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Discussion of 7.10 "Bring On The Night" - Aired 12/17/02 (UPN-US)

Buffy Summers

Yataro
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#1
With Spike missing, the gang try to regroup and clear the damage done to the Summers home. Giles arrives and reveals that the First Evil (first encountered in the episode Amends) is trying to destroy the Slayer line by killing all the Potential Slayers. Buffy and Giles search the Christmas tree lot where she last faced the First, and she encounters a creature out of nightmare called a Turok-Han.
Source: TV.com

Discuss this episode here!
 

VisionGirl

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#2
So, supposedly the title comes from the Police's song of the same name (from 1979's Reggatta de Blance). I wish they would've found a way to use the song in the episode:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz1mEMiNPHQ[/ame]
God, makes me miss my Police albums & tapes (yes, you heard that right ;)).

Love, love, love Camden Toy as the Turok Han. He is so awesome, all of our favorite villains (Gentlemen, Gnarl).

This is Joyce's last appearance. :cry3: I think I would've liked it better if Joyce had appeared to Dawn & Buffy as her ghost self, rather than as an apparation of The First. Kind of like a benevolent power from above or TPTB on Buffy's side.

Here's where Willow's spell goes all badass, and she decides not to do magic anymore. I don't like that either. Like I said in Never Leave Me, I think it's lame. Giles tells her that the magic is a part of her, she has to deal with it. She can't keep hiding from it.

Drusilla, squee!!!! Love the Sprusilla interactions here. Although drowning Spike? Have the writers forgotten that vampires don't need to breathe? :confused:

Love:
Spike: You're not Drusilla.

Drusilla: No, I'm really not.

Spike: She was crazier than you.

Kennedy's such a bitch, sigh. Actually I don't hate her as much as some. I almost wish they would've played up the spoiled brat angle even more!

This episode really marks a change in the direction of the season (& to some people, not in a good way): return of Giles, introduction of the Potentials, Willow's neutered power, Buffy facing a seemingly unstoppable foe, and Buffy speeches LOL!

I know a lot of people hate the Buffy speeches, but I did like these parts of it:
"I'm beyond tired. I'm beyond scared. I'm standing on the mouth of hell, and it's going to swallow me whole. And it'll choke on me....Anyone else who wants to run... do it now. Because we just became an army. We just declared war....There's only one thing on this earth more powerful than evil. And that's us."

And if anyone is an NPR/Ira Glass/This American Life fan, here's what Ira Glass has to say about it (because you gotta love when smart people quote Buffy!):
There's this thing that Buffy says in one of the last couple of seasons, where they are up against something, like a force of pure evil, and she says this speech that's sort of a big, long, kind of faux Shakespearean speech. At some point, she says, "In all of this world, there's only one thing that's stronger than evil." Then she pauses and says, "That's us." And I remember I saw it, I had it on the TiVo. I just kept backing it up and watching that speech over, and over and over, just at the cleanness of the construction of the whole speech, which is building and building and building to that moment. It's funny, because when Obama started running for office, one of his big lines actually was: "We are the ones we have been waiting for," which I took as a kind of, I'm sure he wasn't a big Buffy fan, but it always seemed to be a reminder. No, he wasn't quite as eloquent as Buffy in his phrasing of it. And, you know, he's a guy who's known for some decent eloquence, and even he couldn't beat the construction that Joss Whedon had given Buffy for that line.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/webextra/iraglass/transcript.aspx
 
Charmander
Charmander
Hehe, I was reading your comment on Buffy's speech just as soon as she did it in the episode. :D
AnthonyCordova
AnthonyCordova
nice post. And have some Police rep love!
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#3
The last post mentioned Kennedy. This is the first time we see any of the potentials knowing they are potentials, and the first time we learn their names or hear any of them speak. It's true, if you're watching Kennedy at the first moment you see her, you have to hate her right away. She's a bit rude to Buffy. Annabelle seems to be the most likable of the three. Molly seems to want to hide in plain sight.

---------- Post added at 09:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:51 AM ----------

I can't modify an earlier post? I just thought of something. Does it seem odd that The First tortures Spike by dunking his head in water? I guess the feeling of having water in your lungs is uncomfortable, even for a vampire?
 
Professor Walsh
Professor Walsh
Do we *have* to hate Kennedy right away`;-)
F
FetalPig
i think the First's masterplan was to give everyone earache and so was trying to get water in Spike's ears

VisionGirl

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#4
I found that I hated her less this rewatch, mainly because she was willing to fight while the other Potentials were busy whining.
 
Ethan Reigns
Ethan Reigns
Kennedy would win the title of "potential most likely to be a great slayer".

white avenger

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#5
Does it seem odd that The First tortures Spike by dunking his head in water? I guess the feeling of having water in your lungs is uncomfortable, even for a vampire?
This has been noticed and discussed several times here, never with any conclusion that really satisfies everyone. Most likely that scene was put in there for sheer dramatic effect, with the writers either forgetting that Spike can't drown or just ignoring the fact entirely.

Within the context of the story, I always thought that the First Evil had had one of the Bringers put just enough Holy Water or garlic into the container to be an extreme irritant. But that's just me trying to reconcile the facts with the story.
 

Taake

Maybe it was taquitos. Maybe he lived for taquitos
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Black Thorn
#7
^ I read that it was holy water but they didn't get a chance to add the "steam" in afterward, lol.
Well that would certainly make the most sense. Too bad about the steam in that case.
 
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Black Thorn
#8
I noticed the Spike torture scene as well. I didnt really like Kennedy, she just seemed very in your face. I loved how Giles just appeared at Buffy's house and that Dru appeared as The First.
 

PassionBecoming

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#9
-I wonder what the neighbors think about the Summers household always being under repair/construction...
-Xander in the window fixing loop. Heehee.
-Points to Dawn for slapping Andrew!
-Joyce. Love.
-So was she dreaming or was it The First? I hope it was a dream. :)
-Nice to see Dru, too! I always enjoy her delightful insanity.
-Love Anya and Dawn messing with the hostage. Heehee.
-I have love for Buffy's outfit.
-Ah, not enough blood. Now I get the anemic comment.
-Xander and Andrew nerd bonding moment.
-Hmm, Principal Woods in the basement with the shovel.
-Eep! Those locator spells are tricky. That was worse than under the sofa in Hell...
-Good ol' Giles, bringing the fun in with the "slight apocalypse".
-"The Slayer line is eliminated and the Hellmouth has no guardian." Uh, it hasn't had a guardian before Buffy, so...
-Yup, it always falls to Buffy. Sigh.
-I wonder why Spike doesn't try to fight the ubervamp? Is he that weak? He knows he can't win?
-Ah, I've missed Giles. Their arms touched!!! I saw it!!!
-Aaaaannnnnd I still dislike Kennedy. Also, those Potentials have terrible manners for girls who are staying in a house so the Bringers don't turn them into ribbons.
-The First must really not like Christmas.
-I guess the tree lot owners went out of business...
-Ubervamp makes for good fight scenes!!
-Ooo, foot grabbing like in "Welcome to the Hellmouth"
-So, why do other vampires fear the Tura'kan? Does it kill them, too? And if they are the neandrathals of the vampire race (read: vamps have evolved) how are they still around? This would mean they aren't just hellmouth versions of vamps; as it was said, an entire different race.
-"Once you see true evil, you're going to have some serious afterburn." Heh. Buffy is well-versed in that...
-Get bent. Good ol' Spike.
-Jokes in the face of death. It is most definitely necessary, Willow! Haha.
-I feel bad for Willow. She can't use her "superpower" now and she wants to help so badly. Not sure why she feels so awful about the spell earlier, though. She didn't screw it up.
-Oh, Annabell, that was very stupid.
-And watching Buffy fight the ubervamp again makes me wonder how she was able to hold up to Glory (a Hell God) so much better than this guy. Makes. No. Sense. (Which also brings to mind how she couldn't defeat Adam on her own. Grrr.)
-Keep up the fighting spirit, Spike!!
-"We can't pretend that's it's not the end, because it is." Scary to hear Buffy, The Slayer, who has fought how many apocalypses, died twice, kept the group together, say that. Especially looking more beat up than we've ever seen her.
-The start of Buffy's awesome Season 7 speeches. :D

---------- Post added at 04:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:04 PM ----------

Lots of people above mentioned Spike's water torture scene and I was puzzled about that as well until The First as Dru says "That's why our kind make such fun dollies. Hard to kill." And then Spike coughs up a bunch of water. I think it's just uncomfortable getting water stuffed in your head. It was meant to be a bit of an irritant, not a major kill move.
 
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#10
Willow's face when Kennedy tells her not to hog the covers. Hehe. :D
The Potential's English accents were horrible.
I love how she tries to Google the problem. That's probably what I'd do. Also how could Principle Wood see what she was typing from all the way over there?!
Always good to see Drusilla and her craziness. I thought Glory's torture of Spike seemed much worse, though.
 

FuzzyHandcuffs

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#12
Giles looks so sexy without his glasses on.

So that's Kennedy. Hm. For some reason I thought she'd be... Willow's age! She's a freaking child!

Also Xander's reference to one of the funniest Buffy episodes ever... the mummy hand loop. I love it!

Uber Vampy coming out of no where in front of Buffy's face in the cave under the tree lot... I jumped. Terrifying. Also, apparently, Uber Vampy doesn't die from being staked.

I missed Giles' wisdom and knowledge.

When in doubt, Google it. Buffy, you modern day girl.

Wood is.... kinda weird in a sexy way. So much better than Synder.

Dru. You crazy person. Love her. The actress is spot on.

Get bent. Spike, you're one of my favorites.
 
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#13
I think this is where S7 started to get disappointing for me. Quite bleak and boring and reminds me more of a lacklustre S1 episode.
 
Fuffy Baith
Fuffy Baith
I agree this is where the season goes downhill (actually the episode before it, imo) until Faith and Caleb show up.

Spanky

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#14
I think this is when the season really started to pick-up. Conversations alluded to the change coming, but with this episode the change in the series was almost palpable; fun and games were over, the series finally touched the darkness that it danced around for so long. Part of my affinity for this episode I am sure is related to the fact it is a preamble to what I consider one of the show's finest episodes.
 
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Black Thorn
#15
This has been noticed and discussed several times here, never with any conclusion that really satisfies everyone. Most likely that scene was put in there for sheer dramatic effect, with the writers either forgetting that Spike can't drown or just ignoring the fact entirely.

Within the context of the story, I always thought that the First Evil had had one of the Bringers put just enough Holy Water or garlic into the container to be an extreme irritant. But that's just me trying to reconcile the facts with the story.
Spike eats hot wings - I really don't think that garlic is a problem. :D
 

white avenger

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#16
Spike eats hot wings - I really don't think that garlic is a problem. :D
All hot wings recipes don't contain garlic. Anyhow, it was only an attempt to explain away either a writer's screw up, or editing out of an explanation that actually was provided, but had to be cut fir the sake of time. But, for the sake of argument, let's say that there actually was garlic in the water (for that matter, it might not have even been water, but that's an entirely different theory) Eating or swallowing garlic might not bother a vampire in any way. Remember, garlic garlands are generally used to repel vampires (I think that they've used it several times on the show) Obviously, the vampire isn't going to eat the stuff before attacking his intended victim. The only logical answer would be that there is something in the scent of garlic that is irritating to vampires, which would mean that it is an irritant to the lungs and/or nasal passages.

"But a vampire doesn't have to breathe," you say. A vampire doesn't require oxygen to survive, but that doesn't mean that he would never breathe. Breathing is an involuntary reflex. You can hold your breath for a few minutes, at most, then your body overrides your will power, and you resume breathing. If we assume that vampires retain that reflex, then holding Spike's head under water until he is forced to inhale garlic water could be anything from extremely irritating to excruciatingly painful, depending on the garlic concentration and the amount entering his lungs.

Actually, though, I think that someone earlier in this thread said that it was supposed to be holy water, but they just left out the special effects that would indicate Spike being burned. Even if that were the case, however, Spike's skin wasn't burned, and he was clearly shown coughing up the water, so that supports the involuntary breathing reflex, since that would be the only way that he would have water in his throat or lungs.
 

Spanky

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#17
But I think Spike was still susceptible to drowning and normal human conditions at that point because he did not have a soul... case in point. Spike had in numerous occasions gotten drunk (or at least buzzed) and Spike was shown as eating food. Angel was shown doing neither of these things.

Then once Spike got his boon, suddenly food was no longer important, as he was never shown to be eating and alcohol had no effect on 'vampires' as per their discussion flying back on the plane.

So I posit by looking at episodes, by what they portrayed that soulless vampires were more prone to human proclivities (partaking of the food and/or hooch) and susceptibilities (drowning, getting drunk) than that of the souled vampire. However, the souled vampire, no matter how caring and compassionate they may seem are cruel and full of avarice. Angel was going to let Buffy die simply as a means to save his 'air.' We were shown on numerous occasions that vampires did in fact have breath, yet when Angel could have saved Buffy's live by giving her some breath he miserly choose to keep it to himself and let her die.

So souled vampires could be argued to be worse and more un-like humans (they will willing let someone die rather than preforming CPR, they cant eat or drink) than the straight up demon vampire, who can eat, drink, get drunk and drown, and undoubtedly breath life back into a drowning victim.
 
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Sineya
#18
And the annoying Potentials arrived... Buffy gets home, and instead of having Xander, Willow or Dawn, we have a "British invasion" - and Kennedy.

Kennedy was really a brat at the door, looking at Buffy and saying "this is a Slayer? " - bad Kennedy. But then, she showed to be the only one to be able to answer her calling, and be in the fight. And she didn't waste time: "better not hog the covers"! I love Willow's wide eyes! :) I like Kennedy.

And Annabelle ran and got herself killed - silly girl.

Buffy and Dawn cross path with Wood in the basement where a seal had just been dug up, he with a shovel in his hands - and it didn't arise any concern. OK :rolleyes:
A vampire being tortured by drowning. OK :rolleyes:

The First makes its terrifying appearance, using Willow - too much for her to take at this point. Buffy says she "felt" the First the first time it was around, she knows what she is about to face. And she says that "us" is more powerful than evil, and the First knows this because he will plant discord between them later; as "Joyce" said, "evil is a part of us, all of us."

And Giles: good to see him again, although delivering very bad news and the Potentials. And he makes clear that "it falls to you, Buffy. Sorry. I mean, we'll do what we can, but you're the only one who has the strength to protect these girls—and the world—against what's coming." And reassures her saying "you have all my faith." (Really Giles? Has she? :mad:)

Buffy fighting the Turok-han - shocking to see her so beaten up. :(

And Spike... The First Evil: "Choose a side." Spike: Get bent!" That's how we fight the monster inside. We choose.

And coincidence or not, Spike says "you can't pull this puppet's strings anymore" and from then on he is not triggered *by the First* anymore, although the trigger is still functional.
 
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Give Us A Kiss

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#19
They are always cleaning and replacing things, can't they catch a break ??? :(

How does Andrew hold his head upright like that when he is sleeping ?? I want to know how to do it.

The first evil is creepy and lame...

Andrew has a point, his name is lame too...

Dawn, what have you been watching ??? o_O

Dawn, she's not "sick" anymore...

Wood knows way more than he's letting on...

How many chins does Willow have ??? o_O

Giles :eek:

Who are all of these girls ??? o_O

Kennedy... :rolleyes:

The first is taking things too far...

This is the beginning of the end...

Buffy, stop being a hypocrite and protect these girls...

Poor Spike :(

Andrew, I've never really seen shiny hair but I've seen shiny heads...

The potentials must be starving...

Giles has gone grayer since the end of season 6, but he's still cute :)

It's morning :eek:

Buffy, please sleep, you are exhausted...

Buffy, this will take forever...

Evil movies :D

Wood, they are just movies :rolleyes:

Spike, don't fall for it...

I thought that Angel was "Daddy", not Spike...

Buffy fell asleep on the job, again...

Willow is right, Buffy needs a lot of help...

The potentials have a point, they are nothing but sitting ducks if they don't have a way to protect themselves...

Spit helps too, does it ??? o_O

Buffy's dead, but she will probably come back to life soon...

See ??? She's back from the dead.

Poor Buffy :(

Next time: More about this shitty apocalypse...
 
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#20
Well if you don't love Buffy at the end of this episode, there's something wrong with you because that speech was amazing.

This episode is heavy. Amongst other things it's about the fight between good and evil, which side are you on, choices and do we actually have any, religion/god, and everything inbetween :)

Buffy is visited by The First as Joyce, telling her she needs to rest, that she cannot win this fight. It feels like she is being tempted. Later Joyce talks more about the nature of evil, that it is always here, it's in us all and is natural. (Giles even calls it pure) Buffy can't stop nature, therefore Evil is imposssible to defeat. It's a strange scene, Buffy is in the school bathroom (just after Dru talks about Spike not learning his lessons in school) but Joyce appears and they are in the bathroom at Revello, then she awakes at her office desk. Robin Wood also talks about the nature of evil, saying that once you have seen true evil you cannot ever unsee it.

The First as Dru is torturing Spike, telling him he has to choose a side. She calls him 'daddy' at least twice, but he is not Dru's daddy. Names seem to be important in S7, he has been William to Anya, now Daddy to Dru.

They have another odd conversation later (hello existentialism), when Dru says Spike is only alive becasue she wishes it (god), Spike refutes this saying he's not longer a puppet. Dru then asks why he thinks he has a choice and why he thinks he'll ever be any good in this world and he replies 'She does. Because she believes in me'.

We meet the Potentials, or at least 3 of them. We learn there are only a handful of potentials left. The first is planning to destroy the whole slayer line. It is the source of all evil. If it destroys the slayer line, the balance will be destroyed. Giles is talking about the ultimate fight between good and evil. These scenes are very bright, the windows are uncovered, Buffy's face is almost luminous, she's presented as the light, the good. It's also bright sunlight that stops the Turok Han.

Kennedy questions why they are at the Hellmouth and why aren' they running away. She is also the one who believes that you should help yourself and not put your faith in a higher power(Buffy) while Annabelle puts the alternative view, that we should put our faith in that higher power and let it instruct them. 'With Buffy we are as safe as houses', while Kennedy points out the terrible state of the actual house they are in. Annabelle doesn't have the strength of her 'religious' beliefs and runs away. She may be the only one wearing a cross, which we later see discareded once she has been killed. It feels like the show is being anti-religious, while also postitioning Buffy as some sort of god-like leader ?? When Xander lifts the debris from Buffy after her fight with the Turok Han he says 'Oh God Almighty' . . . :)

Andrew talks to Xander about following Buffy, that she is their leader. Andrew may be the embodiment of Joyce's 'evil is within us', he is 'evil' (he talks about himself as a supervillain) and he is in the house.

Willow tries to do a spell and turns evil, attacking Buffy. She's terrified she'll hurt people, and gulty that she can't use her powers. Xander and Andrew are nerd bonding. Giles and Buffy admit they miss each other. There's a lovely one/two between Giles and Anya that I like (being a Giles/Anya shipper)

Really difficult episode to think about. I don't understand it all, and some of it makes no sense, but I do think it's trying to say something important.
 
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