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Discussion of 7.13 "The Killer In Me" - Aired 2/04/03 (UPN-US)
- Thread starter Buffy Summers
- Start date
This was an OK episode. I liked the Willow/Warren thing, both actors' performances were good. I thought Willow's admission that she felt guilty letting go of Tara was so heartrending. Of course I cried: she's crying. It happens every time. 
Giles is classic: "Now wait a minute. You thought... You think I'm evil if I bring a group of girls on a camping trip and don't touch them?"
Love Anya-
Anya: Which means we're already too late. And we're heading out to the middle of nowhere.
Dawn: With no Slayer, no powerful witch...
Anya: Just a teenager, a powerless former demon and two big geeks.
I totally cracked up at the Initiative guy saying "We're to provide you with everything you need to help ass-face here. Those were his exact words". Speaking of Riley of course. Sigh, Riley. Everyone disses him, but he still has faith in Buffy, even where Spike is concerned.
Wikipedia says (so you know it must be true!):
I always wondered about the Smashing Pumpkins thing, because that song always plays in my head when I think about this episode.
Giles is classic: "Now wait a minute. You thought... You think I'm evil if I bring a group of girls on a camping trip and don't touch them?"
Love Anya-
Anya: Which means we're already too late. And we're heading out to the middle of nowhere.
Dawn: With no Slayer, no powerful witch...
Anya: Just a teenager, a powerless former demon and two big geeks.
I totally cracked up at the Initiative guy saying "We're to provide you with everything you need to help ass-face here. Those were his exact words". Speaking of Riley of course. Sigh, Riley. Everyone disses him, but he still has faith in Buffy, even where Spike is concerned.
Wikipedia says (so you know it must be true!):
I always wondered about the Smashing Pumpkins thing, because that song always plays in my head when I think about this episode.
I'm unsure about how I feel on this episode. On the one hand: WILLOW! And her bit about Tara was beautiful. I think the episode created a lot of depth for Willow's pain and let us know that she hasn't forgotten her.
On the other hand, an abomination has been born in the form of Killow. I despise Kennedy and this episode brings it about. It comes down to Willow-love vs. Kennedy-hate. This ep thus gets a thumbs-up I suppose. Maybe.
On the other hand, an abomination has been born in the form of Killow. I despise Kennedy and this episode brings it about.
It comes down to Willow-love vs. Kennedy-hate. This ep thus gets a thumbs-up I suppose. Maybe.
W
WiccanOwl
[No message]
I agree with the previous post! I am torn about this episode, I love Willow and it has a lot of her in it but it also has Kennedy.. and Killow... I know I'm totally bias because I´m such a die hard Tillow shipper, but Kennedy is just wrong for Willow. And it was too soon for Willow to be moving on, was it really so that the creators needed to place Willow in a relationship with another girl so that fans wouldn't think that she would go to back men and not be gay anymore?
I wouldn't of assumed that, It would had been enough for me with Willow asking about Fred in Orpheus that she would eventually be moving on, and with a woman. But again, Killow happened too soon IMO.
I do also like this episode because it has a lot funny Spike/Buffy scenes. the 'who you gonna call' scene gets me every time
I wouldn't of assumed that, It would had been enough for me with Willow asking about Fred in Orpheus that she would eventually be moving on, and with a woman. But again, Killow happened too soon IMO.
I do also like this episode because it has a lot funny Spike/Buffy scenes. the 'who you gonna call' scene gets me every time
PassionBecoming
[No message]
See, I don't hate Kennedy, so I'm not as anti-Killow as some (she's the only Potential willing to fight at first, definitely not a wimp). But I'm definitely more pro-Tillow, and I just don't think Kennedy & Willow are a good match. They just don't fit. To me it seems like it's one of those temporary things, they got together because of the situation & maybe they both needed somebody. But I don't really like it that they're still together in season 8. Now Kennedy herself kinda grows on me in season 8, esp her interactions with Satsu, but I still just don't really like her with Willow.
---------- Post added at 02:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:55 AM ----------
Oh, I forgot to say that I think the whole Willow/Warren/Kennedy plot reminds me a lot of IOHEFY, but I think that the latter is better done.
---------- Post added at 02:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:55 AM ----------
Oh, I forgot to say that I think the whole Willow/Warren/Kennedy plot reminds me a lot of IOHEFY, but I think that the latter is better done.
Killow? I thought the abbreviation was "Kenlow." But right now I don't want to get into that ...
I have a question. At about 31 minutes into the episode, Buffy and Spike are fighting a demon in the underground space formerly occupied by the Initiative. They find one demon still alive. The demon fights Buffy but breaks off its attack on her when Spike collapses (his chip misfiring, remember). Then it drags Spike away.
Why does the demon leave Buffy, who is still conscious and fighting back? My best guess is that the demon is hungry and drags Spike away intending to eat him. But Buffy is still a threat, and in fact she pursues the demon and kills it. It doesn't make sense to me. Did I miss something?
I have a question. At about 31 minutes into the episode, Buffy and Spike are fighting a demon in the underground space formerly occupied by the Initiative. They find one demon still alive. The demon fights Buffy but breaks off its attack on her when Spike collapses (his chip misfiring, remember). Then it drags Spike away.
Why does the demon leave Buffy, who is still conscious and fighting back? My best guess is that the demon is hungry and drags Spike away intending to eat him. But Buffy is still a threat, and in fact she pursues the demon and kills it. It doesn't make sense to me. Did I miss something?
Am I the only person that loves this episode?
I find it odd that others don't. We really get more of an insight into Willow's guilt over Warren and she's still hurting so badly over Tara. Her breakdown at the end is heartbreaking.
This episode, though, always reminds me of how much I "love to hate" Warren even when I absolutely can't stand him in S6. I really loathe him in that season, but it was nice to see him "back" anyway in this one, although he might've been more tolerable simply because it was actually Willow
IMO, this is a highly entertaining episode and I can look past the "Killowness" of it to enjoy it.
I find it odd that others don't. We really get more of an insight into Willow's guilt over Warren and she's still hurting so badly over Tara. Her breakdown at the end is heartbreaking.
This episode, though, always reminds me of how much I "love to hate" Warren even when I absolutely can't stand him in S6. I really loathe him in that season, but it was nice to see him "back" anyway in this one, although he might've been more tolerable simply because it was actually Willow
IMO, this is a highly entertaining episode and I can look past the "Killowness" of it to enjoy it.
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Am I the only person that loves this episode?
I find it odd that others don't. We really get more of an insight into Willow's guilt over Warren and she's still hurting so badly over Tara. Her breakdown at the end is heartbreaking.
This episode, though, always reminds me of how much I "love to hate" Warren even when I absolutely can't stand him in S6. I really loathe him in that season, but it was nice to see him "back" anyway in this one, although he might've been more tolerable simply because it was actually Willow
IMO, this is a highly entertaining episode and I can look past the "Killowness" of it to enjoy it.
I find it odd that others don't. We really get more of an insight into Willow's guilt over Warren and she's still hurting so badly over Tara. Her breakdown at the end is heartbreaking.
This episode, though, always reminds me of how much I "love to hate" Warren even when I absolutely can't stand him in S6. I really loathe him in that season, but it was nice to see him "back" anyway in this one, although he might've been more tolerable simply because it was actually Willow
IMO, this is a highly entertaining episode and I can look past the "Killowness" of it to enjoy it.
I loved the Amy twist, you think she's all good and everything and then wham, she's the one that's cursed Willow. I like Amy's character in that she's only appeared in a few episodes but her character has changed so much. Who would have thought it season 1 she'd be as bad as she is in season 7.
I love the Giles desert scene. The fact that he gets rugby tackled by everyone is hillarious. I enjoyed the fact that the writers really hadnt had any of the Scoobies hug or touch Giles. I remember the episode he comes back were Buffy goes to hug him but the Potential's walk in and she doesnt.
The Willow/Warren scenes were amazing! I loved them the most!
I love the Giles desert scene. The fact that he gets rugby tackled by everyone is hillarious. I enjoyed the fact that the writers really hadnt had any of the Scoobies hug or touch Giles. I remember the episode he comes back were Buffy goes to hug him but the Potential's walk in and she doesnt.
The Willow/Warren scenes were amazing! I loved them the most!
Charmander
[No message]
Sorry for the double post but I've listened to the commentary by David Solomon and Drew Z Greenberg.
They shot the whole Warren/Willow scenes in full. So it took them twice as long to film everything.
This is Spike still being a bit like a damsel in distress but it shows him making the effort to fight along side Buffy.
This episode was good for Willow because it lets her talk about how she came out and it highlights the fun part of being gay, like going on dates etc. With Kennedy they didnt want her as a replacement for Tara so they made her so different. The scene after they kiss and Willow walks out of the house, Kennedy is the one to follow her. Its because, even though everyone sees Warren, Kennedy can see Willow's soul.
Amy also sees Willow as herself and not just because she was the one to do the spell.
The Giles scene were everyone jumps him in the desert was meant to be the last scene in this episode.
Willow didnt turn in to Warren because she felt guilty for killing him but because for a few moments she forgot about Tara.
They shot the whole Warren/Willow scenes in full. So it took them twice as long to film everything.
This is Spike still being a bit like a damsel in distress but it shows him making the effort to fight along side Buffy.
This episode was good for Willow because it lets her talk about how she came out and it highlights the fun part of being gay, like going on dates etc. With Kennedy they didnt want her as a replacement for Tara so they made her so different. The scene after they kiss and Willow walks out of the house, Kennedy is the one to follow her. Its because, even though everyone sees Warren, Kennedy can see Willow's soul.
Amy also sees Willow as herself and not just because she was the one to do the spell.
The Giles scene were everyone jumps him in the desert was meant to be the last scene in this episode.
Willow didnt turn in to Warren because she felt guilty for killing him but because for a few moments she forgot about Tara.
-Yay for Buffy/Giles moments! And the Hokey Pokey.
-SMG's voice is raspy
-"Lack of pitter patter". Ugh, I cannot even imagine living with that many girls in one house. I would go insane.
-I do feel bad for Spike. Also glad he is taking initiative to keep himself from harming anyone.
-"It's just tea." Love that Buffy knows what's going on there. Haha.
-"Remember when things used to be nice and boring?" "No." Yeah, back in 8th grade? Haha.
-How old is Kennedy in the show? Willow must be around 22, but it seems like their ages are way far apart so I find this creepy. Or maybe they just don't have the chemistry that Willow and Tara did.
-"Or maybe I wasn't meant to last this long. One more thing you and I have in common, love." Meh. :/
-Didn't Willow and Kennedy share a room?
-Warren is back!! This whole scene is just funny with the confusion and the "I'm not The First!" and Andrew coming and Buffy punching and Andrew grabbing boobies then Spike wandering in with debilitating pain, Dawn and Andrew poking at Willow/Warren...
-I don't quite get why Willow wants to try reversing it by herself. Help is always good!
-Ooo, back to The Initiative. Such fond memories. If only Riley were there...
-Gluing things together. Heh.
-The Wicca circle is doing spells?! Craziness!
-Ugh, Amy. Also weird with Amy and Warren in the same room given the stuff in S8...and talk about continuation issues.
-Weren't they supposed to fill The Initiative with cement?? That place must stink so badly. Ick.
-Interesting mix of people for a road trip!
-So, how did that demon soldier guy survive down there?? And why did it take Spike?
-Hahahahahaha. Giles getting tackled. Love it.
-Ass Face. Heh. Oh, I miss Riley. Also, all those soldiers a bit of overkill, yeah?
-Yeah, Amy needs a serious butt kicking. Well yes, everyone still loves Willow. They're her friends. Amy never seemed to want to be part of the gang or anything, so what's up her butt?
-Alyson crying moments. Heart-wrenching. We all have to let go of our ghosts...
-SMG's voice is raspy
-"Lack of pitter patter". Ugh, I cannot even imagine living with that many girls in one house. I would go insane.
-I do feel bad for Spike. Also glad he is taking initiative to keep himself from harming anyone.
-"It's just tea." Love that Buffy knows what's going on there. Haha.
-"Remember when things used to be nice and boring?" "No." Yeah, back in 8th grade? Haha.
-How old is Kennedy in the show? Willow must be around 22, but it seems like their ages are way far apart so I find this creepy. Or maybe they just don't have the chemistry that Willow and Tara did.
-"Or maybe I wasn't meant to last this long. One more thing you and I have in common, love." Meh. :/
-Didn't Willow and Kennedy share a room?
-Warren is back!! This whole scene is just funny with the confusion and the "I'm not The First!" and Andrew coming and Buffy punching and Andrew grabbing boobies then Spike wandering in with debilitating pain, Dawn and Andrew poking at Willow/Warren...
-I don't quite get why Willow wants to try reversing it by herself. Help is always good!
-Ooo, back to The Initiative. Such fond memories. If only Riley were there...
-Gluing things together. Heh.
-The Wicca circle is doing spells?! Craziness!
-Ugh, Amy. Also weird with Amy and Warren in the same room given the stuff in S8...and talk about continuation issues.
-Weren't they supposed to fill The Initiative with cement?? That place must stink so badly. Ick.
-Interesting mix of people for a road trip!
-So, how did that demon soldier guy survive down there?? And why did it take Spike?
-Hahahahahaha. Giles getting tackled. Love it.
-Ass Face. Heh. Oh, I miss Riley. Also, all those soldiers a bit of overkill, yeah?
-Yeah, Amy needs a serious butt kicking. Well yes, everyone still loves Willow. They're her friends. Amy never seemed to want to be part of the gang or anything, so what's up her butt?
-Alyson crying moments. Heart-wrenching.
We all have to let go of our ghosts...
Loved the scene where Andrew touched Willow's boobs and everyone was ignoring Spike rolling on the floor in agony. Very good acting by Warren too! He definitely got all the right Willow mannerisms.
Also seeing them all sneak up on Giles was hilarious. He's so cute.
Repair or remove the chip... very interesting dilemma!
Willow's speech about feeling that she'd lost Tara forever because she'd let go of her by kissing Kennedy was heartbreaking.
I just wish that they hadn't given Willow a new love interest quite so soon. She's a good enough character to work well on her own, and while I don't hate Kennedy, I really don't see why they would fit together at all.
Also seeing them all sneak up on Giles was hilarious. He's so cute.
Repair or remove the chip... very interesting dilemma!
Willow's speech about feeling that she'd lost Tara forever because she'd let go of her by kissing Kennedy was heartbreaking.
I just wish that they hadn't given Willow a new love interest quite so soon. She's a good enough character to work well on her own, and while I don't hate Kennedy, I really don't see why they would fit together at all.
Ok, not gonna lie, I don't like this episode very much. It's a shame because there's stuff in it that could be really good, but the episode is just so cluttered and un-focussed. The Willow/Warren thing is kinda interesting, but the problem is that there are other things going on that are a lot more interesting. The stuff with Spike's chip going wrong is so much more interesting and way more important than what's going on with Willow. And the new development that Giles might have potentially been the First was great, but takes up only 10 minutes of the episode, if that. We could have had a whole episode on that and had Spike's chip be the b-story. But instead, those two things get sidelined and we instead focus on Willow being turned into Warren, which on it's own is alright but in the grand scheme of things it just doesn't seem that important.
I just re-watchd this episode. I like it because the style is different and the acting is good. I mainly dislike how fast Kennedy moved in on Willow when it was CLEAR before she changed that she wasn't over the recent death of her girlfriend... It just always bugged me a bit, because if youR with someone who forgets the past tense and internally freaked out over it, Why would you assume they're fine to push dating on? And she did push...
Another thing, why would Willow even think to go to the campus wiccans? I mean, really.
Another thing, why would Willow even think to go to the campus wiccans? I mean, really.
Great episode. The whole turn into Warren was clever.
The Potentials are gone - at least for a little while: "Give us all a chance for a breather from the constant pitter patter of clomping teenage girly feet." And their talking and whining and their very presence...
Kennedy: bad, bad girl, skipping a most interesting mystical trip with Giles to hit on Wiĺlow... then she was adorable (at the Bronze), then supportive of Willow, and then brave facing Amy. A honest girl, who didn't fear going after who she fancied - I really don't see her pushing Willow into anything.
Willow - yeah, it seems that if you move on, you are forgetting the loved person, you are betraying the person, you are asserting that you don't love the person anymore - and that's not true, much less about Willow and Tara. A very hard bridge that Willow had to cross, but she was lucky she did it with a girl like Kennedy, who helped her breaking the hex.
I liked Amy better this time, all mean and resentful, I've never cared much for the character.
Giles The First...
Buffy, Spike and the chip - it was about time for it to be gone. And Riley has sense of humor: "anything to help assface here." Maybe the chip got damaged because if fired non stop when Spike was killing people (and Spike didn't feel pain because he was brainwashed).
The Potentials are gone - at least for a little while: "Give us all a chance for a breather from the constant pitter patter of clomping teenage girly feet." And their talking and whining and their very presence...
Kennedy: bad, bad girl, skipping a most interesting mystical trip with Giles to hit on Wiĺlow... then she was adorable (at the Bronze), then supportive of Willow, and then brave facing Amy. A honest girl, who didn't fear going after who she fancied - I really don't see her pushing Willow into anything.
Willow - yeah, it seems that if you move on, you are forgetting the loved person, you are betraying the person, you are asserting that you don't love the person anymore - and that's not true, much less about Willow and Tara. A very hard bridge that Willow had to cross, but she was lucky she did it with a girl like Kennedy, who helped her breaking the hex.
I liked Amy better this time, all mean and resentful, I've never cared much for the character.
Giles The First...
Buffy, Spike and the chip - it was about time for it to be gone. And Riley has sense of humor: "anything to help assface here."
Maybe the chip got damaged because if fired non stop when Spike was killing people (and Spike didn't feel pain because he was brainwashed).