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Discussion of 4.11 "Soulless" - Aired 2/5/2003 (WB-US)

Flannen

Flannix
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Angel's soul has been removed, and Angelus has come to the fore. Now, in the middle of a city shrouded in eternal night, the gang must try to get information from one of the most dangerous vampires ever to roam the earth.
Source: TV.com

Discuss this episode here!
 

Jules

Bite Me
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Black Thorn
Poor Connor, fighing so hard to slay all those out of town vamps. They should have just sent Lorne to read Angelus, he was singing just before Wesley went down to see him. I've missed Angelus, he's so evil and manipulative. He's danagerous even when he's behind bars. I enjoyed that when Wesley mentioned Sunnydale Angelus mentioned Buffy. I wish they'd done a cross over episode to bring her in.

When Wes shot Angelus with those darks I couldnt help comparing that to how Buffy deals with wolf Oz.

I cant believe Wes kissed Fred, so much for Wesley being prepared for dealing with Angelus. He fell right into Angelus' manipulation. Its amazing to see that even when Angelus cant actually fight he still causes incredible damage. He's messing with the Fang Gangs mind just as good as Darla did to Angel. He's ruined Fred and Gunn's relationship beyond repear, I cant believe Gunn accidently hit her.

If that family had been dead for days and there's suddenly an increase in the vampire population, why hadnt the vamps come to drink from them sooner. I'd imagine that would have been a nice easy meal for them. We know from Angelus that you can drink from the recently dead because he mentions in this episode that thats what he was going to do with the Beast's victims but their was no blood left in them.

I really dont understand why Angelus would give up all that information, even if it was useless, just so he could have Cordy. That makes no sence at all.

And that was another shocking cliff hanger of an episode!
 

PassionBecoming

Minuscule Redheaded One
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Sineya
Ugh, I don't want to even watch this. :( I'm so disappointed from the last ep. Other than Cangel stuff. *shudder* Also, I'm thinking this is the ep that I've seen a part of about three years ago. I remember Angel (then I realized it was Angelous) in a cage, talking to Cordelia. He said something about her being a screamer, she chewed him out and threatened, and then Wesley realized his soul was missing or something. Guess I'll watch and find out!

-Connor is on patrol!
-The whole "we put Angel in a jar" thing seems so wrong. :( I'm with Gunn.
-They have Angelous coming off as kind of a looney, and I'm not sure why. He was never crazy, just evil. *scratches chin*
-"That Slayer. She's a pistol." Heh.
-So...why did Wesley study up on Angelous so much?
-"Real candy ass..." Apparently Angelous is a fan of The Rock. Interesting having him interpret Angel's fantasy.
-Wesley is not so good about not letting Angel get to him. Calm down, dude.
-Ok, I had to chuckle when he was impersonating Cordelia: " 'Oh, Angel, Angel, I want to be with you but you were so bad. You ate babies!' Chicks." Hahahaha
-Yeah, I feel like sending Gunn and Fred down there alone when they've never really dealt with Angelous was probably not the best move.
-Oh, nonononono, Fred and Wesley, BAD IDEA. Bad. Bad bad. Turning against each other. Silly. Though that punch fest was a long time coming.
-Connor confronting Angelus. I didn't think that would come about so soon.
-"There should be a play." Heh.
-Now, why would Connor be stupid enough to think he could take Angelous when Angel pretty much beats his scrawny bum every time he loses his temper and attacks? Hel-lo?
-Angelous is a Mustang man. Good taste. And not good with the teamwork. Of course.
-The Preistesses are in the Yellow Pages? Heh?
-Why do I have the feeling they're dead?
-Oh, goodness, they were. :( But really, if they had been dead for days, the smell would have hit the gang right when they walked in the house.
-Pretty sure Cordy just landed in a pile of puke.
-Not sure why Cordelia felt the need to go down and aggravate Angelous more...
-And there's the part I remember. Now the Gang is missing their Champion, has no idea how to fight The Beast, and has what is pretty much the most evil vampire ever in a cage in their basement. Lovely.
 

AnthonyCordova

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Sineya
-The Preistesses are in the Yellow Pages? Heh?
Ha Ha! I thought the exact same thing! The hell is this?

This episode is very reminiscent of one of those very late Buffy S5 episodes. The danger has reached a fever pitch, it seems like there is nothing for the heroes to avail themselves of anymore, things just keep getting worse and worse, desperation is at its highest and there is no solution in sight. The Glory situation had the scoobies at that point too. Now the fang gang feels the utter hopelessness. Their situation is near the breaking point. I like it! This is all happening mid-season too! I wonder how they are going to turn everything around, against all odds.
 
Lyri
Lyri
you need to keep in mind that S4 all happened over the space of just a few weeks - I think it's just over 2. just something to keep in mind

Octavia

My arse is not pansy!
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Sineya
I love a bit of Angelus - but it did feel a bit like a constant parade down to his cell for each of the team to be manipulated and teased by Angelus. Perhaps part of his plan, but he seemed to be there just to point out each of their insecurities as fans can see too. He is super smart and I didnt remember the sexual innuendos being this bad. I am really enjoying this rewatch.
 

GraceK

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omg anyone else hate Cordy in this? the whole time she was saying " we are his only link to humanity...Angelus will hate us for that...blah blah " i wanted to smack her and say " *itch please! you have no idea". Seriously he barely spared her a glance in Sunnydale and she acts like she knows him. The only part i enjoy about this episode is Angelus's hilarious roast of Cordelia.
 
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Bluebird

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Black Thorn
omg anyone else hate Cordy in this? the whole time she was saying " we are his only link to humanity...Angelus will hate us for that...blah blah " i wanted to smack her and say " *itch please! you have no idea". Seriously he barely spared her a glance in Sunnydale and she acts like she knows him. The only part i enjoy about this episode is Angelus's hilarious roast of Cordelia.
I watched this recently, and yes, she has an air of arrogance about her over those episodes. It seems like Angel and the gang should know she's not herself, because she's really OOC.
 

GraceK

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Ye
I watched this recently, and yes, she has an air of arrogance about her over those episodes. It seems like Angel and the gang should know she's not herself, because she's really OOC.
Yes!!! She's clearly not herself and no one picked up on it. Ridiculous..sleeping with Connor should have been a HUGE red flag...but it's her saying "my Sweet" that alerts Angel to the fact that she's not herself? Lol makes
No sense
 

Out for a walk

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omg anyone else hate Cordy in this? the whole time she was saying " we are his only link to humanity...Angelus will hate us for that...blah blah " i wanted to smack her and say " *itch please! you have no idea". Seriously he barely spared her a glance in Sunnydale and she acts like she knows him. The only part i enjoy about this episode is Angelus's hilarious roast of Cordelia.

Lol..I like Cordy, but come on...you are not Buffy. ;)
 

Give Us A Kiss

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Sineya
Connor could be a slayer... but he's a guy so...

Souls can float ??? o_O

Puppies nailed to the wall, that's disturbing...

At least Angelus is in a cage...

Angelus, what happened to you ??? :(

Angelus, a bit too graphic...

Angelus, please say something relevant...:rolleyes:

Angelus, you are a hypocrite (but Buffy's a bigger hypocrite than you)...

Fred is right, Angelus is a disgusting pig...

That helped...

Something about Cordy is a little off...

Funn is officially over...

Blame, I'm tired of all of this blame... :(

Connor, Holtz took you to hell, babies don't deserve to go to hell because they haven't done anything yet...

Cordy, you aren't Buffy so stop giving people orders like you are her :rolleyes:

Angelus, you are not getting a car...

What did Cordy do ??? o_O

Angelus is talking now, Cordy offered him a good deal...

People going and killing entire families, I hate that :(

Poor Connor :(

I hope that The Beast will rot in eternal hell after he's defeated...

I think that any sane person can't wait to get rid of Angelus...

Next time: Lilah dies.
 
NeonSlayer
NeonSlayer
How is Buffy a hypocrite?

telperion66

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'Soulless' was really great and is an example of a really good season 4 episode as opposed to the later ones which were pretty lacklustre. A lot of Wesley/Angelus dialogue which was cool because it played up Wesley's history as a watcher and the fact he'd been training his whole life for an interaction like that. The episode was interesting because it was the first time we got to see the return of Angelus and him interacting with the gang. They had to play out his arc after this and to me the Faith stuff and him loose in LA never really worked. Wes saying to Gunn before he gets punched in the face, "face it Gunn, you can't give her what she needs" was brutal and was one of the standout moments of the episode.
 

BattleofDuty

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Weird to see that THIS was the episode that Sean Astin (Sam from LOTR) directed... It sorta doesn't feel as focused...

oh and the episode? delightfully meh... I've only seen this episode once, cause I usually just skip to the Faith arc.
 

Mr Trick

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I liked this episode. It's a bit clunky how easy Angelus plays the others off against each other considering they know going in that he is going to try that. Think it weakens them as characters in some ways. But there's a lot of good drama and back and forth too. Think the first couple of episodes when Angelus returns are pretty decent. He doesn't get too campy till later.
 
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