Discussion of 7.15 "Get It Done" - Aired 2/18/03 (UPN-US)

[Anyanka Bunny Slayer]

God another Buffy hater and Spike lover
You understood that the smoke was the essence of a demon wright!!! it was the Demon essence that the Shadow men raped the first Slayer with , Buffy did not want extra demon in her body why would she ? especially after season six. The shadow men raped her in that Cave forcing the demon dust to enter Buffy's body against her will.....

Is this another rape thread? Just asking for a friend...

 

[Dora]

Is this another rape thread? Just asking for a friend...

I hope not just answering thrasherpix who claimed Buffy was selfish not to take what the Shadowmen tried to force on her
 

Look beyond the story. This is the episode where the essence of the slayer is defined and to our surprise it is defined as demonic. We do not see Buffy as having a demonic essence before this - she appeared to be just a girl with a unique calling that gave her extra power in exchange for the promise to use it to eliminate vampires, other demons and forces of darkness. So Buffy has been standoffish and distanced from her friends for a number of seasons now and the reason is obvious - she is not fully human anymore. She has a liking for vampires and now we have the same reason - she is part demon herself. She didn't want to be alive at the beginning of Season 6 and we see the same reason - she is charged with the responsibility of destroying demons but she is one herself.

Without this episode, we would have retained the very different idea of what a slayer is as explained in episodes before this. As we head into the decline and fall of Buffy's empire, we now see that she is part demon and not at home with normal human interaction, regardless of how much she may have wanted a normal life.

And a very good reason she turned down the Shadowmans offer , Buffy tells willow I didn't like the consequences , Buffy did not want to become more of a demon, and it would have not mattered in the end anyway if she had had more strength

 

[DeadlyDuo]

What does TTFN mean anyways ???

"Ta Ta for Now" Apparently Chloe was a big fan of Winnie the Pooh. Tigger says that line.

Spike really needed that cigarette...

Spike definitely gets his mojo back in this episode.

And a very good reason she turned down the Shadowmans offer , Buffy tells willow I didn't like the consequences , Buffy did not want to become more of a demon, and it would have not mattered in the end anyway if she had had more strength

The vision of what's in the hellmouth was of more value to Buffy than extra strength.

 

[Dora]

More of a season 7 hater rather than Buffy hater. I hate its drivel and its heavy handed violation of plot and characters.

As for a Spike lover...I think that's the first time I've been called that. I guess my effort to ease up on Spike has paid off if my harsh criticism of his character (especially in regards to Spuffy) beyond when he was gleefully evil in season 2 & 3 is fading from memory.

As for what I understand (taking into account it's piss poor drivel), yes it was the essence of a demon. So is Buffy's entire Slayerhood. For that matter, vampirism is equated with sex and rape, so the darkness in Spike that Buffy wanted him to embrace could be more of "accept rape for strength" or some such if you want to force a metaphor. And accepting a soul was obviously traumatic (and that's not just a season 7 thing, if anything Spike was better able to handle it than Angel), but since it doesn't imply rape I guess you think that trauma doesn't count. Give Buffy a hug when she whines and bitches, and then cheer her on as she metaphorically and literally smacks others around for whining and bitching as well.

And using certain words too freely deprives them of the power they should have. I'll thank you to not try to throw the word "rape" around so glibly. It comes off as more manipulative than informative and creates a suspicion of the word, as well as imply certain toxic things I don't want to derail this thread about.

And I'm not going to fall into the trap of the arbitrary, heavy handed, and often contradictory metaphors the writers of season 7 liked to use. Buffy said to be strong, and she accepted the power before to fight Adam, she sure as hell could to fight the First...or alternately, stop being so harsh on others fighting against their darkness or displaying their own lack of ruthlessness of self to get the job done.

And Buffy didn't goad Spike so he could get her back, she had no idea that was coming. If I want to make sense of a senseless season, then I see Buffy as feeling like she's carrying everyone else (which is human nature to perceive their own burdens more than their own perks while also being mostly blind to the troubles other people have) and being caustic about it to everyone. If I want to be understanding of Buffy as a person who was stressed out and hurting, having just buried someone, then fine, but I'm not going to portray her as some brilliant general as she gave that hypocritical speech. When she gave that speech, she was weak, not strong, and at some level she knew it which made her angry at herself, and then projecting that anger at everyone else around her, so that she could escape her own self-hatred for her own weakness by instead attacking that same weakness in everyone around her. Furthermore, Buffy is the last person who should be griping about someone getting weepy when she's been a whiny cry-Buffy off and on since season 2, and continuing into season 7 (though I sympathize with her until season 7).

I have never equated Vampirism with rape only that conducted by Vampires on humans which fortunately did not see much of . I equate vampirism with parasites They feed off humans and breed with humans by killing them and infecting there body with their off spring their .Child. Spike had a demon in him, Buffy wanted Spike to allow the demon though Buffy needed Spike not William . As for the soul Buffy never asked Spike to get a soul he did that off his own back Knowing he would never get near Buffy sexually again with out it , so any trauma he got from doing it was down to him, This I did this for you, was rubbish he did it for himself.
Buffy is just Human she never asked to be the Slayer, the people she relied on had let her down completely in season six and were little better in seven, Buffy never asked for the responsibility of the potential turning up if anything that was Giles , Buffy was not responsible for the First that was Willow bringing her back from heaven , So Buffy became hard well boo hoo she had all this to deal with, maybe she was a little dictatorial but Faith was so please Buffy was back so she no longer shouldered the responsibility, Buffy was strong in season seven she needed to be.

 

[thrasherpix]

I have never equated Vampirism with rape only that conducted by Vampires on humans which fortunately did not see much of . I equate vampirism with parasites They feed off humans and breed with humans by killing them and infecting there body with their off spring their .Child. Spike had a demon in him, Buffy wanted Spike to allow the demon though Buffy needed Spike not William . As for the soul Buffy never asked Spike to get a soul he did that off his own back Knowing he would never get near Buffy sexually again with out it , so any trauma he got from doing it was down to him, This I did this for you, was rubbish he did it for himself.

Lots of people equate vampirism with sex and rape, more so than trying to inject a substance (be it an experimental mutagen, like the T-virus into Alice in Resident Evil or say the demonic essence by the shadow men). Lots of scholarly and sociological analysis on that about vampires even before Dracula. BB posters even got me to think on how Angel drinking from Buffy was based on sex, which I hadn't caught before (and it's not that I'm blind to that interpretation as I did recognize it in a similar scene in the movie Blade). I believe there was an interview with Joss that talked about how that was intentional. In any case, I didn't see it, but it's still there.

I'll leave my thoughts regarding the different values of trauma (which shouldn't be a contest but is because of...nope, not going to say here) out of this thread as it's far too specific to an episode. But I'm sure I'll bring it up in some future thread that is a bit more general.

 

[Priceless]

This episode start with a prophetic dream, with the First Slayer telling Buffy 'It's not enough' and the episode goes on to show why that is true.

Anya and Spike are discussing the merits of demon v's human, with some heavy flirting from Anya. They run into a demon who they have to run away from. Spike later defend his action to Anya, framing it as the only logical thing to do, which Anya doesn't buy for one moment.

We are shown the army of girls being drilled by Kennedy. This is were Kennedy calls Chloe a maggot. Then we see that even Kennedy is just a kid playing at being a soldier as she's so gleeful about the act she's putting on.

The school/hellmouth is devolving quickly and Robin can do nothing about it. Andrew, who has useful skills, is wasting his time on baking and white boards. Willow is, as Kennedy says, the most powerful person they have, yet she is incapable of or too scared to use her powers. Anya and Xander admit that all they bring to the table is sarcasm Dawn is at least tryng, but doesn't have the knowledge needed.

Basically they are an incredibly useless bunch and my sympathy lies totally with Buffy. She's being told by Joyce, The First and The First Slayer that she is going to lose this battle and nothing they do will be enough. She's feeling guilty that she isn't going to be able to save all these girls, and she looks around at what she has, which isn't very much. It must be overwhelming for her.

Then Chloe kills herself. Chloe allows the First to intimidate and brainwash her. No wonder Buffy is angry, they've allowed the enemy in again. Buffy alone takes the responsibility to bury the body, that's the respect she pays to Chloe. This is the groups lowest point, they have already been defeated in this moment and the First has won. Buffy finally turns into the leader she needs to be and gives them all some home truths. If I were her I'd want to slap those girls silly, they've seen what they are up against and they are still playing. It's just not good enough. And that goes for Spike and Willow too

The second part of the episode is about the group realising what power is, where it comes from and what they need to do to survive. Buffy rejects the Shadowmen's offer of more power, refusing to become less human even if that would mean securing survival. Is survival worth it if you have to become in-human to achieve it. Spike's only way to survive is to put his coat back on, even though we see Robin questioning that decision. The coat is necessary for the greater good and without that coat and all the connotations it carries, the First Evil may never have been defeated.

When Willow uses her magic, Kennedy stops playing, stops wtih the glee and finally realises what real power actually means and what it can do. Willow sacrifices her own security and wellbeing to serve the greater good. She, like Spike, has to reconnect with her darkness to be useful in the fight.

The more I see this episode, the more I like it and the more I understand Buffy's predicament. To get it done, to win this war, you have to sacrifice. That sacrifice might be your own wellbeing or the wellbeing of others, but there is always sacrifice and you can only hope you've made the right choices at the time.

There are some other nice moments in the episode, the Anya/Spike flirting juxtaposed with Buffy/Robin flirting. Robin's line 'You're redefining the job and that takes guts' which is a series arc. I like that Spike is shocked that Buffy has told everyone about his soul. Of course I love the Buffy/Spike interaction, with Buffy trying to make Spike angry so he'll finally enter the fight and be some use, telling him she needs him to be dangerous and he can do it even with a soul. She needs all of him, the demon and the soul and gives him permission to be both souled and dangerous.

Dawn is great as the mini-watcher and is probably the most useful member of the team, even though she's the one without powers. I like that everyone tries to talk Buffy out of going through the portal, because they are scared and unwilling/unable to try anything useful, as when Anya suggests leaving Buffy in the other dimension is the safest choice. Love the end shot of the pit full of Turok-Han. This is what they are up against, and to win they have to be more than they are.

 

[TriBel]

Another nice review!

Andrew, who has useful skills, is wasting his time on baking and white boards.

Nice way of putting it . Is it Andrew's fault or is Buffy under-utilising him because she can't trust him? I've just realised that Andrew becomes good at scavenging (which is what Spike was good at).

Anya/Spike flirting juxtaposed with Buffy/Robin flirting

. See - I read that as flirting but her confrontation with Spike as "flirting" on their rather perverse terms (the terms she laid out to Amanda). I find it really charged.

I like the fact that his fight with the demon takes place in the same space as her revelation to him about being in heaven (S6).

I also like the fact that when she's given knowledge of the Turok-Han the light is almost white (although I've no idea where I'm going with the remark). Yes I do - As you say - it can only be tempered if she steps into the shadows. Take a look at Touched - as she lies on the bed in that final shot she's lit so that his shadow is falling on her (in my head that means they're engaged !).

BTW - I never got back to you about doors in the picture. I decided that if he went through the real door it led to what was known - and established forms of intoxication (the pub!). The figurative door leads to the unknown (as her portal does) but he could learn something valuable about himself (as she does) and his inner resources. He takes (or she pushes him through) the figurative door. Or something like that....

Nice! (please note when I use the term nice it means Nice! not "meh...nice").

 

[Priceless]

Nice way of putting it . Is it Andrew's fault or is Buffy under-utilising him because she can't trust him? I've just realised that Andrew becomes good at scavenging (which is what Spike was good at).

He does! Hadn't thought of that at all.

I think you're right and Andrew is under-utilised, but I don't think that's just Buffys doing. Everyone slaps Andrew down when he makes suggestions, though he must have been the one who told the group about Jonathan/First in First Date and maybe it was partly his idea to try and tape it. I wish that had given him the impetus to contibute more to the fight. But I think that's quite fitting in this episode that like everyone else, his contribution is minimal

Andrew also uses the phrase 'our secret headquarters', insinuating himself with the group and Buffy doesn't dissuade him from that idea. I think the trust is definitely growing

I like the fact that his fight with the demon takes place in the same space as her revelation to him about being in heaven (S6).

I did notice the Beware of the Dog sign There is so much I could have said, but i write so much anyway, I have to stop myself rambling on about everything

 

[TriBel]

I have to stop myself rambling on about everything

BHF!...I've built a career on rambling! Admittedly people roll their eyes a lot and I'm sure I've seen them take refuge in dark corners but it puts food on the table (actually, that's a metaphor because while Haribos and ready-meals may count as food they don't require a table).

 

[Fool for Buffy]

Then Chloe kills herself. Chloe allows the First to intimidate and brainwash her. No wonder Buffy is angry, they've allowed the enemy in again. Buffy alone takes the responsibility to bury the body, that's the respect she pays to Chloe. This is the groups lowest point, they have already been defeated in this moment and the First has won. Buffy finally turns into the leader she needs to be and gives them all some home truths. If I were her I'd want to slap those girls silly, they've seen what they are up against and they are still playing. It's just not good enough. And that goes for Spike and Willow too

Thank you for taking Buffy's side here. There is so much hate on her for talking to the girls about Chloe being stupid but she is right. She is doing her best to protect and train girls with no experience, and they consistently let the enemy in and allow themselves to be more influenced by The First than Buffy. As far as standing up to Spike and Willow as well, I agree she should, but when I watch this episode I'm actually surprised Willow takes Buffy's side because she seems so against her in Empty Places. And Willow has never been afraid to express an unpopular opinion that goes against Buffy or anyone. (Becoming, Lovers Walk, Pangs, Yoko Factor, Villains) Disregarding that, Buffy going after Spike for holding back is perfect. Spike needed that, and him going back for his coat is a great turning point to lead him to a spectacular last seven episodes.

 

[emnemnemnem]

I liked this episode, with some insight into the origins of the Slayer and conflict within the gang against evil.

I thought it was interesting when Buffy had the whole talk about needing to get out of one's comfort zone, to surprise the First, etc etc. Her superiority complex is really defined here, when she chastises basically everyone else without even touching on herself. We've seen this attitude of hers before, with her talking to Holden at the beginning of the season, confessing that she feels she is above her friends. Her little conflict with Spike was especially interesting (kinda wanted to hit Buffy over the head though), especially after Buffy gets called to the people who created the First Slayer.

At the portal destination place, it is revealed that the First Slayer was created using demon energies. This provides an interesting sorta contrast between the origins of the First Slayer versus its purpose in life (killing the evil that created it, essentially). However, Buffy cannot accept the extra power that the three men at the portal place offer her because she cannot bring herself to make herself less human. Thought this was interesting, since just a few scenes before, she basically reproved Spike on being more human, not "relishing the kill as much." Ironic, since she can't bring herself to dehumanize herself, even if it meant more power. So hopefully she ends up understanding Spike rather than resenting him.

Oh and also, I loved the Anya and Spike scenes. They were funny. and their friendship is sorta cute, with Anya awkwardly referring to their sex a season before and Spike getting all annoyed by Anya but still clearly caring for the ex-demon.

7/10!! It was good.

 

[Dora]

I liked this episode, with some insight into the origins of the Slayer and conflict within the gang against evil.

I thought it was interesting when Buffy had the whole talk about needing to get out of one's comfort zone, to surprise the First, etc etc. Her superiority complex is really defined here, when she chastises basically everyone else without even touching on herself. We've seen this attitude of hers before, with her talking to Holden at the beginning of the season, confessing that she feels she is above her friends. Her little conflict with Spike was especially interesting (kinda wanted to hit Buffy over the head though), especially after Buffy gets called to the people who created the First Slayer.

At the portal destination place, it is revealed that the First Slayer was created using demon energies. This provides an interesting sorta contrast between the origins of the First Slayer versus its purpose in life (killing the evil that created it, essentially). However, Buffy cannot accept the extra power that the three men at the portal place offer her because she cannot bring herself to make herself less human. Thought this was interesting, since just a few scenes before, she basically reproved Spike on being more human, not "relishing the kill as much." Ironic, since she can't bring herself to dehumanize herself, even if it meant more power. So hopefully she ends up understanding Spike rather than resenting him.

Oh and also, I loved the Anya and Spike scenes. They were funny. and their friendship is sorta cute, with Anya awkwardly referring to their sex a season before and Spike getting all annoyed by Anya but still clearly caring for the ex-demon.

7/10!! It was good.

Not sure all demons are evil ( Clem ) , certainly the one that appear,s to infects the slayer line appears not ....after all we have only Dracula's and Spike take on that Buffy's power coming from the dark.
I fully understand Buffy 's resistance to having more demon inserted into her, especially against her will ....look back at S6 she spent nearly the whole season not being herself

 

[Antho]

Just watched this one. It was more bad that I remember. As someone who has think about suicide in the past during very bad moments I think Buffy is an horrible person. The things she said about Chloe's death, I think she is awful ! I don't care for the situation, I don't care at all of anything, she has no right to talk about someone like that, she is only mean and pathetic for me. I don't know why I'm doing that to me, the next time I will skip this episode.

 

[spikenbuffy]

Team Buffy even if she's harsh, but poor Chloe.
She cried in her garden when she put her under the ground, she's not cold as people make her to be. Buffy thinks she's at fault for Chloe's death.
Buffy even admits she made a mistake and was harsh in the end and also in "Lies My Parents Told Me".
Giles put a pressure on her in Bring On The Night. Buffy is afraid to lose and has the weight of the life's potentials girls on her. Buffy has a tendency to be hard on herself "Forever", "Nightmares", "IOHEFY", "Help","Touched"... And she has a tendency to lash out when she's hurting "Sanctuary"... Now people can not love it, Buffy is harsh but it's understandable.
She can use her power unlike the others (Willow and the potentials).
People at her house surely expect that Buffy does the work.

- I'm anti Anya in this episode, she gets on my nerves, she isn't Buffy's friend ok so she has get out of house!!! And she' s no usefull, if Buffy saves the scoobies and her then she will be happy to be her friend LOL.
- Spike is badass in the end but he makes me laugh when went through the roof lol.
- Also Kennedy that idiot, thought that Willow's magic was cool lol, she surely knows that Willow killed Warren by magic but she thought that Willow's magic was cool lol. And she's so arrogant with the potentials.

 

[NeonSlayer]

I'm on Buffy's side. Shocking right?

I don't think suicide makes you weak and neither does Buffy. In Help she thought Cassie was going to commit suicide and gently asked her why she felt that way & why she wanted to hurt herself. In Earshot when she realized Jonathon was going to commit suicide and not a massacre she didn't tell him off and the next day gave a detailed progress report on him and Giles said it is good she is checking in on him. In Him seeing Dawn trying to commit suicide snapped her out of a love spell enough to rescue her and say "No man is worth your life, not ever. I'd give RJ to you in a second if I could, that's how much you're scaring me."

Buffy is against people in the GvE fight committing suicide. She suffers from depression & PTSD and often wants it all to be over but she's way too duty bound, she knows she is needed so keeps pushing her mental health to the side to get the job done. The only times we hear Buffy call someone weak for trying to commit suicide are in Amends & Get it Done, both cases of The First convincing one of Team Good to do the job for it of destroying themselves. It's what it does, in Conversations With Dead People it tried to get Willow to commit suicide.

Suicide IS selfish. But it is an incredibly understandable selfish. What I don't think is an understandable selfish is committing suicide in a place you know others will have to continue to be in every day. When I was 11 my mom tried to commit suicide. She grabbed a knife and locked herself in her bedroom. My 13 year old sister sobbed & banged on the door. I remember I threw the rainbow cross necklace my stepdad made me at him because the reason she was going to kill herself was he cheated on her (the only time) and was thinking of divorcing (they have now been married almost 30 years) and she's a rape survivor and all the guys she was with before him were abusive or losers so the thought of losing a good man who made her feel safe was too much.

Chloe committed suicide in Buffy's house. In Dawn's bedroom. In the same house Joyce died & Tara was murdered. About half a dozen girls would still have to sleep every night in the room her body was hanging in. And she knew it. No, she wasn't thinking rationally or about what would happen to them when she has the ultimate evil whispering in her ear. But it still wiped out all the morale boostings and confidence they'd gained since Buffy's Bring on the Night speech, seeing a Turok-han get beaten in Showtime, slaying their first vampire in Potential, going on a vision quest in The Killer in Me, etc. The Potentials can't run away because there is literally nowhere they can go, they were being hunted throughout the world. Their only two options were fight & maybe get brutally murdered or kill themselves as painlessly as they can. And you know they would be thinking, maybe Chloe had the right idea. She's safe in Heaven now while we're still having nightmares of monsters who really exist.

I don't agree with Buffy making that speech but she's in an impossible situation and definitely not a heartless hypocritical like the fandom has called her for years for those several minutes of pent up frustration.

If it was Dean Winchester or Rick Grimes I think fans would have empathized more with the speech giver we know intimately than the girl with minor screentime we met that season. That was episode 137 of 144 and so many fans just turned on Buffy and write her off as ruined.

 

[NeonSlayer]

Why take out the B & C words from my post instead of replacing a letter with an asterisk? I wasn't just cussing. Those were the actual names I've heard many fans on multiple websites refer to Buffy in s7. And I'm pretty sure I've seen the B word allowed many times on this site.

------------------

Buffy refusing to get jacked up with the demon essence in the cave is NOT the same as what she expected from Willow & Spike. That does NOT make her a hypocrite. That demon essence was the undiluted primeval stuff. It would be like if Spike on top of being a regular vampire got sired by the demon that created vampires and became a Turok-han on top of being a vampire. It would be like Willow tripling how much magic she has. Buffy just wanted them to use the abilities they already have, not to gain more to the point that they are unrecognizable. If Buffy became Slayer Concentrate on top of already being a Slayer her human side would be a tiny fraction. It'd be like a Doublemeat burger, 90% veggie with 10% meat. Think of Sineya's state and then add in more demon.

Buffy only made that comment about Anya being rescued because she out of the blue snidely said she's not Buffy's friend despite them being friends for years and Buffy going to her apartment, saving her from a demon attack, calling her a friend, and inviting her to live rent free in her house to keep her safer.

 

[Taake]

Why take out the B & C words from my post instead of replacing a letter with an asterisk? I wasn't just cussing. Those were the actual names I've heard many fans on multiple websites refer to Buffy in s7. And I'm pretty sure I've seen the B word allowed many times on this site.

As you may notice we don't allow using cuss words by simply changing letters for asterisks. The word and its meaning is still there with asterisks.
They may have been used on other websites, but can't be used here. If you want to adress that fans have called Buffy horrible names you could say "I've seen fans call her terrible names over this" or something to that effect.

True, we have been lenient on the b-word, but as we edited one yesterday, it would be unfair to leave yours. It also looked worse in conjunction with the c-word.

If you have more questions, feel free to PM one of the mods directly or ask a question in Angel Investigations.

 

[Stake fodder]

There are some strong feelings and well-written comments about the suicide here that I tend to agree with. I think it would have been better to have it be a Potential we knew more about, so the impact on the audience would be greater.

However, I felt like Buffy was speaking out of fear: one Potential has run and been killed, and now one has committed suicide. Their situation seems very hopeless, and I think Buffy is trying to replace despair with anger, even at herself, anything to buck up the Potentials (and Spike).

Still, how does Buffy expect the Potentials to be "useful"? So far, they are not allowed to do anything besides be trained. And the fact that this speech is coming from Buffy, who was going on a sort-of date herself just last episode, is another instance of plot whiplash this season.

I hated seeing Spike's coat back. Heretical opinion, I know! But I never liked it. It makes him look short, and the long, loose tails always seemed like they'd get caught on stuff during a fight. But yeah, I know he needs it to be fighting fit again!