Discussion of 7.12 "Potential" - Aired 1/21/03 (UPN-US)

[DeadlyDuo]

I've always found the Harmony/Spike sex scene in the Harsh Light of Day to be more erotic than the Spuffy sex scenes. Whether that is just a case of "less is more" who knows but it would be interesting to find out how the sex scenes in Buffy rank. The Riley/Buffy sex scene in Where the Wild Things are seems to be quite hated and that's almost a full on scene.

I can see Spike being quite touchy feely in his relationships. This could be a vampire thing as he and Dru were often quite touchy feely with each other.

I don't blame Spike for not liking being treated as less than a person. It's one of the main reasons he got on with Joyce so well because she treated him as a person rather than a "thing". He even complains to Anya about that when they are drowning their sorrows together.

 

[Priceless]

They touch with their eyes. I was reading a book on touch (which was neither as boring or as rude as it sounds) and it talked about "touching with the eyes". There's a part I've only just noticed - it's in the bar. She says "down all the yak urine shots and pig's blood spritzers you want." and the potentials go "Yuk". She looks at him and smiles. He smiles back and looks away as if to say "I saw what you did there". It's brilliant! Just a fraction of a second but it looks as though they've known each other all their lives. In fact - it's the sort of look Willow and Xander would share.

"During my rewatch"? I've got all the Spike moments as clips so I don't have to watch the whole thing! That's either dedication, perverse or laziness - the jury's out on which. I've justified it as "research".

Just checked it out. They're like parents sharing a joke at their kids expense. It's very cute. They're on the same wavelength, and yes, like they've known each other forever.

I love Spike, but I love the whole show too, and when I watch, I watch the whole episode and the whole show. I very rarely watch a single episode, except when I'm on here watching with someone else. I imagine watching just the Spike scenes is very . . .er .. . satisfying
 

I've always found the Harmony/Spike sex scene in the Harsh Light of Day to be more erotic than the Spuffy sex scenes. Whether that is just a case of "less is more" who knows but it would be interesting to find out how the sex scenes in Buffy rank. The Riley/Buffy sex scene in Where the Wild Things are seems to be quite hated and that's almost a full on scene.

I can see Spike being quite touchy feely in his relationships. This could be a vampire thing as he and Dru were often quite touchy feely with each other.

I don't blame Spike for not liking being treated as less than a person. It's one of the main reasons he got on with Joyce so well because she treated him as a person rather than a "thing". He even complains to Anya about that when they are drowning their sorrows together.

Is that where Spike is crawling up the bed to her? That is very erotic, but I find the Spuffy scenes equally as erotic, and more meaninful because the characters have a more complex relationship.

Think I must be one of the few people who don't mind any sex scene, even the Riley ones. It's an insight into the whole relationship. They show a very cautious, grown up, vanilla couple, the sex seems very workman-like, if that makes sense. That's probably the reason Buffy leaves their bed to go hunt vampires. The balcony scene seems to be one of the the most hated sex scenes. This could be the new poll to find out which is the best sex scene in the show

 

[DeadlyDuo]

Is that where Spike is crawling up the bed to her? That is very erotic,

That's the one. I've noticed two things about that scene that I've never noticed before:

1. Spike crawls up the bed on his knuckles, a bit like how a gorilla walks. Spike is very dominant male in that scene.
2. Spike licks Harmony's neck.

Vampires seem to be very sensory creatures.

Can't believe I forgot to mention the Spike/Dru sex scene during the Boxer Rebellion, they just can't get enough of each other.

 

[TriBel]

I imagine watching just the Spike scenes is very . . .er .. . satisfying

Very. In fact, I'm sure some of them are grainier than they should be. Can you wear a clip out? I've also gone through 2 Series 7s - broke both final discs pausing Touched. I also bought a new lap-top because work wouldn't let me replace the institutional logo with "Is everyone here very stoned?". I can screen save to my...er...heart's desire now. That's either dedication or spite (I'm spending the kids' inheritance).

 

[Priceless]

That's the one. I've noticed two things about that scene that I've never noticed before:

1. Spike crawls up the bed on his knuckles, a bit like how a gorilla walks. Spike is very dominant male in that scene.
2. Spike licks Harmony's neck.

Vampires seem to be very sensory creatures.

Can't believe I forgot to mention the Spike/Dru sex scene during the Boxer Rebellion, they just can't get enough of each other.

He always seems very dominant with Harmony, throwing her around and getting very physical. That's what made it funnier that post-chip he went back to her and she almost staked him, that was some form of pay-back for her.

Vampires are sensory creatures, and very oral, as the mouth is also their weapon of choice (that sounds wrong )

 

[TriBel]

Vampires seem to be very sensory creatures.

True - but some have more problem pulling than others. I think it's the hair.

 

[Priceless]

Very. In fact, I'm sure some of them are grainier than they should be. Can you wear a clip out? I've also gone through 2 Series 7s - broke both final discs pausing Touched. I also bought a new lap-top because work wouldn't let me replace the institutional logo with "Is everyone here very stoned?". I can screen save to my...er...heart's desire now. That's either dedication or spite (I'm spending the kids' inheritance).

This screen saving thing sounds like the way to go, but then I'd never get off the computer Let the kids earn their own money, you've got a Spike addiction to support

 

[DeadlyDuo]

He always seems very dominant with Harmony, throwing her around and getting very physical. That's what made it funnier that post-chip he went back to her and she almost staked him, that was some form of pay-back for her.

Harmony is quite an underrated character. She gets a lot of hate, yet she actually made something of herself after leaving Sunnydale.

Vampires are sensory creatures, and very oral, as the mouth is also their weapon of choice (that sounds wrong )

And yet is probably quite accurate
 

This screen saving thing sounds like the way to go, but then I'd never get off the computer Let the kids earn their own money, you've got a Spike addiction to support

It's surprising how dark the Angel show actually is picture quality wise. Normally I screencap from the DVD then use word to brighten the picture up but keeping it realistic.

 

[TriBel]

Vampires are sensory creatures, and very oral, as the mouth is also their weapon of choice (that sounds wrong

Sounds fine to me! I remember studying Dracula as a student and having a whispered debates about whether we had to use the Latin terms for "orality" or whether the vernacular was okay. I used the vernacular - me and foreign words don't get on! (PS - I think it's page 7 - Penguin Edition).
 

She gets a lot of hate, yet she actually made something of herself after leaving Sunnydale

As irritating as hell but strangely likeable. I wanted to slap Angel and Spike for the way they treated her.

 

[Priceless]

I always enjoy this episode. It's interesting that Buffy began as a girl who was chosen and she just wanted to be a normal girl. By Potential we have Dawn, a normal girl wanting to be chosen, even though she knows exactly what that means. Xander, Anya and Willow discuss at length what it means to be a potential slayer, even thought their predicted 'short short life' hasn't been true for Buffy.

I like that the show is saying that even if you aren't chosen, and that others have inherant abilities that you do not have, you can still be special in different ways, as Xander says quite beautifully to Dawn 'you're not special, you're extraordinary'.

There are some lovely Spuffy moments that also show potential, as Spike joins Buffy in training the potentials. They are working together, Spike is not subordinate to her. He is strong enough to stop Buffy touching him. It's Buffy that looks so unsure and appears flustered about about their relationship and the physical contact between them. There is an equality in their relationship we've not seen before.

Buffy's emotional uncertainty is further shown is her conversation with Amanda. She asserts that the relationship is definitely over, but begins her sepech with with 'It depends' and ends with 'So maybe'. I don't think she's as confused as she seems, I think she's well aware of how she feels, and is actually confused more about Spike and his feelings.

This is the second episode that Andrew raises the issue of Spike. In Showtime he says 'Spike is a worse killer than me by way more', to which Dawn replies
'Spike was being controlled by The First. And he has a soul now. Besides, we need his help' and here Andrew says 'It's not fair. Spike just killed people, and he gets to go' and Buffy defends him with 'Spike didn't have free will and you did'. I think the defence of Spike is to show how accepted he is by Buffy and how a relationship would be 'acceptable' to Dawn (and by extension the other scoobies)

There are some fun moments in this episode that I like; Buffy on the phone
'Xander, I know. I'm sorry—If you're gonna take a shower at my house, lock the door. Of course they're curious'. Vi's delivery of 'It's a demon bar. It's like a gay bar, only with demons' always makes me smile.

 

[TriBel]

Vi's delivery of 'It's a demon bar. It's like a gay bar, only with demons' always makes me smile.

I like Vi! That always seems like a rather contentious juxtaposition to me. "Gay bar" and "Demons" in the same sentence. Do you think there's a point being made? Not that the writers think Gay people are Demons but that we demonize gay people? Particularly because of the parallels being drawn between Andrew and Spike? A sort of knowing irony? And why did Spike's eyebrow raise when Rona questioned him? Was it because he's prepared to take c*** (I don't normally talk in asterisks - I'm getting my bad language in one letter at a time) from Buffy but not the potentials? Sigh - you can tell this is one of my "personal clips" can't you? I think this episode is so erotic...and I think I need to get out more. Also - Yak urine is probably no worse for you than JD and coke.

 

[Priceless]

I like Vi! That always seems like a rather contentious juxtaposition to me. "Gay bar" and "Demons" in the same sentence. Do you think there's a point being made? Not that the writers think Gay people are Demons but that we demonize gay people? Particularly because of the parallels being drawn between Andrew and Spike? A sort of knowing irony? And why did Spike's eyebrow raise when Rona questioned him? Was it because he's prepared to take c*** (I don't normally talk in asterisks - I'm getting my bad language in one letter at a time) from Buffy but not the potentials? Sigh - you can tell this is one of my "personal clips" can't you? I think this episode is so erotic...and I think I need to get out more. Also - Yak urine is probably no worse for you than JD and coke.

Yes I think the writers are using demon with gay ironically, and I think it works on that level, we are laughing at Vi for equating the two. Both Spike and Buffy seem very comfortable there, they are both greeted by name by demons who frequent the bar, so I think we're meant to see it as a 'good' place

 

[TriBel]

Yes I think the writers are using demon with gay ironically, and I think it works on that level, we are laughing at Vi for equating the two. Both Spike and Buffy seem very comfortable there, they are both greeted by name by demons who frequent the bar, so I think we're meant to see it as a 'good' place

That's good - it means I can legitimately make a claim that Spike is other and represents minorities (though, TBH, the fight my lads had before Pride over GHDs and I'm happy to go along with the intimation they're demons - Gay genes from my side of the family - demonic genes from their dad's. Sorted!).

 

[TriBel]

There are some lovely Spuffy moments that also show potential, as Spike joins Buffy in training the potentials. They are working together, Spike is not subordinate to her. He is strong enough to stop Buffy touching him. It's Buffy that looks so unsure and appears flustered about about their relationship and the physical contact between them. There is an equality in their relationship we've not seen before.

Significantly, the pain responsible for the moment emanates from a couple of ribs not “quite set”. This sends us back to The Body, when Buffy “might have cracked a rib” (don't know why I'm bothering to write this bloody article - I'll have published half of it on here!) That aside, I think this marks a turning point - the mention of ribs when you have a character called Eve who's also the first evil. In the body Buffy jumps back - she thinks she's cracked a rib giving Joyce CPR. The phone operator tells her it's not important. I think it was - that she somehow felt she'd "hurt Joyce" (other things point to it). I think that was possibly one of the significant parts of her depression. When she beats on Spike in Dead Things she says something like "that's all she was to you - a body". I think what we're seeing here is the lifting of that repression - in fact I'm fairly sure. For reasons I haven't yet fathomed, Joyce was a barrier between them - not Joyce herself but what Joyce's death meant - that's why all the "evil dead thing" c**p I think - it's anger, fear, hurt at Joyce - not him. I think the ribs definitely mark a new beginning.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

I like Vi! That always seems like a rather contentious juxtaposition to me. "Gay bar" and "Demons" in the same sentence. Do you think there's a point being made? Not that the writers think Gay people are Demons but that we demonize gay people? Particularly because of the parallels being drawn between Andrew and Spike? A sort of knowing irony? And why did Spike's eyebrow raise when Rona questioned him? Was it because he's prepared to take c*** (I don't normally talk in asterisks - I'm getting my bad language in one letter at a time) from Buffy but not the potentials? Sigh - you can tell this is one of my "personal clips" can't you? I think this episode is so erotic...and I think I need to get out more. Also - Yak urine is probably no worse for you than JD and coke.

This harks back to when Buffy first told Joyce she was the slayer and her reaction was, "Have you tried not being the slayer?" We have a recent thread on here equating the language used to that of a child "coming out" to her parents.

 

[TriBel]

This harks back to when Buffy first told Joyce she was the slayer and her reaction was, "Have you tried not being the slayer?" We have a recent thread on here equating the language used to that of a child "coming out" to her parents.

Ta - that makes sense! My lads never came out as such so deprived me of the moment. Just turned up with boyfriends presuming I'd guessed! Also - I tried to get back to another post you made but for some reason I can't. Yes - it was Mountain Dew - did I type morning?

 

[emnemnemnem]

Here we have Buffy training the Potential Slayers and Willow performing a spell to find the Potential in Sunnydale.

In contrast to the attitude of the Potentials in the previous episode, they were pretty enthusiastic to fight in this episode. And they successfully defeated their first vamp so yay progress! What kind of irks me though is their open disrespect of Buffy (when they openly allude to her and Spike in front of them - awkward!), who is only trying to help them.

So in this ep, we are shown a lot of Dawn's character. Willow's spell hit her, so she, Xander, Anya, and Dawn assume that she's the Potential. It's a lot for Dawn to take in, so she goes up to her room for some alone time, then escaping out the window. She soon finds an opportunity to test out her potential of being a Slayer when Amanda talks to her about encountering a vampire at the school. Dawn offers to help Amanda in order to prove to herself that she really does have the potential to be a Slayer in the future. They go to the school, fight the vamp, and then the First's people come to take... not Dawn, but Amanda. What I loved about this whole scenario though was when Dawn immediately handed the wooden pole over to Amanda, telling her that Amanda was the special one, when she realized that the First was out to get Amanda rather than her. I feel like it really provides insight into the growth Dawn has gone through throughout the seasons. Instead of being jealous of Amanda and concealing from her the truth, Dawn hands the power she thought she wielded only seconds before over to Amanda without a second thought. Later in the episode, when Dawn wistfully watches the Potentials talk about killing their first vampire, it's clear that she wishes she was a part of them, which makes her previous action the even more honorable. And I LOVE LOVE LOVE the ending of the episode, when Xander gives her the recognition she deserves (after Buffy and others leave her without a thought). Agh it made me love Xander even more. His speech was so touching, giving us insight into the perspective of the "normal" people (or should I say extraordinary??? ) for once.