I missed how Holtz all of a sudden knows that Angel is going to kill Connor and Wesley just believes him. Holtz is basing his opinion on Angel still being evil, Wesley should know better than to buy into what he is saying. It just shows how down hill Wes has gone.

So Angel's blood has been spiked with Connors blood. No wonder Angel was drinking so much and acting so weird. Its such a set up and if Wesley had just let Lorne explain what they had found out, maybe none of this would have happened. It was so chilling watching Wesley's reaction once he realised he'd let his plan slip to Lorne.

The thing that is annoying me a little bit, is how Holtz's gang can fight vampires so well. There humans with no super strength yet they fight vampires and Justine controls the vamps almost as if she has super strength.

Holtz is a very twisted individual, he has to be a special kind of evil to come up with that kind of revenge. Poor Angel, his face when he's telling Holtz to take Connor to protect him is so heartbreaking.
 

Octavia

My arse is not pansy!
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Sineya
:'(

This is hitting me harder this time round! Devastating for Angel. I cant help being a little angry at Wes in that he should know better!! Especially when Justine approached - c'mon Wes, his instincts said not to trust.

I prefered Angel a little more upbeat - but it is sad when he gets so angry at Connor and we realise why he is feeling better. Kinda like alcohol I guess.

Sa jan is annoying but I do like the Lilah/Angel/Sa jan interaction in the bar. It loses the humour later...


So Holtz offering Wesley the apple when they met in the warehouse was very similar to Eve and the Snake in the Garden of Eden. Have I missed how Holtz all of a sudden knows that Angel is going to kill Connor and Wesley just believes him. Holtz is basing his opinion on Angel still being evil, Wesley should know better than to buy into what he is saying. It just shows how down hill Wes has gone.

So Angel's blood has been spiked with Connors blood. No wonder Angel was drinking so much and acting so weird. Its such a set up and if Wesley had just let Lorne explain what they had found out, maybe none of this would have happened. It was so chilling watching Wesley's reaction once he realised he'd let his plan slip to Lorne.

The thing that is annoying me a little bit, is how Holtz's gang can fight vampires so well. There humans with no super strength yet they fight vampires and Justine controls the vamps almost as if she has super strength.

Holtz is a very twisted individual, he has to be a special kind of evil to come up with that kind of revenge. Poor Angel, his face when he's telling Holtz to take Connor to protect him is so heartbreaking.
I feel Holtz's army showed their extreme training methods so I was not surprised at strength and courage. Holtz is indeed twisted!
 

SlayerFest

Wiley Dairy Gnome
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Black Thorn
:'(

This is hitting me harder this time round! Devastating for Angel. I cant help being a little angry at Wes in that he should know better!! Especially when Justine approached - c'mon Wes, his instincts said not to trust.
Seriously...I watched this again recently with my fiance and while he isn't a huge fan of Angel...he was so into it and the scene when Angel tries to smother Wesley is definitely a...classic one in our minds, ha. Even though I knew what would happen, I found myself hoping that there would be a different outcome. Devastating and heart wrenching but...highly entertaining.
 

GraceK

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This whole episode gives me anxiety and makes me physically ill..I think it's because I'm a new mom. I wish Wesley would just have spoke to his friends. This whole thing is sickening. Poor Angel ..and especially poor aconnor. He's the innocent one here..his life destroyed through no fault of his own :(
 

Carrie Hopewell

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Sineya
This whole episode gives me anxiety and makes me physically ill..I think it's because I'm a new mom. I wish Wesley would just have spoke to his friends. This whole thing is sickening. Poor Angel ..and especially poor aconnor. He's the innocent one here..his life destroyed through no fault of his own :(
Yeah...I really hate season 3. I think the buildup to Connor's kidnapping was kind of terrible. The more I watch the Loyalty/Sleep Tight/Forgiving trilogy, the less sense Wesley's actions make. I don't really understand his meetings with Holtz and Justine, and everything just seems out of character for Wesley. It's like we're supposed to accept that Wesley is a rookie who believes in everything he's foretold and that the Fred situation isolated Wes to the point where he was friendless?

I love Wesley and his arc after the Connor kidnapping, but I kind of ignore how he got there. Better not to try to make sense of plot holes.

What really gets to me about Sleep Tight is how all of my babies end up in pain. Wes has his throat slit, Angel loses his son, Connor is taken to a hell dimension :(
 

Give Us A Kiss

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Sineya
Has Angelus returned ??? :eek:

Hell has Nixon and Britney Spears ??? Could be worse.

Fred has a point, most people are not extremely racist.

She's a demon with green puke :eek:

Angel, the nuns probably had wings from The Pope...

Musicians get chicks=demons in musician disguise get chicks :p

Holtz, get used to the cups :p

Holtz is getting grayer by the episode...

The band kind of sucks, but that's OK.

Wes...

Lorne is a great babysitter :)

Angel :mad:

So the prophecy is coming true :eek:

So what if Holtz didn't grow very tall ??? Doesn't make him any less of a threat.

Lilah is the one turning Angel into a baby killer, she should be ashamed of herself...

Angel, I don't like people in cahoots either...

Wes, don't you effing dare take Connor :mad:

Angel is too trusting, it concerns me...

Lorne speaks the truth :D

How the hell did Wes survive that throat slit ??? o_O

Connor can't even hold his head up yet and he's already forward facing, very bad idea...

Don't kill the baby :mad:

I feel bad for Angel :(

Next time: Searching for Wes.
 

Out for a walk

5 Words Or Less...
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That was a great scene where Wes hums in front of Lorne. The look that he gave when he realized that he made a big mistake. Very good acting and writing there. Seemed like a scene out of a thriller movie, where the bad guy slips up.

Poor Wes at the end...this whole episode was intense.
 

Mr Trick

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Yeah...I really hate season 3. I think the buildup to Connor's kidnapping was kind of terrible. The more I watch the Loyalty/Sleep Tight/Forgiving trilogy, the less sense Wesley's actions make. I don't really understand his meetings with Holtz and Justine, and everything just seems out of character for Wesley. It's like we're supposed to accept that Wesley is a rookie who believes in everything he's foretold and that the Fred situation isolated Wes to the point where he was friendless?

I love Wesley and his arc after the Connor kidnapping, but I kind of ignore how he got there. Better not to try to make sense of plot holes.


What really gets to me about Sleep Tight is how all of my babies end up in pain. Wes has his throat slit, Angel loses his son, Connor is taken to a hell dimension :(
Can see where you are coming from, but everyone makes mistakes and a lot of people in Wesley's shoes would have done the same. He had to make a judgement call, and it wasn't a clear cut decision. There were pros and cons either way. I don't think any amount of experience can prepare you for that. Which is your favourite season by the way?
 

Mr Trick

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Good tense episode. W&H Swat team was a bit OTT but still. BTW I think its this one when Fred steps in-between Angel and Gunn when their fighting. Its a good scene for her character. I think her more ritual anti-violent approach and her guts to step in is a strong move.
 

Priceless

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The scene where Wesley takes Connor is one of my favourite, heart in mouth, scenes in the whole show. Wesley singing to Connor and realising what he's done, that Lorne now knows everything, is edge of your seat stuff. How does Lorne forgive Wes for beating him so badly?
 
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