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Discussion of 5.17 "Forever" - Aired 4/17/01 (WB-US)

Mylie

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I don't know but I always thought that the call Giles respond to in the episode is from Angel and that's why Giles looks so uncomfortable to talk in front of Buffy and leaves the room.

So perhaps Giles called him/left him a message and Angel called him back?
 

GraceK

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This episode always gives me the tears . When I first watched, back in the days of old, lol, I hated Dawn. I thought her cutting school and being all angry and emo at Buffy really made me mad. Age however has given me more sympathy. I love how she is the strong one at the end and rips up the picture. Dawn is actually amazing once you get past the obnoxious. I kind of love her .

I love Giles mourning Joyce in his own way at his house, listening to that record. It's touching.

And of course, I LOVE LOVE LOVE the Bangel in the episode. I love how even though so much crap is happening in Angels unlife he still came to be there for Buffy. I don't care what the haters say, these two will love each other forever and it is a honest, true love between two heros and equals. :) best part of the episode for me.

All in all, it's pretty touching. Rip Joyce.

Also, even my Bangel heart LOVES Spike in this. Say what you will, he is definitely a scene stealing charmer :)
 
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Mr Trick
Mr Trick
A beautiful post! Even as more of a Spuffy fan I can't argue with a word.

PaulParmar1

Spuffy Forever
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Sineya
This one was cute
RIP Joyce. The funeral scene was so powerful honestly.
I hated Xander! He's just awful & how he treated Spike trying to give flowers to Joyce.
I understand Dawn wanting to bring Joyce back to life. I understand Tara and Willow's side too tho because using magic to change the course of life & death is always problematic.
Ben stabbing the minion was great!
Anya lol "I am unthreatened proceed" .
Spike is soooo amazing!
I don't mind the Bangel this episode even tho I'm fully invested in Spuffy.
 

Mr Trick

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A really emotionally, and powerfully conclusion to an excellent two parter. The scene with Buffy and Dawn at the end sinks me! Its probably the turning point for their relationship.

I'd forgotten that this was when we first saw Doc. He is truly creepy. Great performance from Joel Grey.

Think also this is the first major sign of Willow starting to get a little too seduced by magic.
 

katmobile

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I agree that that last scene where they (buffy and dawn) switched roles and buffy wanted to bring her mom back, the knock on the door and her hopeful "mommy??" and dawn's realization that it was wrong to bring her back.... was soooo touching.

Also i want to mention that for a soulless demon (spike) he makes a damn selfless and amazingly caring "older brother" to dawn. He risks his life to help her bring her mom back, even though he knows it's not right - just because he knows it's what she wants - it's the comfort she's seeking.
It's kind but it's wrong an example of his connection to people and empathy but also his lack of understanding of greater and higher morality and how they are connected. It's what Dawn wants but not what she needs.
 

katmobile

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This episode always gives me the tears . When I first watched, back in the days of old, lol, I hated Dawn. I thought her cutting school and being all angry and emo at Buffy really made me mad. Age however has given me more sympathy. I love how she is the strong one at the end and rips up the picture. Dawn is actually amazing once you get past the obnoxious. I kind of love her .

I love Giles mourning Joyce in his own way at his house, listening to that record. It's touching.

And of course, I LOVE LOVE LOVE the Bangel in the episode. I love how even though so much crap is happening in Angels unlife he still came to be there for Buffy. I don't care what the haters say, these two will love each other forever and it is a honest, true love between two heros and equals. :) best part of the episode for me.

All in all, it's pretty touching. Rip Joyce.

Also, even my Bangel heart LOVES Spike in this. Say what you will, he is definitely a scene stealing charmer :)
I don't disagree with the idea that Bangel are linked forever on a deep spiritual level and they will love each other forever but I think there's the part that Buffy tells Angel he has to go because she's really needy. It's their tragedy they can't ever fully be together without it destroying what makes him heroic and they need to be heroes separately not together. It's a bit like in the film Hitch. I also think and I know I'll get lynched for this that for them to be together stops them developing it stifles them. They helped develop each other and learn to be heroes together but they need to the rest of the work apart. It makes them great as individuals that they are prepared to do that but it means they CAN'T ever be a couple.
 
Angel6
Angel6
Who says they can’t die together one day though? Maybe Angel carries on and Buffy has a family, maybe he comes back and sits with her on her death bed and watches the sun come up and they both go. That’s pretty romantic.

katmobile

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Ok this is going to get me dogpiled but someone else mentioned it's possible Buffy might be imagining Angel there. On the balance of probalities I think she isn't but it's not impossible.
 
Mr Trick
Mr Trick
I'd say that's unlikely.

spikenbuffy

"Hi honey, I'm home"
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I've always cried at the end scene between Buffy & Dawn when they collapse together on the ground in crying, SMG is really fantastic!!!
Same with the scene when Buffy & Dawn are each of them are in their bedroom silently & the next scene after that Joyce is put under the ground and Dawn is crying in Buffy's shoulder. So emotional!!
I also feel sad for Dawn when in the table of the kitchen, she's talking and tried to connect with Buffy but Buffy doesn't look at her.

I dont like Willow a lot in this episode when she moved the book to Dawn in her bedroom behind Tara's back.

And Spike is also sweet when he talks about Joyce.
 
Angel6
Angel6
It’s so shocking to me that a user with your username would totally overlook the Bangel scene :P

Oromous

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Sineya
Sigh. This episode. As Xander would say, "And the fun just keeps on leaving." I knew that Joyce's death wouldn't so quickly become a thing of the past, but dang... I think I need a happy episode soon. Another Dawn/Buffy meltdown and I might start crying alongside them too (again).

It makes so much sense that Angel would be the one to come console the Buffster during her darkest hour, and yet it's heartwarming just to see him be there for Buffy at all, reassuring the audience once again that (prior to Spuffy), Angel, not Riley, was always the one for her.

I think I replayed the "Close Your Eyes" kiss in this episode at least five times, wanting it to last forever... hah! (pun definitely intended!) But seriously, knowing that Spuffy's coming soon, I just wanted to cherish this moment while it lasts.

Oh no, Willow... what did you do?! 😆 Dawn should've really watched Pet Sematary. Resurrection using spells... Shades of Dark Willow S6 are dropping... I love how they set these things up before time.

That Ghora demon is a joke. Looks like it's placed on a rotating platform and operated with a remote. Can't blame them though with the limited budget of a '90s TV production.

Overall, another great episode that deals with Buffy's continued grieving. Sometimes it's easy to forget how much pressure the Slayer faces, particularly Buffy. That need to remain strong in the face of darkest storms. I've got a feeling she's gonna need that strength pretty soon...
 
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