• Thank you for visiting Buffy-Boards. You obviously have exceptional taste. We just want you to know that:

    1. You really should register so you can chat with us!

    2. Fourteen thousand people can't be wrong.

    3. Buffy-Boards loves you.

    4. See 1 through 3.

    Come on, register already!

Discussion of 4.16 "Players" - Aired 3/26/2003 (WB-US)


Mar 7, 2009
After discovering that Cordelia is pregnant, the gang research what type of demon the offspring could be. Meanwhile, Gunn helps Gwen rescue a girl named Lisa from a posh house party, but realises that he has been tricked when L.I.S.A. turns out to be Gwen's latest stolen item.

Source: TV.com

Discuss this episode here!


Bite Me
Jun 18, 2003
Black Thorn
Poor Angel finding out about Cordy being pregnant, he looked so sad. I felt sorry for Connor as well. He always takes things so personal, but I guess that's more to do with his age and him being manipulated by Cordy so he's not seeing the bigger picture. Seeing Cordy's stomach move like that was very disturbing.

I'm glad Gwen's back in this episode. I do really like her character. That one clip of the guy chatting her up, her getting hit by lightening and then the guy running up probably sums up most of her life. Hearing the gang sum up what had happened was quiet funny, especially when Angel walks out of the office having over heard everything. I'm glad Angel told Wesley that Angelus didnt kill Lilah.

I really like that Gwen showed up and asked for Gunn. His character hasnt been doing much lately and he deserves a bit of action.

I'm glad that Connor was noticing Cordy's weirdness and that he called her on it. He also almost seemed remorseful about trying to kill Angel. Its just a shame that she's so good at manipulating him.

So Gwen's story had a lot of plot twists, first she was going to help a child, then she looked like she was double crossing Gunn and then the thing she was stealing was to help her. I really wish they wouldnt keep having her randomly kissing guys. At least there was a bit more of a build up between the Gunn/Gwen get together than the Angel/Gwen kiss.

I really didnt see that Cordy set up happening!


Minuscule Redheaded One
Feb 8, 2011
Northern Minnesota
-Angel's head must want to explode for various reasons
-"Put me on the short bus and send me to clueless school!"
-Another speedy pregnancy. "Grandspawn". Hahahaha. And again, Connor being a brat. They're joking because who knows what's going to come out of that uterus, not because they don't like you.
-Those belly movements. *shudder*
-Gwen is back again!! I really do like her. Ouch, lightening!
-Yeeah, demons making babies never turns out well.
-So, Angel remembers not killing Lilah, but thinks The Beast did. Hmm. And he was super classy, giving Wes condolences.
-Ooo, Gwen and Gunn working together. I like it.
-Is Connor using his brain?! Questioning things? Even precious Cordelia?
-Cordelia is way creepy and manipulative.
-Supernatural soap opera. Good call, Gunn.
-Gwen and Gunn are all fancy!! Love it.
-Well, played Gunn. He is smoooooooth.
-Don't worry Fred, I'm grossed out by Cordelia and Connor's coupling, too.
-The Lilah explanation.
-She stole the tiger back. Heh.
-I have a tingling feeling that Gwen is playing Gunn. I hope not. :(
-Love Angel insulting Cordelia without knowing it. Heh. Hit her where it hurts - ego.
-She IS playing him! UGH! I'm guessing she was hired to kidnap the girl. Man, I didn't want her to be bad.
-Gunn bribed by the fancy suit. Heehee
-Seriously, what is with Cordelia's outfit?!
-OH, no, she's gonna kill Lorne!!
-Those are some angry looking Asian dudes.
-Well, Gwen, that was quite the tantrum. If she gets "fixed" she would probably have to retire from her current job...
-Lorne all alone is making me nervous...
-Wouldn't all that electric current Gwen put out kind of destroy the device? Being as it's in a metal box and all..
-Ooo, things are getting sexy...very sexy. "Thanks for turning me...off."
-Pretty melody for Lorne to sing.
-Nice. Set up. And boy does Angel look pissed.
-Magic 8 Ball. Yes.

Another very good ep. :D *does a dance and sings* Cordy's gonna get hers. Cordy's gonna get hers.
I think Angel did know it and was testing Cordy's reaction since the Master has the ego of a small moon (and Angelus knew how to find and hit the mark as well). It struck, so Angel took it to the next level which busted her.

Give Us A Kiss

Fuffy Apologist
Feb 4, 2015
I think this episode emphasizes how desperate Gwen is for normality because she did whatever it took to steal LISA.

I get why she would steal it, no one ever dared to hug her, let alone make love with her because they were afraid of getting electrocuted.

I wonder if LISA has affected her thief skills thought...

Also liked how the Magic 8-ball said that Cordy's been a bad girl, made me laugh.

-She stole the tiger back
Isn't that what thief's are supposed to do ? :p

Give Us A Kiss

Fuffy Apologist
Feb 4, 2015
Everyone's surprised, I'm not surprised that everyone is surprised...

Angel is going to be a grandfather :eek:

Gwen :eek:

Gwen must really want that LISA thing...

Angel, where did you get that shirt??? It's so not you...:confused:

Gwen :eek:

Connor has a point, Cordy is definitely off...

Gwen collects stuff, just like the rest of us.

Supernatural soap opera :p

Too, much, security... :rolleyes:

Gunn has it all planned out :eek:

Full size spikes in the womb ??? Ouch :(

Wes has a point, he would have never slept with Lilah otherwise...

How does Angel know it's her without her even knocking ??? o_O

Cordy :eek:

Angel, you are talking to the beast's master...

What does Gwen have in mind ???

Gunn, a little hair wouldn't hurt right now...

Slo mo :p

Gwen tricked him :eek:

Gwen has a point, even the president takes vacations...

Cordy :mad:

Lorne is an empath again ???

Gwen, we don't electrocute people...

Gwen has a point, the electricity thing does alienate her...

With this device, Gwen will finally be able to have sex... :)


Lorne can sing again :D

Magic 8 ball says yes...

Next time: The baby's a higher being.

Mr Trick

Jan 9, 2015
London, UK
The Gunn-Gwen stuff was a nice distraction from the other Cordy stuff. It's a shame the writers seem to have no long term planning. One episode we get the feeling Fred and Gunn are back together. The next him and Gwen might be a thing? Then that's dropped tooo_O

The Magic 8 Ball moment was a nice way to end the episode:)


Dec 23, 2019
I don't think Angel was hurt or sad. He would have tears in his eyes. Like he did when he broke up with Buffy. I think he was more shocked then anything.

Stake fodder

Feb 6, 2021
Caught on a root
This episode cleared up a couple dangling plot threads, about Lilah's death not being Angelus's fault, and Lorne's misread of Angelus, but otherwise I didn't care much for it.

Gwen isn't a bad character, but she seems to exist only to occasionally show up for a one-off side plot. Still, the best thing about this episode was that Gunn got a chance to show he's more than just "the muscle," which I've always thought was dismissive. That macguffin Gwen stole doesn't seem to have any other purpose but to cure her, kind of lazy of the writers. And I guess Fred and Gunn really are over after he slept with Gwen.

Angel said, "I miss the halcyon days of the Beast." Me too! The Beast was a serious Big Bad, while Evil Cordelia is just not. No more suns being blotted out, instead the evil has devolved to little things to thwart the Fang Gang: voices, floating heads, and a threat to spill coffee on Angel's research. It's just kinda silly, so I hope the "baby" lives up to promise!

Well, they can't all be gems, and at least the group is finally onto Cordelia's game.
Top Bottom