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Discussion of 5.12 "Checkpoint" - Aired 1/23/01 (WB-US)

AnthonyCordova

modulating between criticism and reconstruction
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Sineya
My only problem with the episode was how it ended. Sure, Buffy puts it straight to the council; but you mean to tell me that, after travelling all the way from England, after all of their threats towards Giles and Buffy, that one simple speech was going to totally change their minds immediately? You mean to tell me that all Buffy had to do was challenge them one time and suddenly their only response is, "well, okay, you win"? I'd expect them to put up a fight and to at least argue about it. Or be stubborn or make more threats or something. I thought they had more resolve than that.

I liked everything else about the episode.
 
Wesley Pryce
Wesley Pryce
[No message]
K
katmobile
I'm pretty sure I said no interruptions and I think Quentin's understanding me put them in their place

PassionBecoming

Minuscule Redheaded One
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Sineya
My only problem with the episode was how it ended. Sure, Buffy puts it straight to the council; but you mean to tell me that, after travelling all the way from England, after all of their threats towards Giles and Buffy, that one simple speech was going to totally change their minds immediately? You mean to tell me that all Buffy had to do was challenge them one time and suddenly their only response is, "well, okay, you win"? I'd expect them to put up a fight and to at least argue about it. Or be stubborn or make more threats or something. I thought they had more resolve than that.

I've thought that, too, but they also have an interest in the world not getting sucked into a hell dimension. The best way to prevent that is to share with Buffy whatever knowledge and resources they have, and she wasn't going to want anything to do with them at all unless they bent to her will.
 

thetopher

Member of the Church Of Faith
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Sineya
The point of the episode was that the Watchers council wanted Buffy back on side, but on their terms. When she calls their bluff with that awesome speech :))), what are they going to do? Take their ball and go home?
No, they're going to swallow their pride, because of what Buffy says (and the way she says it) and they're going to help her. Because ultimately they're good guys too.

One of the best lines from this ep: "They put me through that thing, that test and almost killed me and then, when I was Faith, they almost killed me again. Honestly, I cannot handle more almost being killed again right now!"
 
PassionBecoming
PassionBecoming
[No message]
Xin Rong
Xin Rong
[No message]

Wild At Heart

the moon lights his way
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I'm sorry but I have no respect for The Council or for Quentin Travers. I love that Buffy called them out & put them in their place at the end. The whole time he's on his high & mighty kick, I'm just thinking okay so if you don't give the information to her, what are you gonna do...are YOU going to go up against Glory?! Buffy had a lot more patience with them than I ever could've had. I hated him when he showed up in Helpless & this makes it even worse. I was so happy when Buffy quit The Council. The only good thing that came about from them deciding to work together again in this episode is that Giles is finally being compensated the way he should be & obviously the information they learn about Glory. That man though just irks me. I wouldn't have been against seeing Buffy give him a good ass kicking at least once. He had a lot of nerve to throw threats around.
 
Ethan Reigns
Ethan Reigns
I was waiting for the Council to become the Big Bad for one season.

PassionBecoming

Minuscule Redheaded One
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Sineya
The whole time he's on his high & mighty kick, I'm just thinking okay so if you don't give the information to her, what are you gonna do...are YOU going to go up against Glory?!

That's what I really didn't get - so, you're going to withhold information from the Slayer...who is supposed to save the world a lot...and is protecting The Key...

Makes the kind of sense that doesn't!
 
Wild At Heart
Wild At Heart
[No message]

Give Us A Kiss

Fuffy Apologist
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Messages
2,753
Sineya
The council has some information, will it be of any use ??? o_O

Tara, they are not Gileses :(

Tara, that's just a stereotype :p

Buffy... :rolleyes:

What's wrong with Glory ??? o_O

Glory :mad:

Mousy ??? :eek:

Giles isn't impressed with all the criticism...

Anya, not falling for that backstory...

Giles, you jinxed it :mad:

Buffy, shut up...

Buffy, take it out on the vamp :D

Spike, don't slay Buffy's vampires for her... :mad:

Ben is in disbelief over hearing that Buffy is the slayer, understandable.

Giles is right, Buffy is not an instrument...

Glory, don't suck his brains out :mad:

Giles, your glasses...

Anya, I can tell you are lying...

Willow, Tara, nice :D

Anya, we don't bribe with muffins :mad:

They are questioning Spike :rolleyes:

Poor Buffy...

The council is creepy...

Glory :eek:

Glory, why would Buffy do that ??? o_O

Glory, you evil monster...

Spike, everything goes stale...

Very poor Buffy...

Buffy has power, the council doesn't and neither is Glory...

Buffy, I applaud you for the speech :D

Glory is a god :eek:

Next time: Dawn finds out she is the key.
 

Fool for Buffy

I'm just being a big nerd again
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Sineya
This episode gets better with every rewatch.

Glory is always entertaining but this is one of her best episodes for sure. She's actually kind of sweet in a terrifying way, and Buffy needed the encounter with Glory to stand up to the Watchers. Without the understanding Buffy gained about leverage and power she'd be doing a review for as long as Quentin wanted. As seen in other instances as well, Glory's view on the world is simple and dumb, but can also be interpreted as realistic, and perhaps even wise.

Buffy trusting Spike to take care of Joyce and Dawn is a really underrated and genuinely nice moment between the two. Even if it can be interpreted as desperate, I find it moving and sense her respect for him that has actually continued to grow. I realize it goes down, up, and back down again, but times like these are still something I appreciate.

Dawn's role in this episode with all the sneaking around and trying to invade Buffy's private concentrations seems kind of pointless in the grand scheme. Despite all the effort she puts in over the course of the first half of the season to piece together things she doesn't know, her finding out she is the key in the next episode is very sudden and didn't take a whole lot of effort. It's a clever anticlimax to all the secrecy.

The interviews are a very fun scene, it's definitely relatable when Tara says, "I don't think we are saying this right". Spike with the watcher who wrote about him is cute, and Anya trying to flatter her interviewer with muffins and come up with a backstory is hilarious. Since she is so capitalist, it makes a little sense that she was born on the 4th of July.

The Power Speech at the end has got to be one of my favorite moments of the show. Buffy grows up a lot in those 3 minutes as she finally makes a stand in the adult world. She had beat up demons for a long time but she beat something without superpowers or weapons this time. She used her under appreciated intellect and came to a very important and self motivating realization about who she is. If one will argue (like me) that season 5 is her best season as the slayer, this speech is a great piece to that argument.
 

margybee

Townie
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85
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This is one of my favorite episodes of the entire series. I'd put it in my top 10, maybe even top 5 along with Becoming, Innocence, Earshot, and The Gift. It depends on the day.

I love how everything leads up to Buffy's power speech. The classroom humiliation, Glory coming to her home, the Knights accosting her, the Council trying to make her fail.

"They're gonna expect me to, like, know stuff and I'm just the Slayer and I don't know anything..." She's so scared of the Council. That's from early in the episode when she's talking to Giles. They even talk about how powerful the Council is -- that they really could just send Giles away in a heartbeat if they wanted to. And there's a sweet moment when Buffy says, "they chose the perfect thing. I can't lose you."

The classroom scene makes me so angry -- that's not at all how college was for me and, I would guess, most others. We learned, we discussed, we didn't shame. I just hate that professor and the whole thing is just so wrong... I know they're trying to make Buffy feel small, but man, they really went hard on her. And standing up to speak? I never had to do that, but maybe other schools were different. It just heightens the humiliation, though, in this scene.

The Glory talk in her house was creepy, suspenseful, scary. Well done, especially to create that kind of tension in bright light.

I love the interrogation scenes and the physical ability scene... so much humor! I could quote...well, the whole thing, but I'll refrain and say instead that I think it's one of the most comedic series of moments in the whole series. The gang plays it to perfection.

And, oh, that speech at the end. Every time I watch the episode I look forward to this speech the whole time. She's incredible. She's so strong, calm, determined, knowingly superior, carefully calculated and spoken, and I just feel so proud of her. I love her defense of her friends, and Giles. And the sword throw! So epic! And I love when she turns Quentin's remarks to her right back to him: "You can all take your time thinking about that. But I want an answer right now from Quentin, because I think he's understanding me." Brilliant. Just brilliant.

So yeah, I love this episode!
 

PaulParmar1

Spuffy Forever
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Sineya
Buffy's powerful speech was amazing!
I loved that speech so much. Such a strong and empowering women.
Glory is hilarious this episode. Such a great villain.
I love Spike helping out Buffy by protecting Dawn and Joyce. Spike and Joyce's friendship is the best.
Fun to see Xander , Willow, Tara and Anya answer the questions to the watchers council.
 

AnthonyCordova

modulating between criticism and reconstruction
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Sineya
Just before the 27 minute mark, in the training room in the back of the Magic Box, you can clearly see on the very edge of the right hand screen either a boom operator or a camera assistant. I have noticed a similar mistake in an Angel episode, but this is the first time on Buffy. Sloppy.
 

Dora

Scooby
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Classic BTVS.....episodes like this is what is so great about Buffy the reason I love the show
 

Grace

Destructo-Girl
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Black Thorn
Just before the 27 minute mark, in the training room in the back of the Magic Box, you can clearly see on the very edge of the right hand screen either a boom operator or a camera assistant. I have noticed a similar mistake in an Angel episode, but this is the first time on Buffy. Sloppy.

Are you watching in wide screen? A lot of problems like that were introduced when the show was remastered. It was really poorly done.
 
AnthonyCordova
AnthonyCordova
Good point
spikenbuffy
spikenbuffy
There is some errors also in the episode A New Man, in the Spike & Glies scene in the cemetery, you can even see it in Youtube

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
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Just before the 27 minute mark, in the training room in the back of the Magic Box, you can clearly see on the very edge of the right hand screen either a boom operator or a camera assistant. I have noticed a similar mistake in an Angel episode, but this is the first time on Buffy. Sloppy.

You see a boom mike in The Wish when Harmony is talking to Cordelia in the Wishverse.
 
AnthonyCordova
AnthonyCordova
I'll have to remember to look for that
spikenbuffy
spikenbuffy
Didn't you also notice some errors in A New Man episode, Spike & Giles in the cemetery, when Spike's smoking

spikenbuffy

"Hi honey, I'm home"
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Just before the 27 minute mark, in the training room in the back of the Magic Box, you can clearly see on the very edge of the right hand screen either a boom operator or a camera assistant. I have noticed a similar mistake in an Angel episode, but this is the first time on Buffy. Sloppy.

There is some errors also in the episode A New Man, in the Spike & Glies scene in the cemetery.
 
AnthonyCordova
AnthonyCordova
Wow, it's happened even more often then I thought

Mr Trick

Scooby
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This one really needs more love. I'll admit myself I haven't watched it enough. The ending is Buffy the character returning to her best. Its a beautiful completion to the tension of the out dated Watchers culture and the more progressive Buffy side of things. The ending is simply wonderful. The key message is that Buffy broke them down with her humanity, common sense and bravely. In a way she called their bluff, played their game, but in a more honest truthful way.
 

Btvs fan

Scooby
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"Glory isnt a demon shes a God"
"Oh" 😂 That line cracks me up

I also love Buffy telling Spike she'll never need him then bringing her family to him for protection later :)
 

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
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I also love Buffy telling Spike she'll never need him then bringing her family to him for protection later :)

It always bothered me how unkindly the scoobies treat Spike, particularly Xander in season 6 referring to Spike as a "thing". I'm not saying they have to like him, and there's plenty of reasons why they shouldn't, but there is nothing wrong with treating him civilly. He's still a member of team Scoobies and he's trusted enough to protect Dawn and Joyce, the rest of the scoobies should at least acknowledge that.
 

Mr Trick

Scooby
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It always bothered me how unkindly the scoobies treat Spike, particularly Xander in season 6 referring to Spike as a "thing". I'm not saying they have to like him, and there's plenty of reasons why they shouldn't, but there is nothing wrong with treating him civilly. He's still a member of team Scoobies and he's trusted enough to protect Dawn and Joyce, the rest of the scoobies should at least acknowledge that.

I can see your point. But then considering that Spike had proved himself pretty un-trust worthy up to this point I can't really blame them. I think Xander and Giles are the main offenders in giving Spike a rough ride. Willow and Dawn actually seemed quite accepting of him.
 

Faded90

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Such an underrated episode, it’s totally perfect for me and is Buffy at her absolute best. This is the kind of scene they should have gave Buffy after the horrific mutiny in Empty Places, in fact I don’t even care just get her to recite the same thing. I adore Anya but after her terrible ‘you’re lucky’ speech I’d have loved to have seen Buffy look her dead in the eyes ‘power, I have it, they don’t. This bothers them’ . Even as a heterosexual female I think I question my sexuality every time I watch the end speech 😂

One of my favourite scenes is between Giles and Buffy after Travers has first turned up

I should have set you loose on them that’s what I should have done

Giles that Travers guys like 60 I can’t hit him...... can I?

Probably not, but I can ...... and I think I will

😂
 

thrasherpix

Scooby
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And if Buffy was this way with her friends in season 7 as she was in season 5, she wouldn't have gotten the kind of treatment she got.
 
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