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Discussion of 5.11 "Damage" - Aired 1/28/2004 (WB-US)

Flannen

Flannix
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When an emotionally unstable woman, Dana, escapes from a psychiatric ward, Angel learns that she was tortured as a child and is now searching for her tormentor. Andrew, a watcher-in-training, arrives from Sunnydale with surprising information about Buffy and to inform the group that Dana is also a vampire slayer.
Source: TV.com

Discuss this episode here!
 

Jules

Bite Me
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Black Thorn
In the opening scene Dana is very much like the First Slayer in the way that she moves and also using the blood to mark a similar signature on her face.

The scene with the gang in Angel's office really showed how Gunn is different from the rest of them. Like Angel said, I liked the old Gunn better :) Harmony was so funny when she was telling Angel what had happened with Dana. It also had similarities with Faith's escape from the secure hospital.

I love watching the different ways Spike and Angel go about their investigations. How very fitting of Spike to say the same things to this slayer that he did to the first slayer that he killed.

I've missed Andrew!! His Lord of the Ring references were great and the Buffy helped comment was hillarious. I also really enjoyed hearing about what the Scoobies had been doing.

When they said that vampire slayers sometimes get visions of the slayers that have died before them, I wonder if Faith and Kendra ever received visions of Buffy dying at the hands of the Master, or Faith receiving visions of Kendra being killed by Dru.

I loved Andrew's comment to Angel about having 12 slayers with him, none of which had ever dated him! Although I wished it had been Buffy or Faith that had appeared as back up. I think it would have sent the message home to Angel more strongly than Andrew saying they dont trust him.

I was so shocked at Spike having his arms cut off! I liked the Spike/Angel scene at the end.

This episode goes back to the theme of Buffy and Angel. Angel has always been the darker show. Buffy at the end of Season 7 was all about giving those girls, the potentials, their power, their ability to take control of their destiny and protect themselves. Angel showed the dark side of the Slayer. It showed the flaws in Buffy's plan and that she has inflicted her own sort of evil on the world by empowering all those slayers without the guidence they need.
 

PassionBecoming

Minuscule Redheaded One
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Sineya
Alright, this is the one episode of AtS I have seen previous to this watch. I didn't really know what was going on, but it was good to have the link back to Sunnydale.

-Wouldn't they have a guard on a secure unit?
-Oh, my. I didn't see that beginning part. Quite gruesome...
-Gunn is so hot, all in his suit and speaking legalese.
-I love Fred's outfit - cream sweater with gray jeans.
-I would think if Eve got fired the SP would just assign a new liaison...
-Possessed...or a slayer....
-"Is pathological idiot an actual medical term?" Heh
-Ooo, go nurse for spilling the beans!
-Straight for the donuts. Smart girl.
-Now how is it that just her size jeans are sitting right on top?? I always have to dig for like, 10 minutes at stores...
-Romanian gypsy talk ringing a bell, Angel?
-The vampire blood-smelling thing is just so icky, even if handy.
-Ooo, Angel is putting the puzzle pieces together.
-Spike, you bonehead. Can't fix everything by fighting! Also, do Slayers just automatically know how to fight? Because Dana is fairing decent against a pretty epic fighter...Buffy apparently didn't need all that training. ;)
-Spike, you have done your fair share of pavement bouncing. Time to quit that experiment! And no, Spike, not a Chinese demon.
-ANDREW is Giles' top guy?!?! And, oh, dear goodness, his hair...
-Ah, this is where I started watching this one. The Tale...
-Sunnydale Surprise. Buffy the Vampire Slayer Extraordinaire. Lesbian Witch. Oh, Andrew.
-Why does Andrew have a British flag on his lunch bag?? And Goldfish crackers? OH, my.
-Insane chick with superpowers? Faith Part Deux?
-Spike does have a point there. And also, I don't feel like Dana could take down Spike or Angel.
-Aww, the nice dock guy. :(
-Going to get the house to talk, eh?
-This makes me so sad. :( Sometimes the things some kids see and hear is just so wrong.
-Spike? Heh? Is she just imagining that?
-Dawn went to school in Rome? Interesting.
-Again, could an untrained slayer really put up a fight against Spike like that?
-Well, those voices in her head taught her some stuff.
-WHISKEY!
-She. Took. Off. His. HANDS?!?!?!
-"You killed her. You killed them both." Finally starting to feel sorry, Spike?
-Angel and Fang Gang to the rescue!!
-"Where do you think my orders came from?" Ouch.
-I do believe Mr. Spike learned a lesson.
 

Silverspike

Scooby
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1,565
This is one of my absolute fav AtS stories. I loved the character of Dana and loved how in this story the writers are dealing with the fallout from Chosen and flagging how problematic that empowerment spell could be in the wrong hands.

The whole thing had a kind of X Files vibe to me mood wise. Could have done without the inclusion of Andrew, but hey thats a minor quibble.

Loved this dialoge which shows Spikes carrying on getting to grips with his soul and imo which brings him that bit closer to to understanding Angel.

ANGEL
(walks in)
A lot of pain?

SPIKE
More than I'd like. But not as much as you would. Just what I deserve.

ANGEL
(sighs)
I didn't say that.

SPIKE
No. I did. The lass thought I killed her family. And I'm supposed to what, complain 'cause hers wasn't one of the hundreds of families I did kill? I'm not sayin' you're right... 'cause, uh... I'm physically incapable of saying that. But, uh... for a demon... I never did think that much about the nature of evil. No. Just threw myself in. Thought it was a party. I liked the rush. I liked the crunch. Never did look back at the victims.

ANGEL
I couldn't take my eyes off them. I was only in it for the evil. It was everything to me. It was art. The destruction of a human being. I would've considered Dana a masterpiece.

SPIKE
What happens to her?

ANGEL
I don't know. Um, Andrew and the slayers took her. Didn't trust us to help her.

SPIKE
Andrew double-crossed us? That's a good move.
(chuckles)
Hope for the little ponce yet. Though the tingling in my forearms tells me she's too far gone to help. She's...one of us now. She's a monster.

ANGEL
She's an innocent victim.

SPIKE
So were we... once upon a time.
 

Charmander

Potential
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I like Andrew's hair. Usually people look worse after they return to a show, but Lindsay and Andrew are looking fine!
I do think this episode would have been even better with a different member of Buffy's crew (Maybe Giles or Xander since they've never been on) but it was still a great episode.
Angel looks a bit like a surly teenager at the end when he has his arms crossed Andrew takes away Dana; you can see where Connor gets it from!
 

white avenger

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The whole "Buffy doesn't trust you, Angel," is so obviously straight from Giles that ol' Rupert should have delivered it himself. If Buffy didn't trust Angel, she would have said it herself, face to face, not through any middle man.
 

DeadlyDuo

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Rewatched this episode. It's quite a heavy story and quite gruesome. Spike's hands being cut off- I knew it was going to happen but seeing those stumps is still quite shocking.

The scene at the end between Angel and Spike is quite powerful. However, I do wonder if it would've been even more powerful if Spike was still soulless and the depravity of what that man did to Dana was too much even to him.
 
spikenbuffy
spikenbuffy
But he was soulless, he wouldn't feel guilty

GraceK

Grr Arrg
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I think Xander would have been so much better in this episode than Andrew. Given the history between Angel and Xander it would have been perfect
 

Give Us A Kiss

Fuffy Apologist
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1,777
Sineya
Mental hospital mix-up, ouch...

This whole season is very much all over the place...

Girl needs to chill...

Fred, it's a business man thing...

Fire Eve please :D

Spike :eek:

In this world, demon possession makes perfect sense...

We don't eat from stores :mad:

Flashbacks, bad flashbacks :(

What's so special about Romanian ??? o_O

She's a potential :eek:

Angel, it takes a while to wrap your head around that...

Andrew :eek:

Andrew still has a crush on Spike...

Not surprised that he's going to a therapist...

Fred, you caught on.

Angel, Spike, stop acting like children :mad:

Lorne,won't help...

Poor girl :(

She might be onto something...

It was Spike :eek:

Glad to hear that Dawn is back in school :)

Andrew, don't tell her :mad:

She's here :eek:

Andrew still has some work to do...

Spike, please don't remind me of that thing you had with Buffy... :rolleyes:

This is just disturbing to watch...

I might have to change my avatar on Tumblr after this since I'll never be able to look at Spike the same way again...

Spike is getting exactly what he deserved...

Spike has no hands :eek:

It's not Spike after all ??? :D

Angel, not helping...

At least Spike will be getting his hands back :)

More potentials :eek:

Andrew has grown quite a bit though...:)

At least Spike has his hands back :D

Next time: Cordy dies :(
 

white avenger

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I think Xander would have been so much better in this episode than Andrew. Given the history between Angel and Xander it would have been perfect
I've always thought that Andrew was fine throughout the episode, but that it would have worked out much better if Xander, or maybe Giles, had been the one to show up with the squad of Slayers to collect Dana. Andrew was perfectly in character with his whole Junior Watcher persona right up to the end, but that last scene just didn't fit with his character. Also "Buffy doesn't trust you anymore," just isn't what he would have said, or how he would have said it. He would have come up with something much more dramatic, and, of course, silly. The Andrew that we all knew and felt exasperation for would have said the word, "Vampyre," at least three times in that speech.
 

caitaintdead

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I have a question - is it ever mentioned in the comics what happens to Dana after they take her away?
 

DeadlyDuo

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Is the whole "Slayers get the memories of previous slayers" a retcon?

Dana thought Spike was the person who killed her family, despite having never met him before, because she had the memories of previous slayers mixing with her own. However, when Buffy met Spike in Season 2, she had no clue who he was and the scoobies had to research him. If Buffy had the memories of previous slayers, shouldn't she have "remembered" Spike or at the very least had the sense that he was familiar because she would've gotten the memories of both the Chinese slayer during the Boxer Rebellion plus the memories of Nikki Wood?

Also, Andrew and the new slayers take Dana away but are any of them trained to deal with mental illness? You have a highly unstable person with super strength who is in need of proper mental health care, are they capable of providing it?
 

thrasherpix

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IIRC (I could be confusing this with the non-canon movie), when Buffy was called she did get "dream fragments" of other Slayers. Nevertheless, she did not recognize Spike (or did Spike's presence inspire any dreams of "former Slayers" as far as we know). Also, Kendra did not know who Buffy was and was also surprised that Buffy had died. (And I'm pretty sure Faith said she heard about Buffy before coming to Sunnydale.)

That would imply retcon. However, if one's mind is so fragmented, especially in say a dissociation state (like multiple personalities), then perhaps it could allow for an unusual, even unique, memory of "past lives" (which even here were clouded and not entire accurate). Another factor is that if she's locked up and drugged out of her mind then there's less to distract her as other Slayers would have to do so that she could "explore" that side of her (as in it's the only thing she has to occupy her mind), especially given that she likely had Slayer dreams and warnings (though she was unable to act upon them, though who knows, maybe she dusted a vampire orderly before the show...)

Complicating the issue is that the First Slayer seems to have a psychic connection with other Slayers, even Buffy, though only rituals or powerful magic can make it conscious. (Hmm, it just occurs to me, we have argued many times of the ethics of the Slayer Awakening spell that affected so many people, but I don't think anyone has considered the perspective of the First Slayer herself, and what effect the spell may have had on her...and what she might do in response. :oops: )
 

Btvs fan

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Is the whole "Slayers get the memories of previous slayers" a retcon?

Dana thought Spike was the person who killed her family, despite having never met him before, because she had the memories of previous slayers mixing with her own. However, when Buffy met Spike in Season 2, she had no clue who he was and the scoobies had to research him. If Buffy had the memories of previous slayers, shouldn't she have "remembered" Spike or at the very least had the sense that he was familiar because she would've gotten the memories of both the Chinese slayer during the Boxer Rebellion plus the memories of Nikki Wood?

Also, Andrew and the new slayers take Dana away but are any of them trained to deal with mental illness? You have a highly unstable person with super strength who is in need of proper mental health care, are they capable of providing it?
What the hell were Giles and Buffy thinking placing the care of young girls under Andrew in the first place. I need a better reason than simply because the show can get Tom Lenk back . Though considering how Buffy behaved in " S8 and S9" I'm not sure Joss had the self awareness for that
 

DeadlyDuo

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What the hell were Giles and Buffy thinking placing the care of young girls under Andrew in the first place. I need a better reason than simply because the show can get Tom Lenk back . Though considering how Buffy behaved in " S8 and S9" I'm not sure Joss had the self awareness for that
I think NB asked if he could be in Angel Season 5 but he got turned down.
 

Btvs fan

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I think NB asked if he could be in Angel Season 5 but he got turned down.
I get that but from an Universe perspective I'm racking my brains to reason how Buffy and Giles put him in charge of a bunch of vulnerable young girls and I can't for the life of me think of a reason 🤷‍♂️
 

Ethan Reigns

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Sineya
What the hell were Giles and Buffy thinking placing the care of young girls under Andrew in the first place. I need a better reason than simply because the show can get Tom Lenk back . Though considering how Buffy behaved in " S8 and S9" I'm not sure Joss had the self awareness for that
Maybe they thought that Andrew would not attempt to take liberties with the girls since he is gay.
 
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