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Discussion of 4.03 "The House Always Wins" - Aired 10/20/2002 (WB-US)

Flannen

Flannix
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Angel, Fred and Gunn take a road trip to Las Vegas to enlist Lorne's help in finding Cordelia, but when the get there Lorne doesn't even acknowledge their presence. It soon becomes clear that Lorne is being held against his will, and that his popular casino act is actually a way for his captor to read the futures of people in the crowd. Angel and the gang must find a way to help Lorne escape without sacrificing their own destinies in the process.
Source: TV.com

Discuss this episode here!
 

Jules

Bite Me
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Black Thorn
I love how they did the opening shot of Connor confronting the vampire with Angel watching over him and doing a voice over, then you have Cordy watching over them both and doing another voiceover, then you have Fred and Gunn watching Angel. It was a good teaser, especially with the comment about Angel's retreat after Buffy's death and then the shot of them driving into Vegas.

Listening to Angel reminise about his past visit to Vegas was interesting. Also seeing Lorne on a billboard was a shock. I really did enjoy Angel's comment that 2 members of the Blueman group were demons. Angel did not look impressed with Lorne's performance until the Lornettes showed up :) I cant believe that Lorne ignored Angel, Gunn and Fred when he was doing his performance and then again back stage.

I really thought that guy Lee was a sleeze as soon as he walked into Lorne's room and then that guard punched him!! Poor Lorne, he's in big trouble.

Wesley has turned into a heartless business man and a bit of a kinky streak.

Cordy's frustration with Angel was so funny. Watching him turn on the charm with the Lornette and then fight those guards and rescue the girl. He's a very busy vampire.

Seeing Fred as a Lornette was so funny and I couldnt believe Lorne didnt recognise her! Their exchange was so funny, hearing Lorne saying it took them long enough and Fred not realising he'd been asking for help all this time by using ''a universal code''.

Poor Angel falling under the casino's spell, I really cant wait for Lee to get what's coming to him! Watching Lorne, Gunn and Wes trying to escape while Angel just played on the slots and then they took the wrong shows how much Angel is needed in these situations. I didnt get why they would take potentially famous people's ''will'' at first but having there be a black market for people to buy a new future is such a genius concept. I was a little bit shocked at Gunns anger and how he accused Lorne of selling out Angel. I guess he's having some trust issues at the moment. I felt so sorry for Lorne having to watch those girls get killed when he wouldnt do what they wanted.

I liked how Cordy helped Angel. The whole concept of Higher Beings not being able to get invloved seems a regular theme. Daniel Jackson in SG1 also couldnt help out when he became a Higher Being. Watching Angel vamp out when Fred was threatened was sweet and I was glad that it was Lorne that freed those destinies.

It was another great episode ending with Cordy being stood in the hotel but not knowing who they were!

I've listened to the commentary by David Fury and Andy Hallett.

The opening shot is done to include Connor into this episode and show that he is Angel Jnr. The shot that follows of Cordy was meant to extend to show a shot of the city, then the whole country and then the world but it was too expensive. The teaser is to show that everyone is directionless and they dont know what there doing.

The scene of them driving down the Strip took hours to film. The writers had wanted to send Angel to Vegas since last season but they hadnt come up with a good enough storyline. The showgirls in this episode are the real showgirls from The Riviera. David Fury is sat in the front row and he's sat holding a bobblehead statue. The first man in the audience to sing is a broadway actor who actually has an amazing voice.

The backstage scene was shot in LA not Vegas. They were all in Vegas for 5 days and they had audiences watching them while they were filming. Andy's mum doesnt like watching his character get beat up or beheaded. The bars that locked Lorne in were originally meant to be lazers.

The scene with Wes was written by Joss. David's script came in a little short so they added this scene.

The scene in the casino was shot early in the morning and Andy tried to sneak onto the scene out of make up as an extra in the background but they caught him. It was shot in the Tropicana, so Andy went off to gamble after he got kicked off the set :) J is actually really good at gambling so he wasnt impressed by Gunns loosing steak. The fight scene with Angel is outside the Riviera but where he saves the girl is shot outside the Tropicana.

The Lornette Girls became a popular Halloween costume.

In the main dealing room, if you check behind Lee when he gets the information about Angel it says ''Deal with Disney to run new ABC series.'' It was a shout out to David Greenwalt who had gone to write a Disney series for the ABC.

The scene on Fremont Street has a number of people in the crowd that arent extra's, there people who came to watch the filming.

They enjoyed shooting in Vegas because unlike in LA, they werent charge by places like The Tropicana to shoot there.
 

Taake

Talk Darcy to me
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The Lornette Girls became a popular Halloween costume.
If it wasn't such an advanced costume I would love to go as a Lornette Girl for Halloween :)
 

PassionBecoming

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Sineya
-Love that Angel still watches over Connor. :)
-So what exactly is it that Cordy is doing? Is she serving some purpose or is she actually trapped?
-"I'm not skulking." Erm, Angel, you are the Master of Skulk.
-"Retreat"..."Vegas"...good fun.
-Why are they all riding in the front seat of Angel's car? Love Angel's reminiscing. Hahah.
-Gotta love Lorne's billboard! Quite the show! Lornettes!!!
-The Blue Man Group being demons. Heh heh.
-Ugh, I really wish Lorne was a fighting demon.
-Wes has gotten a little...pervy...
-Yeah, Vivian, you probably don't wanna go behind the curtain...
-Fred's counting cards. Hilarious!
-I always enjoy when Angel gets to surprise people who try to kick the crap out of him. :D
-Fred being a Lornette. Oh. My. Gosh.
-So, the game steals their...what? Future? Just brainwashes them?
-I wonder if W&H is going to smackdown on this DeMarco guy.
-Lorne's voice to the rescue!!!
-Angel's rich!!!! *happy party dance for destiny-less Angel*
-Ok, the Fang Gangfights demons contantly, they should be able to fight a few bodyguards.
-Woohoo, go Lorne with the cane!!!
-"Even without a flight plan, you're still a stealth bomber." <3 Lorne!
-Well, that was an ending.
 

AnthonyCordova

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[MENTION=11103]PassionBecoming[/MENTION] brings up a good point: what exactly is Cordy doing in the higher dimension? She's not actively working on things to make things better on that plane or on any other. She's not doing anything. It's like all she can do is watch, be impartial, etc. Maybe just her presence is enough to influence things...in other words all she has to do is just...be. I guess.

Dark Wesley is freaking interesting. I'm glad things went that direction. It adds more drama. In the end he could just be using Lilah. So maybe he isn't so dark but he's just partly playing up that angle in certain respects. Although his disappointment in his former friends for abandoning him has to be real. Or maybe...maybe not...hmmm. Anyway, contemplating Wesley's motives and thinking has become fun.
 

Charmander

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I just remembered that we haven't seen Kate in a while. The casinos just reminded me of the first episode where we met her.

I loved Lorne's routine! I could've had a whole episode on it.

The Cordy scenes are pretty goofy.
 

Give Us A Kiss

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Sineya
Connor :eek:

Angel, he can't hear you...

Connor broods too ??? Must be genetic then...

Can someone get Cordy out of there, please ???

Vegas :eek:

Angel was in Vegas before, he's telling stories like an old man...

Who are the Blue Man Group ??? o_O

Lorne is having fun doing this... :D

Lady Marmalade, I wonder if everyone in the crowd knows what the French lyrics mean...

Culinary school in Paris, They still have those ???

Is there anyone that Angel did not meet ??? o_O

So he predicted that one of his audience members will become a senator ??? :eek:

Poor Lorne :(

The way Wes pronounces some words is peculiar...

I don't like gambling so this makes me a bit uncomfortable...

Gunn ran out of chips, helps girlfriend instead of getting more...

Angel, not here...

Cordy has a point, this place is freaky...

Fred got busted :eek:

That guy looks like the founder of the "it gets better" project :eek:

Fred is hilarious :D

Are they working with W&H seems so...

This place is creepy, can't entity Cordy do something ??? o_O

Nice :D

Lorne was really suffering :(

Angel is very robotic, I don't like it :(

Angel can't answer that question,you won't like the answer...

Kid ??? :mad:

Angel was at Elvis's wedding ??? :eek:

Cordy :eek:

Next time: Cordy has no more memories :(
 

Mr Trick

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You know I don't remember this episode being so shit, but it really is shit!:eek:

It wastes a decent idea. The plot really drags at times and just goes for the obvious ideas about Vegas being this seedy place with dark secrets. The villain is bland, and Lorne works better as a supporting character and struggles to carry his own episode. Fred saves the episode for me. Acker's comic timing made the scenes with Lorne better than they otherwise would be. And another thought. What was the point in Wesley showing up for just one scene? Would have been better if they switched back and fourth between his story and the Vegas stuff.

3/10
 

PaulParmar1

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Sineya
This episode really drags on .
The parts I love was Fred & Cordelia but majority of the episode is really bad.
The plot isn't very good either.
Best scenes were Cordelia yelling stuff at her friends lol! I love her.
This one was a tough one to re watch cause I barely got through it all.
 
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