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Discussion of 5.18 "Intervention" - Aired 4/24/01 (WB-US)

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
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Which seems kinda off because she's been "Ew, Spike gross" the whole time prior to that kiss. Trying to send out romantic signals all of the sudden just felt odd and jarring.
It kind of makes Buffy look manipulative. Spike did something nice for her because he cares about her so she's going to keep him dangling in case she needs him to do the same kind of thing in the future.
 

Oromous

Socially Awkward
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Sineya
It kind of makes Buffy look manipulative. Spike did something nice for her because he cares about her so she's going to keep him dangling in case she needs him to do the same kind of thing in the future.
To be honest, I find it hard to believe that Buffy is either 1) too dense to see that a kiss could be interpreted as romantic signals, or 2) conniving enough to manipulate Spike into doing her bidding with that kiss. It reads to me more like the writers forcefully moving the Spuffy shipping along with an uncharacteristic romantic kiss that doesn't fit Buffy's character. Maybe it's because I don't know how Buffy would manipulate Spike yet in season 6, but season 5 Buffy prior to the kiss felt like she's been trying not to send the wrong signal all along, even in the majority of this episode, so this kiss just doesn't seem like anything else but the writers' self-insert.
 

Btvs fan

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Which seems kinda off because she's been "Ew, Spike gross" the whole time prior to that kiss. Trying to send out romantic signals all of the sudden just felt odd and jarring.
You could put that down to writing. Each writer had there own take on Spuffy, so Buffy's reaction to Spike would change from episode to episode depending on the writer.
 

DeadlyDuo

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To be honest, I find it hard to believe that Buffy is either 1) too dense to see that a kiss could be interpreted as romantic signals, or 2) conniving enough to manipulate Spike into doing her bidding with that kiss. It reads to me more like the writers forcefully moving the Spuffy shipping along with an uncharacteristic romantic kiss that doesn't fit Buffy's character. Maybe it's because I don't know how Buffy would manipulate Spike yet in season 6, but season 5 Buffy prior to the kiss felt like she's been trying not to send the wrong signal all along, even in the majority of this episode, so this kiss just doesn't seem like anything else but the writers' self-insert.
You're probably right. I just think Spuffy was a millstone around Spike's neck. That relationship made both participants miserable (compare how Buffy and Spike used to act in their relationships with Angel and Drusilla respectively), they used to smile and feel good about themselves, Spuffy dragged both characters down and essentially destroyed Spike's sense of self-worth. Something that never bothered him before (being soulless) became an issue (basically because of Buffy) so Spike essentially committed an act of self-harm (getting a soul) all so that he would be considered "acceptable" to Buffy.
 
B
Btvs fan
Neither of the above relationships could be called healthy or happy by any stretch

Btvs fan

Scooby
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It kind of makes Buffy look manipulative. Spike did something nice for her because he cares about her so she's going to keep him dangling in case she needs him to do the same kind of thing in the future.
She wasn't being manipulative, she is genuinely attracted to Spike and gives into it.
 

DeadlyDuo

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Bangel and Sprusilla made Buffy and Spike a lot more happy than Spuffy ever did. Spike was with Dru for over a century whilst Buffy and Angel only broke up because of Angel's curse. If Angelus never happened then Buffy and Angel would still be together.
 
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Btvs fan

Scooby
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Bangel and Sprusilla made Buffy and Spike a lot more happy than Spuffy ever did. Spike was with Dru for over a century whilst Buffy and Angel only broke up because of Angel's curse. If Angelus never happened then Buffy and Angel would still be together.
"When you kiss me I want to die" thats not happy
And Dru dumped Spike twice, not counting all the times she dropped him when Angelus came calling. Its like its said in Darla she simply picked the first idiot that came along
 

DeadlyDuo

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"When you kiss me I want to die" thats not happy
And Dru dumped Spike twice, not counting all the times she dropped him when Angelus came calling. Its like its said in Darla she simply picked the first idiot that came along
Dru didn't drop Spike, even with Angelus on the scene. She was sleeping with BOTH men.
 
B
Btvs fan
Yeah thats called cheating
K
katmobile
Seconding Btvs fan here - however way you slice it.

Faded90

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Bangel and Sprusilla made Buffy and Spike a lot more happy than Spuffy ever did. Spike was with Dru for over a century whilst Buffy and Angel only broke up because of Angel's curse. If Angelus never happened then Buffy and Angel would still be together.
I agree on this. We can debate Bangel and Spuffy at lengths and talk about the complexities of both but I do think ultimately my biggest issue with Spuffy is that it makes Buffy miserable, she never looks remotely happy or like she even has the potential to be happy. I’m not a particularly big Spike fan so I do tend to look mostly at Buffy’s perspective and I’ve just never been keen on romanticising a relationship that essentially makes both participants miserable. Buffy particularly in both Spuffy seasons( 6 and 7) has to be stripped away from her friends and Dawn to make it even slightly believable that Spike would be her closest confidant

sorry I went off topic a bit there 😂 with regards to the kiss in this scene I think it’s very much an impulse move that she doesn’t really think much about at the time. Was it a bad idea? Most likely but I don’t think there’s any kind of conscious manipulation going on.
 

katmobile

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To be honest, I find it hard to believe that Buffy is either 1) too dense to see that a kiss could be interpreted as romantic signals, or 2) conniving enough to manipulate Spike into doing her bidding with that kiss. It reads to me more like the writers forcefully moving the Spuffy shipping along with an uncharacteristic romantic kiss that doesn't fit Buffy's character. Maybe it's because I don't know how Buffy would manipulate Spike yet in season 6, but season 5 Buffy prior to the kiss felt like she's been trying not to send the wrong signal all along, even in the majority of this episode, so this kiss just doesn't seem like anything else but the writers' self-insert.
It could just be she wanted him to know she forgave and was grateful to him. Since she was there to find out what he told Glory - I think she was very surprised at how trashed he really was and not just he told Glory nothing but that he'd done so because he knew what that'd do it and couldn't stand the idea of causing her that much pain - that I think is not what Buffy was expecting from him. You take like it's a calculated act - I think it's a spontaneous one.
 

Oromous

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It could just be she wanted him to know she forgave and was grateful to him. Since she was there to find out what he told Glory - I think she was very surprised at how trashed he really was and not just he told Glory nothing but that he'd done so because he knew what that'd do it and couldn't stand the idea of causing her that much pain - that I think is not what Buffy was expecting from him. You take like it's a calculated act - I think it's a spontaneous one.
In my defense, that was what I was trying to say in my initial post:

I think that's really up for interpretation. I don't personally think that she was saying "you've got a shot," but more like she was thanking him. I agree though it's a bit weird to kiss him on the mouth - on the cheek would've been better. But I see Buffy as a romantic, as in she probably grew up on fairy tales at one point of her childhood, possibly even seeing Angel as his dark and shining prince charming, so I could kinda understand why she would kiss Spike as a showing of affection for that particular moment. I don't think it was really a romantic kiss, but more of an affectionate one out of gratefulness, the same way a betrothed princess might kiss the hero at the end of a story without any romantic associations.
That it was a spontaneous act of gratefulness that came off the wrong way.
 

fool4lovebot

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this is the biggest lie i have ever seen in my life in what way does spike make buffy miserable 😐
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