• This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn more.
  • Thank you for visiting Buffy-Boards. You obviously have exceptional taste. We just want you to know that:
    1. You really should register so you can chat with us!
    2. Twelve thousand people can't be wrong.
    3. Buffy-Boards loves you.
    4. See 1 through 3.
    Come on, register already!

Discussion of 5.17 "Forever" - Aired 4/17/01 (WB-US)

Buffy Summers

Yataro
Staff member
Joined
Nov 20, 2001
Messages
30,279
Likes
4,465
Location
The City of Angels
Sineya
#1
Refusing to accept that her mother's death is the end, Dawn becomes obsessed with using magick to bring her back. Meanwhile, Buffy receives some much-needed comfort from an old friend who comes to town for the funeral.
Source: TV.com

Discuss this episode here!
 

GrrArghx

No touching my clipboard!
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
1,400
Likes
6
Age
25
Location
Atlanta, Georgia
#2
Just watched this episode for the third or fourth time and I just now realized that during that, like, 5 second scene with Giles listening to his record player; it was playing the song he & Joyce listened to in Band Candy... it made me cry all over again!
 
M
Ms.Trick
Yeah, I noticed that too!
F
FetalPig
well spotted ty
PassionBecoming
PassionBecoming
[No message]
R
Ripper666
wow never realized that!
Charmander
Charmander
[No message]

paks

Potential
Joined
Jul 26, 2010
Messages
113
Likes
0
#3
I find the opening sequence so sad in this. Where Buffy is looking at coffins for her mother. I can't help but think about the end of the season and what the gang will be having to do for Buffy. And how Dawn and Giles have to go through it all again in such a short time frame.:(
 
Charmander
Charmander
[No message]

VisionGirl

Newly Human
Joined
Aug 11, 2010
Messages
5,019
Likes
113
Age
49
Location
The Joycemobile
Sineya
#4
I have always thought of The Monkey's Paw from the very first time I saw this episode. How creepy! And Dawn references the Monkey's Paw in season 8, which makes it even stranger.

Am I the only one who felt a little thrill when I saw the words "Guest starring David Boreanaz" in the credits? It's the only time Angel appears this season, and won't appear again for more than another 2 years.

I also love that Giles' scene.

This episode is certainly not as good as The Body, but I like it.
 

FetalPig

Poltergasm
Joined
Nov 9, 2010
Messages
275
Likes
2
#5
My heart goes out to Dawn in this Episode. She's so out in the cold. Everyone at sea and following Buffy's lead, and Buffy not having found her own depth enough to be there for Dawn. Dawn feeling ignored. It could be so easy to include her but everyone is in shock.
Heartbreaking.

Did anyone else want to have the Funeral Director choke on his own script? I like how they put that in ... it makes me growl.


EDIT text of The Monkey's Paw is here:
http://www.classicshorts.com/stories/paw.html

---------- Post added at 07:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:38 PM ----------

PLUS I like that Jinx survives - he has such a nice face :)
 

PassionBecoming

Minuscule Redheaded One
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
2,316
Likes
252
Location
Northern Minnesota
Sineya
#6
Ahhh, sadness again. :(

-I was happy to see they gave Joyce a Christian burial, not just some random, generic one. I also found it odd that they did that on this show.
-Dawn is being a first-class brat in this episode, though I understand why. Both Buffy and Dawn kind of live in their own little selfish worlds without letting each other in. Buffy should have included Dawn in the plans more, and Dawn should have cut Buffy some slack for having to carry such a burden.
-I LOVE the scene of Anya and Xander in bed. Such a reminder that sex isn't just for sex - it is meant to create life, and life is what it's all about! It gave me warm fuzzies.
-In all of the conversation that Willow and Tara have with Dawn, why wouldn't Tara says, "Actually, I know how it feels to lose a mother and put her in the ground." Um, hello?
-I really like the Buffy and Angel scene, too, especially seeing where Angel was in his LA life. They really are sweet together, and Angel gives her such good counsel. It makes me sad that Buffy doubts her life-living abilities so much. It makes me happy that Angel came to her; I think she really needed it. They still love each other so much right now.
-I REALLY loved hearing the Bangel love song again. It's one of my favorite scores on the show.
-Shame. On. Willow. Seriously.
-"Mind the rug, sweetie, blood's a b*tch." I do enjoy Glory.
-Shame on Spike, too.
-Lizard guy is chanting the Dance of the Sugarplum Fairy. HILARIOUS!!
-People messing with changing life and death just tick me off. And why didn't Willow just do this spell to bring Buffy back? Maybe the other one is more accurate or something.
-Do Gora demons just always have eggs? Lucky for Dawn she happened to lay some recently.
-Willow is the worst liar EVER.
-I was sort of glad Buffy slapped Dawn. She is such a freaking brat. NOT EVERYTHING IS ABOUT YOU, DAWN. You haven't even been around and Buffy is literally putting her life and the lives of everyone she loves on the line to keep you alive.
-I liked how they played Buffy wanting Joyce back so much at the end. Also, the cry fest. They needed that in a bad way.
 
Joined
Oct 9, 2011
Messages
518
Likes
42
Age
34
Location
Cheshire
Sineya
#7
Joyce's funeral at the begining is so sad, I always get teary :( She was a really nice character :(
It was nice that Angel came for Buffy and I just have to say Yay! for Bangel smoochies! lol :D
Dawn once again annoys me, with her selfish, spoilt brat ways and temper :mad:
I thought it was a nice touch having Giles listening to the song him and Joyce listened to, it was sort of 'their song' :)
That little crazy demon guy creeps me out :looking:
I thought the 3 headed demon looked kinda crap, wasn't impressed :indifferent:
Buffy's speech to Dawn at the end is soo sad, makes me all teary eyed! :(
 

kittenpoker

Raising penguins in Guam
Joined
Apr 17, 2011
Messages
1,949
Likes
14
Age
41
Location
Boston, MA
Sineya
#8
I agree that that last scene where they (buffy and dawn) switched roles and buffy wanted to bring her mom back, the knock on the door and her hopeful "mommy??" and dawn's realization that it was wrong to bring her back.... was soooo touching.

Also i want to mention that for a soulless demon (spike) he makes a damn selfless and amazingly caring "older brother" to dawn. He risks his life to help her bring her mom back, even though he knows it's not right - just because he knows it's what she wants - it's the comfort she's seeking.
 

Ripper666

Home sweet virtual home!
Joined
Oct 9, 2011
Messages
1,280
Likes
3
Location
Germany
#9
I loved this sentence from Angel (if I remember me right it's the last sentence of the episode):
Sorry I could't come earlier...
(Or something like this)
 
Joined
Jun 18, 2003
Messages
4,057
Likes
159
Age
34
Location
England
Black Thorn
#10
I love the fact that Angel comes back in this episode and were all like Riley who? :) To me it does feel like he's never left, Buffy and him are very comfortable together, they just seem to click.

I also like the scene with Spike when he brings Joyce those flowers. Its so sweet and I feel so sorry for him when Xander is being mean.
 

WileyDairyGnome

Strong like an Amazon
Joined
Jun 14, 2011
Messages
1,607
Likes
34
Age
23
Location
Ontario, Canada
Sineya
#11
Just watched this episode for the third or fourth time and I just now realized that during that, like, 5 second scene with Giles listening to his record player; it was playing the song he & Joyce listened to in Band Candy... it made me cry all over again!
I JUST noticed that now while I was rewatching this episode. It's so sweet. :(
 
Joined
Aug 23, 2012
Messages
239
Likes
3
#12
I just finished this episode. The end scene with Buffy and Dawn was brilliant, it almost had me in tears.

I also thought it was really neat how Spike tried to help Dawn, but made her promise to never mention his name. It shows he does care about people even without a soul (take that Angel), which makes sense since what little we are shown of his life shows he a sensitive person. In his own words "a bad poet, but a good man."

Willow giving Dawn the history book is something I can't decide on. Dawn had questions, but I think Willow should have found a better way to answer them. It isn't surprising that Dawn tried this though, she is hurt, and she has displayed an interest in magic before this all happened. Perhaps one of them should try to guide her, I mean as the Key she probably has a lot of power.
 

Robb Stark

King in the North
Joined
May 30, 2012
Messages
2,588
Likes
106
Location
Tempe
Sineya
#13
I just finished this episode. The end scene with Buffy and Dawn was brilliant, it almost had me in tears.

I also thought it was really neat how Spike tried to help Dawn, but made her promise to never mention his name. It shows he does care about people even without a soul (take that Angel), which makes sense since what little we are shown of his life shows he a sensitive person. In his own words "a bad poet, but a good man."

Willow giving Dawn the history book is something I can't decide on. Dawn had questions, but I think Willow should have found a better way to answer them. It isn't surprising that Dawn tried this though, she is hurt, and she has displayed an interest in magic before this all happened. Perhaps one of them should try to guide her, I mean as the Key she probably has a lot of power.
Awesome, awesome episode. A lot of Spike, and the deeper parts of his personality, are really revealed, and "Forever" exemplifies that quite a bit. What did you think about the Angel scene? That's one of my favorite parts of the entire series.
 
Joined
Aug 23, 2012
Messages
239
Likes
3
#14
Awesome, awesome episode. A lot of Spike, and the deeper parts of his personality, are really revealed, and "Forever" exemplifies that quite a bit. What did you think about the Angel scene? That's one of my favorite parts of the entire series.
I'm not a Bangel fan at all, but I did really like his scene. It shows that he really cares about Buffy. Though, it is kind of weird since I'm kind of behind on Angel. I just watched "Reunion" where he fires his team so its weird going from that darker Angel to this more caring one.
 
Evil Angelus 95
Evil Angelus 95
The many moods of Angel :P

Cordy_Chase

Tact is just not saying true stuff. I'll pass.
Joined
Jun 9, 2013
Messages
589
Likes
500
Age
31
Location
California
Sineya
#15
Just finished watching this episode and I found the portrayal of Dawn casting the spell to resurrect Joyce being exactly like the tale The Monkey's Paw by W.W Jacob to be very well done, right up the moment where she destroyed the photo and took it back just as Buffy opened the door.
(If you don't know it, give it a read: http://gaslight.mtroyal.ca/mnkyspaw.htm)

I had wondered if the news of Joyce's death had gotten to Angel and if so I knew he couldn't just ignore it. I was very glad to see him come and support Buffy. Though I wish he'd been in it more his one scene was quite a powerful display of how their love for each other is still there.

"I'll stay in town for as long as you want."
"How about forever? Is forever good for you?"


I was like 'yeah yeah, I wish' haha. Though of course we would not have the rest of his series which I had really been enjoying before I decided it was finally time to put it on hold to Buffy up. ;)
 

PassionBecoming

Minuscule Redheaded One
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
2,316
Likes
252
Location
Northern Minnesota
Sineya
#16
I had wondered if the news of Joyce's death had gotten to Angel and if so I knew he couldn't just ignore it.
Was it ever made known exactly how Angel found out? I don't recall anyone specifically saying. Though maybe Giles or Willow called him because they knew Buffy needed the support? Or maybe Angel keeps up on the Sunnydale obits?
 

Cordy_Chase

Tact is just not saying true stuff. I'll pass.
Joined
Jun 9, 2013
Messages
589
Likes
500
Age
31
Location
California
Sineya
#17
Was it ever made known exactly how Angel found out? I don't recall anyone specifically saying. Though maybe Giles or Willow called him because they knew Buffy needed the support? Or maybe Angel keeps up on the Sunnydale obits?
Excellent question, I don't believe they do explain and either one of your suggestions is entirely possible. Though I put more probability on Willow, [WARNING SPOILERS AHEAD] . I know most of you saw the whole series years ago but I happened so you never know.

She called him both when Buffy dies at the end of the season 5 AND when she's brought back in season 6 so I wouldn't put it past her to think of him in Buffy's time of need.
 
PassionBecoming
PassionBecoming
That's kind of what I was thinking, too.
Joined
Jun 2, 2013
Messages
218
Likes
73
Age
24
Location
England
#18
I can completely understand where Xander is coming from but I think it's a shame that Spike's flowers got thrown away. He actually did have a nice relationship with Joyce.
This isn't really my favourite episode but I like the ending, and I'm glad we didn't get to see Joyce, but it was sad to see Buffy suddenly looking so hopeful when she heard the knock.
 

Give Us A Kiss

Fuffy Apologist
Joined
Feb 4, 2015
Messages
1,677
Likes
1,790
Sineya
#19
Coffins, lots of coffins...

So, coffins have feelings now ??? o_O

Dawn :(

Dawn is grieving, that's probably why she isn't eating.

Spike has flowers, he is probably mourning Joyce as well, they got along.

Xander, I think Spike actually meant what he said...

Dawn, it's OK to not look.

Angel :eek:

Willow and Tara are helping Dawn to cope, that's nice of them :eek:

Looks like Anya's grieving as well...

Xander, you aren't stupid :)

It can't, Tara ??? really ??? o_O

Dawn, don't resurrect your mom :mad:

Buffy, tomorrow is a new day, don't worry about it :)

Buffy, you were shocked, it's understandable.

How did Angel find out the sad news about Joyce in the first place ??? o_O

Glory is the last thing Buffy needs to deal with right now...

He killed one of Glory's minions :eek:

Dawn, if Buffy were to walk in right now, she would be so pissed...

Anya, chickens are not toys :mad:

Anya, the money is not all yours.

Dawn, not a good idea...

Spike :eek:

Glory, stop pulling your gorgeous hair :(

The old man has a point, Dawn shouldn't be doing this.

He's a lizard :eek:

Dawn, you don't want to do this...

Dawn=Bitty Buffy ??? o_O

I like how Spike is protective of Dawn :)

Willow, that's sweet :)

Willow, don't underestimate Dawnie...

Dawn, you got busted...

Dawn, death is a big chore, on the surviving members of the family that is.

Poor Buffy :(

Dawn, good job for reversing the spell :D

Next time: The Buffybot.
 

Fuffy Baith

2017 (and 2016) Cutest BB member
Joined
Mar 14, 2014
Messages
3,807
Likes
2,931
Age
30
Location
CA
Sineya
#20
How did Angel find out the sad news about Joyce in the first place ??? o_O
Yea I always wondered this. Especially given where Angel is on his own show. I'm assuming Willow called him, thinking it would help Buffy. Since she's the one that came to LA to tell him about Buffy dying.