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Discussion of 4.02 "Ground State" - Aired 10/13/2002 (WB-US)


Mar 7, 2009
Angel visits Dinza, a Goddess of the lost, who advises him that an item called the Axis of Pythia can help him find Cordelia. With Fred and Gunn, he breaks into a auction house to find the Axis, but a beautiful burglar with electrical powers seems to have had the same idea.
Source: TV.com

Discuss this episode here!


Bite Me
Jun 18, 2003
Black Thorn
I enjoyed watching the flash back of Gwen entering the school, even if I was originally unsure of who she was. I felt so sorry for her, first wanting to hold the teachers hand and having it slaped away and then being sat on her own while the other children played. I was really surprised at what happened next, watching that spark of electric go into that little boy.

It was so sad watching Fred, Angel and Gunn empty Cordy's apartment. Fred's emotions were just so raw, she was hurting over Connor's betrayal and at the loss of Cordy.

I couldnt believe Wes having his own gang for fighting evil. I really wanted Wesley to rejoin the Fang Gang. He's just amazing when it comes to research, he almost puts Giles to shame :) Its sad that Angel didnt ask him to come back, although realistically Wes probably isnt in the right place at the moment.

I love Angel asking were Atlantis and the Holy Grail were. That demon's comment was very cryptic.

Gwen reminded me a lot of Rogue from the X-Men, especially wearing those gloves. She was incredibly sassy and I so enjoyed her frying that guys watch.

Fred's flip chart was so sweet and how she was jealous of Angel's drawings. The scene with Gunn, Angel and Fred was a nice light scene showing how well they were interacting with each other. I liked how they cut it into the scene with Gwen starting to rob that place.

This might incur the rath of Spuffy fans, but the Lilah and Wes' relationship reminds me a little of how Spuffy started out. Its such a destructive relationship, no good can come of it :)

It was a nice change watching Gunn and Angel being less than stealthy, Gunn's comment about Batman reminded me of the referances made in season 1 of Angel, plus Angel just ripping out those wires and then both guys going the wrong way.

I enjoyed watching Gwen interact with Gunn and Angel. She is clearly a thief with no conscience, until she kills Gunn! I didnt see that happening! When Angel says he's dead I thought he'd made a mistake.

Lilah and Angel have great banter, I so love Angel when he's all threatening. It was nice in a twisted kind of way that Angel was watching over Connor, even though his son is sleeping rough on the streets of LA (not that he doesnt deserve it).

I kind of saw Fred's melt down coming. She is so very good at being vulnerable and also at holding the group together.

The fight scene between Gwen and Angel was great, right up until they put that kiss in there. What was that all about?! I realise that the last time Angel's heart beat was IWRY but still, kissing a random girl, not really Angel's style! I really wanted Gwen to fry that guy, but Angel's punching him in the face was just as good. I did like their Batman/Catwoman type comment: first she calls it a fib and he calls it a lie then he calls it a fib and she calls it a lie.

Cordy's end comment was so very typically Cordy :)


Minuscule Redheaded One
Feb 8, 2011
Northern Minnesota
Alright, need to get watching these again! (Especially since the icon contest has two categories with just AtS in it...yikes for me!!)

-Ooo, WI! Next door to me!
-Mr. and Mrs. Raiden? Would that be where our wonderful dormies got their name?
-Oh, my gosh, that scene of Gwen's parents leaving her is heartbreaking!! How awful. :(
-And it just gets worse. :( My mommy-heart can't take that! Poor girl.
-"Dust sperm whales"? Hahah. Oh, Fred. And Cordy has been gone that long?? Sad day.
-"You go find them." Aw, happy Fang Gang moment. :D And Wesley wasn't too hostile or anything. "Unholy fruit basket?" Love it. Heehee.
-Dinza looks like she could use a dusting. Love the Jimmy Hoffa reference.
-Ooo, we're back to leather pants. I half expected that to be Buffy! :p
-I quite like grown-up Gwen. Except for the whole stealing things for a living thing. "We professionals don't like taking the bone." Good line for a banner...
-Nice to see Angel using his drawing skills for something other than stalking ex-girlfriends. ;)
-Lilah and Wes just...blech. Kind of reminds me of the whole S6 Spuffy thing.
-Gwen's like the X-Men!
-Whoa, Gunn. My heart about stopped there.
-I love when Angel subtly threatens Lilah. They're exchanges are always lovely to listen to.
-So, is Gwen just super-strong because she shoots electric current or...?
-Erm, Angel's heart beats and then he gets horny or...?
-Looks like Angel found himself another Faith to help.
-Well, the Fang Gang could sell that Axis now that they're done with it and never worry about money again. :)
-I'm glad they found where Cordy was and can be at peace. Can't Cordy just zap herself out of there?

Give Us A Kiss

Fuffy Apologist
Feb 4, 2015
I felt really bad for child Gwen, no one deserves to be left out like that :(.
Pretty sure that the idea of Gwen was inspired by Catwoman and/or Black Widow.
Speaking of superheroes, Gwen references Smallvile, which had James Marsters in it.
Buffy Summers
Buffy Summers
Or Rogue ;)

Give Us A Kiss

Fuffy Apologist
Feb 4, 2015
The academy looks big, especially for a child...

I don't think that Gwen is too thrilled about this...

She can't even eat a pudding cup :(

Gwen :mad: (I know she can't help it, but she just electrocuted a kid).

Angel got a haircut :)

They are leaving The Hyperion :(

Fred did a good imitation of someone replying to you on the phone because they can't help you with what you need, stupid people...

The Rouge Demon Hunter thing isn't working too well for Wes...

Dinza ??? o_O

OK, so tell us where is Cordy...

Gwen Raiden, this is not discreet...

Gwen has electricity running all over her body, I bet that helps ;)

Cordy looks bored to death...

33 millions dollars is a lot :eek:

Angel has a point, Fred stepped up since Cordy left :)

Stealthy Gwen ;)

Ewww :eek:

So Lilah is loud in the bedroom then ??? o_O

Lilah :mad:

AI and Gwen want to go to the same place at the same time, interesting...

I would hate it if Gwen were to do that to the wires in my house...

Angel has cool spray :D

Fibbing and lying are the same thing...

Gwen has a point, electricity comforts us, me included...

Gunn is not dead yet... Gwen revived him.

Poor Connor :mad: (but what he did was just wrong).

Evil errands, that made me laugh :D

Fred is worn out :(

He is not toast because he is a vampire...

They kissed :eek:

He wants to kill Gwen for being a freak, that's not a reason to kill someone :mad:

Angel saved the day :D

Angel, you should have let Gwen do that...

What's the difference between being a higher being and being dead ??? o_O

Next time: They are going to Vegas :)


Bangel shipper
Jul 19, 2012
The Netherlands
Black Thorn
Enjoyable episode with the debut of Gwen Raiden.

Wesley has his own gang now and boy did he look badass slicing a huge demon in half in front of Angel. It broke my hart how he gave Angel all his research about Cordelia's disappearance while telling him that he's giving him what he truly came for. Meanwhile the fang gang continues to offer us some nice moments. Even without Cordelia and Wesley, I still enjoy the interactions between Gunn, Angel and Fred. Angel threatening Lilah never stops entertaining me. Interesting how he didn't seem to feel bad about Connor living on the streets (he deserves it though).
I absolutely love Gwen, the actress does an amazing job of being vulnerable, while still playing a badass character with super powers.

Things I disliked were the kiss between Angel and Gwen (random), and the final scene with Cordelia (kinda ruins the mood).


Feb 24, 2018
I really loved the demon Dinza, what a beautifully created demon, so creepy and fascinating. Most of the time, demons just look like some power rangers, just like people with a mask or certain kind of make-up, so I really loved it when they create demons that actually have a little bit more of detail to them. I loved when she surfaces behind Angel, telling him that she would like to keep him, but that he has yet so much more to lose.

Enjoyable episode with the debut of Gwen Raiden.

I absolutely love Gwen, the actress does an amazing job of being vulnerable, while still playing a badass character with super powers.
I think she also had great chemistry with the cast members. Her interactions with Angel, Fred and Gunn are fairly dynamic, in later episodes as well. Kind of a shame that she never made the cut to becoming a regular character or appearing more often. They introduce her in this one episode, yet she already has a different dynamic with each of the available Team Angel members. It took much longer for the other characters to have any kind of dynamic with anyone other than Angel.

Mr Trick

Jan 9, 2015
London, UK
Besides Gwen's strong debut I don't actually think this episode is up to much. There's a decent villain. But the whole Mission Impossible feel to the heist is a bit lame. I'm not so keen when Angel as a series goes full-blown action movie. I get its a way to represent a different kind of series to Buffy but I find it quite boring. Also I think its around this time when they start finding reasons for Gunn and Fred to fall out which feels forced.
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