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Discussion of 5.11 "Damage" - Aired 1/28/2004 (WB-US)

FaithLehane16

"Tact is not saying true stuff. I'll pass."
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Andrew has a crush on Spike, gives Spike more credit, and doesn't sound aware that Angel has been in the demon hunting business much longer than Spike has, looks at Angel like he doesn't deserve to be King of a big business, thinks that Spike is better than Angel, and isn't aware that Angel sacrificed his own happiness for Buffy's and the world's safety.

If only Buffy and Giles knew that Spike was alive......
 

GreyWalker1958

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Andrew has a crush on Spike, gives Spike more credit, and doesn't sound aware that Angel has been in the demon hunting business much longer than Spike has, looks at Angel like he doesn't deserve to be King of a big business, thinks that Spike is better than Angel, and isn't aware that Angel sacrificed his own happiness for Buffy's and the world's safety.

If only Buffy and Giles knew that Spike was alive......

IMHO, there's a part of Buffy that knew Spike would return in some way. Giles, being Giles, dgaf except, keep quiet about the Twilight stuff while dealing with Faith til the **** hit the fan
 

FaithLehane16

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IMHO, there's a part of Buffy that knew Spike would return in some way. Giles, being Giles, dgaf except, keep quiet about the Twilight stuff while dealing with Faith til the **** hit the fan
That isn't my point though. My point is that it was pretty selfish of him to keep his resurrection quiet because he has insecurities towards Angel. Also Andrew isn't that smart. Angel is a catch, and wasn't selfish in anyway when it came to Buffy unlike Spike is toward Buffy.
 
K
katmobile
God I wish there was a dislike button for this.

GreyWalker1958

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That isn't my point though. My point is that it was pretty selfish of him to keep his resurrection quiet because he has insecurities towards Angel. Also Andrew isn't that smart. Angel is a catch, and wasn't selfish in anyway when it came to Buffy unlike Spike is toward Buffy.

To be fair to Spike, it'd be a tough one to try to pinpoint her despite all the W&H resources (even if Angel blockaded him from doing so) had the thought occured to him once Lindsay's packaged got opened up.

Re: Andrew- I still maintain Joss and Marti killed the wrong dweeb
 

FaithLehane16

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To be fair to Spike, it'd be a tough one to try to pinpoint her despite all the W&H resources (even if Angel blockaded him from doing so) had the thought occured to him once Lindsay's packaged got opened up.

Re: Andrew- I still maintain Joss and Marti killed the wrong dweeb
But that thought was taken away in this episode, where he wants to keep quiet and make Angel look bad because of his involvement at W&H. Spike knows that Buffy won't let go of Angel, so he wants to make himself look better to Buffy's eyes. By doing that, he took advantage of this opportunity to hide his resurrection. There is a reason why Spike got himself a soul-----because Angel has a soul.

They should have killed Andrew instead of Jonathan. I think they only kept Andrew around for comedy relief.
 

katmobile

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Andrew has a crush on Spike, gives Spike more credit, and doesn't sound aware that Angel has been in the demon hunting business much longer than Spike has, looks at Angel like he doesn't deserve to be King of a big business, thinks that Spike is better than Angel, and isn't aware that Angel sacrificed his own happiness for Buffy's and the world's safety.

If only Buffy and Giles knew that Spike was alive......
In fairness no one knows because Angel himself removed that memory. Andrew knows Spike has seen the change whereas he knows Angel just from what he's been told probably from Giles who isn't really an advocate for Angel.

That isn't my point though. My point is that it was pretty selfish of him to keep his resurrection quiet because he has insecurities towards Angel. Also Andrew isn't that smart. Angel is a catch, and wasn't selfish in anyway when it came to Buffy unlike Spike is toward Buffy.
Hard disagree.
 

GreyWalker1958

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But that thought was taken away in this episode, where he wants to keep quiet and make Angel look bad because of his involvement at W&H. Spike knows that Buffy won't let go of Angel, so he wants to make himself look better to Buffy's eyes. By doing that, he took advantage of this opportunity to hide his resurrection. There is a reason why Spike got himself a soul-----because Angel has a soul.

They should have killed Andrew instead of Jonathan. I think they only kept Andrew around for comedy relief.
Only Andrew was never funny. Just awkward and annoying
 

FaithLehane16

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In fairness no one knows because Angel himself removed that memory. Andrew knows Spike has seen the change whereas he knows Angel just from what he's been told probably from Giles who isn't really an advocate for Angel.
Giles is more for Angel than he is for Spike.
Hard disagree.
I severely disagree with you since I've watched the show 1,000 times.

Only Andrew was never funny. Just awkward and annoying
And stupid. Don't forget stupid.
 
GreyWalker1958
GreyWalker1958
Especially stupid. Chambliss and Gage reaffirmed that as much with S9 & 10.

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I severely disagree with you since I've watched the show 1,000 times.
Oh, so if I've seen it 1,001 times I know better than you? That's a little harsh. However you feel about the show, that's not fact, it's opinion. You don't have to be rude.
 

DeadlyDuo

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Jonathan would've been a better addition than Andrew. He can do comedy as well as more dramatic scenes.

Andrew needs Warren and Jonathan (Warren especially) to play off of. The scenes between Andrew and the first masquerading as Warren and Jonathan are some of the funniest scenes in Season 7 and I enjoy those scenes. However, when it's Andrew on his own. he's annoying. He's just there. He gets outshined by the main cast in every scene he's in with them. Jonathan at least holds his own.
 

Btvs fan

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Jonathan would've been a better addition than Andrew. He can do comedy as well as more dramatic scenes.

Andrew needs Warren and Jonathan (Warren especially) to play off of. The scenes between Andrew and the first masquerading as Warren and Jonathan are some of the funniest scenes in Season 7 and I enjoy those scenes. However, when it's Andrew on his own. he's annoying. He's just there. He gets outshined by the main cast in every scene he's in with them. Jonathan at least holds his own.

Regardless, its amazing that Buffy and Giles put in Andrew in charge of a bunch of teenage girls. I couldn't think if anyone less qualified. Xander would've been a better character for that role but I'm guessing NB and his addictions put paid to that
 
KaitKat
KaitKat
Andrew may be a qualified researcher but I can’t believe anyone would make him a watcher to one girl let alone in charge of the Rome Squad. I say this as someone who liked his character.

GreyWalker1958

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Regardless, its amazing that Buffy and Giles put in Andrew in charge of a bunch of teenage girls. I couldn't think if anyone less qualified. Xander would've been a better character for that role but I'm guessing NB and his addictions put paid to that

Pretty sure NB was still in normal form by the time AtS S5 was in production l. That plus there was Celeste In The City that was filming, IIRC.

With Xander, it makes more sense that he'd be the one to say to Angel "she doesn't trust you" when its just him being an asshole to him again. When Andrew does it, he comes off a right try-hard and unconvincing. Plus the next time we see him, its a miracle Dana didn't rough him or the girls up once awake at the Scots castle HQ (or wherever tf Buffy, Dawn, and Xander were during this time before S8 #1)
 

Btvs fan

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Pretty sure NB was still in normal form by the time AtS S5 was in production l. That plus there was Celeste In The City that was filming, IIRC.

With Xander, it makes more sense that he'd be the one to say to Angel "she doesn't trust you" when its just him being an asshole to him again. When Andrew does it, he comes off a right try-hard and unconvincing. Plus the next time we see him, its a miracle Dana didn't rough him or the girls up once awake at the Scots castle HQ (or wherever tf Buffy, Dawn, and Xander were during this time before S8 #1)

Dana is not mentioned again after this. Joss just forgot or ignored her
 

GreyWalker1958

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Dana is not mentioned again after this. Joss just forgot or ignored her

Which pretty much leaves me to assume she's more or less among the 206 Slayers dead by Twilight Kitty. Her and maybe Rona (who does get mentioned in early on in S8 but never appeared ever again)
 

Lovetheearth

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Buffy at the end of Season 7 was all about giving those girls, the potentials, their power, their ability to take control of their destiny and protect themselves. Angel showed the dark side of the Slayer. It showed the flaws in Buffy's plan Andrew that she has inflicted her own sort of evil on the world by empowering all those slayers without the guidence they need.

Great point.

Dark episode indeed - I actually gasped at the chopped off hands. Interesting point raised by Spike at the end, 'We were innocent victims once too'. Angel wants things to be black and white, but this world really isn't.
 

Wesxfred

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I literally loved this episode so much! I really loved Dana's story and it was way creepy when she was in that room with Spike. It's probably one of my favorite episodes of the series and it was so interesting to see the aftershock of Buffy's decision in Chosen. Also, Andrew is so adorableeeeeeee! Gunn is so cute as well with his new lawyer mojo. Plus, I laughed out loud when Fred discovered the thing about the Whiskey because of her character of dollhouse 😂😂
This is a 10/10 episode for me...






ALSO SHE CHOPPED OFF HIS FREAKING ARMSSSS AAAHHHHH!!!
 

Stake fodder

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A fascinating study in the downsides of the Slayer activation spell, this episode also finally brings back the introspective Spike of early BtVS S7, which I have missed this season.

Hurrah for Andrew being back! They got his character pitch perfect, I thought, right down to his affected hand gesture as he tells everyone to "gather round." And come on, Spike, give Andrew a hug! Who else is ever going to be this delighted to see him? (Hint: not Buffy!)

Dana's psychosis apparently gives her powers beyond other Slayers. She seems to have psychic abilities, speaking to Spike and Angel in Chinese and Romanian, respectively, and even pulling off Spike's coat as he lies on the floor, in a repetition of Robin Wood. Alas that she probably cannot be returned to sanity.

It's a nice turnaround that Angel gets to save Spike, though his reward is Andrew's gut-punch that the Slayers no longer trust him. (Though really, Angel should take whatever Andrew says with a grain of salt.) I wish that one of the Slayers that Andrew brought had been one of the former Potentials from BtVS, for a little continuity.

I did wonder if Spike's hands couldn't be re-attached via the usual vampire healing powers - just laying them against the forearms - but it's a good callback to Lindsey's hand surgery. Spike seems to be taking himself too seriously as a hero now, and he's too rash.

I loved the last scene between Angel and Spike. They may never be friends, but perhaps in some ways, they are each the only one that can help the other work through their history. I thought it was an interesting twist that Spike sees Dana as irredeemable, while Angel sees her more as victim still. That's the opposite of their own self-images, with Spike telling Angel he needs to "let go" of his eternal remorse, and Angel resenting that Spike only spent "three weeks in a basement" before moving on from his past.
 
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