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Discussion of 5.06 "The Cautionary Tale of Numero Cinco" - Aired 11/5/2003 (WB-US)

Flannen

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While researching an Aztec warrior named Tezcatcatl, Angel discovers that one of the employees of Wolfram & Hart is connected to the case. This old man was once one of 'Los Hermanos Numeros', a family of Luchadores (Mexican wrestlers) which helped the helpless until one day they were slain by Tezcatcatl. In the present day, Angel tries to help the last member discover the hero inside which he lost when his family were killed.
Source: TV.com

Discuss this episode here!
 

Jules

Bite Me
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Black Thorn
I thought this episode was a little silly, the fight scenes were amazing though, some of those stunts were awesome!

Poor Angel, being all closed off and not caring. Even though he killed the demon at the end he still didnt seem to be bothered.

The Aztec story line reminds me of the Buffy book Obsidian Fate.
 

white avenger

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I know that a lot of people don't really care for this episode, but I've always liked it, maybe because, like Number Five, I realize that there are more years in my past than remain in my future, and thinking back to the "good old days' is something that I find myself doing more and more. It seemed to me that Five was a man alone more of each day than not, and even when he wasn't alone, he was more just "among" other people than "with" them.

Imagine the last Avenger, no longer either inclined nor able to fight the evil in the world, without even anyone interested in his stories about how the helmet gave Iron Man a migraine headaches, or how Captain America always got a rash from wearing his pants so tight. Bruce Banner was allergic to pollen, and "Hulk sneeze" was almost as desrtuctive as "Hulk smash." When they weren't fighting Loki or the Mandarin, Thor was always wanting to drag everyone off to some bar and get roaring drunk, and he was the only one who never had a hang over the next morning, but his breath always stank of buffalo wings. That's how I saw Numero Cinco. The last Avenger, maybe sitting back and watching the X Men doing the job now, and knowing that, no matter how good they were, they were ever going to be Earth's Mightiest Heroes, not that anybody cared anymore.

Having Tazcatcatl come back was probably the most fun he'd had in 30 years or more. You just couldn't see the grin because of his mask.

(Of course, sometimes I tend to over analyze things too much)
 
J
Jodast
or maybe you are great and wise.
Wesley Pryce
Wesley Pryce
[No message]

PassionBecoming

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Sineya
-Security guy in a dark alley. Probably going to get eaten.
-Wrestling fan at W&H?
-"Fred, sweetie, you're sort of like a woman."
-Angel is signing docs in his own blood? Eeww. But at least he's doing good...
-I hate seeing Angel so squirrely. Doing good, but it's not "tangible". The gang is used to being in a fight. I get it.
-Spike is annoying me a lot in this series. He goes on and on about how Angel is living the "high life" and has this and that. Angel has never been about that.
-Wrestler mailman just through Angel through a window. Interesting. And kinda funny.
-Sucker-punching grandpa Moses. Heh.
-How does ghost-Spike sit in a car?
-Well, that looks like one fiesty demon thing.
-Wes, he's wearing metal armor. Aim at the head.
-Ghost leash. Heh.
-Well, Spike, you just stood there, but you made the choice of sacrifice. Heroic, yes!
-But I don't think he's done more heroic acts to "deserve" the Shanshu over Angel. Granted, Wes has a good point: Spike is basically a ghost, so...hm.
-The surviving brother is wrestler mail guy?!?! REally?
-"Only a fool would want to be a champion." Disagree.
-Ah, wrestling. Always fun to watch. They are a bit attached to those masks, though.
-Holland the legal assistant!
-"Maybe you expect too much of people." Probably. People are idiots. Seriously. And like Angel said, you don't do good to get a reward or be honored. You do it because it's right.
-Um, so Aztec guy wants Angel's heart? Does that even work the same when he's a vamp? Ah, guess not.
-Aw, Angel, you can't just go through the motions. You need purpose. You need meaning. :(
-So, make sure Aztec guy don't get talisman. that would be bad. Destroying it would probably be a good thing.
-He swallowed it?!?! Good night. Complicated way of committing suicide...
-Uhhh...hands out of the graves?!
-The look on Angel's face when the brothers run by him. "Amigo. Endele!" Yeah, I'm with you, Angel."
-The brothers are reunited. Glad Number 5 found his purpose again, even if it was only short-lived.

I always dislike seeing Angel get into those darker modes where he feels like what he's doing doesn't matter or serves no purpose. I think he has the best of intentions, is trying to make up for his past, and truly cares about good winning over evil.
 

Wesley Pryce

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I didn't like this particular episode the first time i watched it,it felt a bit silly with the "wrestling" theme and all lol :p I think that kept me from seeing the BRILLIANCE of this episode. The second time i watched it i fell in love with this ep and have loved it ever since. :) This says nothing bad about this ep,their have been quite a few BTVS and ATS eps that I wasn't too fond of the first time around but after a re-watch I adored. Among them; OMWF,restless,and the Pylea arc from Angel. Still,there are a few that i never liked too much even with multiple re-watches; "Go Fish" and "Inca Mummy girl",just saying :p :)
 
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white avenger

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I didn't like this particular episode the first time i watched it,it felt a bit silly with the "wrestling" theme and all lol :p I think that kept me from seeing the BRILLIANCE of this episode. The second time i watched it i fell in love with this ep and have loved it ever since. :) This says nothing bad about this ep,their have been quite a few BTVS and ATS eps that I wasn't too fond of the first time around but after a re-watch I adored. Among them; OMWF,restless,and the Pylea arc from Angel. Still,there are a few that i never liked too much even with multiple re-watches; "Go Fish" and "Inca Mummy girl",just saying :p :)
I think that what you call "silliness" about the wrestling scenes was, either intentionally done or accidentally brilliant, and I, being of thay generation, caught it probably before, or even if, most others did. When I was growing up, I spent a lot of time with my grandmother, possibly because she had one of those then new marvels, a television. One of the things that she was an avid fan of was professional wrestling, so, between that and old Western movies, that's how we spent our afternoons and evenings.

The wrestlers back then weren't like what we see today. Sure, there was more showmanship than athletic skill involved, but never even hint to my granny or any other fan that what they were seeing on that screen wasn't absolutely real, or you'd have a fight on your hands!

And that is my point, and what I saw in the wrestler, Numero Cinco, and his brothers. They were showmen, but the fans didn't know that. To the fans, those men, men with names like Jackie Fargo, Haystack Calhoun, and Andre the Giant, were not just heroes, but actual superheroes. That's what the Numero Brothers were to me, a trip back to "those thrilling days of yesteryear," sitting on the floor, eating fresh baked cookies, drinking a luke warm Coke, watching those huge men cavort around the ring with the grace of ballet dancers, and listening to my grandmother cheer the good guys and cuss the bad guys. If the devil ever built a robot anywhere around Atlanta, Georgia, Jackie and Haystack would be the heroes that little old lady would look to for protection.
 
Wesley Pryce
Wesley Pryce
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Wesley Pryce

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Hi again,let me clarify something,i didn't mean pro wrestling itself is silly. I used to love pro wrestling,and i still like the old wrestlers of my youth,and i didn't mean that its silly in itself,it just seemed to me that the writers were trying to depict wrestling as "real" which i found kind of unrealistic for a show i always found darkly mature. BUT,that was ONLY my first impression upon watching it the first time,since my first re-watch of that ep I've seen that they weren't depicting pro wrestling as "real" or "competitive" but were just saying that's what they did for a living. I didn't quite catch that the first time,I'm a bit slow sometimes :p sorry for the unfortunate misunderstanding :)

---------- Post added at 08:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:34 PM ----------

Great im a rant-a-holic myself :D
 
white avenger
white avenger
no problem. You gave me the opportunity to go off on my long winded rants.

Give Us A Kiss

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Sineya
This is probably going to suck...

What is going on ??? :eek:

Number 5, please take off that mask...

Fred is only sort of a woman ??? o_O

Angel, get used to the new era...

Spike has a good point, Angel was never a ghost...

100 year olds can't usually kick people...

How many types of masses are there ??? o_O

This place is freaky...

The demon needs a dental job...

Spike keeps on popping up everywhere, just like a real ghost :p

It's number 5 :eek:

So they used to wrestle ??? :confused:

The story seems a bit too good to be true...

Angel has a point, number 5 expects too much from people...

Wes and Gunn seemed to have figured out the types of victims he takes...

Poor Angel :(

Wes doesn't remember the prophecy, at least Connor has a normal life now...

Spike, Angel is not a drama queen...:mad:

Senor Angel ??? o_O

Vampires (or not) :eek:

Good job :D

Next time: Wesley's father comes to visit.
 

Mr Trick

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Hi again,let me clarify something,i didn't mean pro wrestling itself is silly. I used to love pro wrestling,and i still like the old wrestlers of my youth,and i didn't mean that its silly in itself,it just seemed to me that the writers were trying to depict wrestling as "real" which i found kind of unrealistic for a show i always found darkly mature. BUT,that was ONLY my first impression upon watching it the first time,since my first re-watch of that ep I've seen that they weren't depicting pro wrestling as "real" or "competitive" but were just saying that's what they did for a living. I didn't quite catch that the first time,I'm a bit slow sometimes :p sorry for the unfortunate misunderstanding :)

---------- Post added at 08:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:34 PM ----------

Great im a rant-a-holic myself :D
I don't think the episode was pretending that Pro Wrestling was real. Its more that they were making the link between their status as heroes in the wrestling ring and their status outside it and how both faded. If anything it was just showing how serious wrestling is taken within Mexican culture.

This is one of my least favourite episodes. Linking Angel's destiny to that of Number 5 and his fellow wrestlers is weak. Plus Angel has done the pep talk about why you fight the good fight lots of time. It was not needed again here.
 
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