• This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn more.
  • Thank you for visiting Buffy-Boards. You obviously have exceptional taste. We just want you to know that:
    1. You really should register so you can chat with us!
    2. Twelve thousand people can't be wrong.
    3. Buffy-Boards loves you.
    4. See 1 through 3.
    Come on, register already!

Discussion of 7.18 "Dirty Girls" - Aired 4/15/03 (UPN-US)

Buffy Summers

Yataro
Staff member
Joined
Nov 20, 2001
Messages
30,279
Likes
4,465
Location
The City of Angels
Sineya
#1
Willow comes back to town with a powerful ally, but the First has a new piece on the board as well. A misogynistic "preacher" named Caleb has come to town, and he throws down the gauntlet as soon as he enters Sunnydale. Buffy, the Scoobies, and the Potentials go to take up the challenge with disastrous results.
Source: TV.com

Discuss this episode here!
 

Nathan

Potential
Joined
Jan 13, 2011
Messages
110
Likes
9
Age
26
Location
Wigan, UK
#2
No comments on this ep?

I really enjoyed it :D One of my favourites of the series. Having Faith back was amazing :D I was surprised she didn't return sooner, or that we didn't see her be attacked by a bunch of Bringers in prison or something.
Caleb attacking that girl in the car was like the opening of a horror movie LOL! With the priest as the killer :p

I thought the Vineyard fight was so epic! I didn't expect Caleb to have all that strength :eek:
 

white avenger

white avenger
Joined
Sep 30, 2006
Messages
14,739
Likes
3,496
Age
70
Location
rome, georgia
#4
I thought that Caleb was a great villain. Fillion played him perfectly, and in a way that completely knocked Buffy off of her feet, both figuratively and literally, in that she made the same nearly fatal mistake as she did with Spike in Season 2 and Glory in Season 5. She forgot that there are beings in the world who are as powerful, if not more so, than she is. Maybe she was still pumped up over beating the ubervamp, maybe she was just overconfident because she had, not only Spike on her side once more, but also Faith, giving her two of the four finest fighters in the Buffyverse, backing her up. Who could have possibly expected that Caleb would have been able to walk all over all three?
 

Hale Caesar

Sunnydale Nerd
Joined
Oct 16, 2010
Messages
1,347
Likes
9
Location
Toronto, Ontario
#5
I'm disappointed they brought back Faith, they didn't give her as much attention as she deserves, instead we got more focus on the Potentials (surprise, surprise). They wasted Faith in Season 7, IMO, she should have stayed on Angel where she could have contributed to the story
 

Nathan

Potential
Joined
Jan 13, 2011
Messages
110
Likes
9
Age
26
Location
Wigan, UK
#6
I'm disappointed they brought back Faith, they didn't give her as much attention as she deserves, instead we got more focus on the Potentials (surprise, surprise). They wasted Faith in Season 7, IMO, she should have stayed on Angel where she could have contributed to the story
I actually disagree about Faith; okay she wasn't a huge feature in S7, but I did enjoy seeing her again, it was nice to see her fighting on the "right side" before the end :).
 

sisterofmercy

Ray of Sunshine..
Joined
Sep 12, 2010
Messages
1,614
Likes
10
Location
UK
#7
I actually disagree about Faith; okay she wasn't a huge feature in S7, but I did enjoy seeing her again, it was nice to see her fighting on the "right side" before the end :).
Yeah it was good to see her come full circle after her gradual transformation throughout both Buffy and Angel.
 

Hale Caesar

Sunnydale Nerd
Joined
Oct 16, 2010
Messages
1,347
Likes
9
Location
Toronto, Ontario
#8
I actually disagree about Faith; okay she wasn't a huge feature in S7, but I did enjoy seeing her again, it was nice to see her fighting on the "right side" before the end :).
She was fighting on the "right side" during Angel during season 4. It would have been epic if Faith stayed on Angel and helped fight Jasmine, IMO
 
Joined
Jun 18, 2003
Messages
4,057
Likes
159
Age
34
Location
England
Black Thorn
#10
I like that Faith is back, she's my favourite character. I love the interaction with her and Buffy at the beginning when Faith asks if she's the good slayer now. I really think that Faith and Spike would have made a great couple, they have some great scenes and they seemed to click straight away.

I liked Xander's speech about Buffy. I dont know what to think about Buffy in this episode. Part of me agrees with her that they should have gone and fought but another part thinks that they should have done more research first. They went in without any information and that's never going to end well.
 
Joined
Dec 21, 2009
Messages
107
Likes
0
Age
24
Location
Florida
#11
I thought that Caleb was a great villain. Fillion played him perfectly, and in a way that completely knocked Buffy off of her feet, both figuratively and literally, in that she made the same nearly fatal mistake as she did with Spike in Season 2 and Glory in Season 5. She forgot that there are beings in the world who are as powerful, if not more so, than she is. Maybe she was still pumped up over beating the ubervamp, maybe she was just overconfident because she had, not only Spike on her side once more, but also Faith, giving her two of the four finest fighters in the Buffyverse, backing her up. Who could have possibly expected that Caleb would have been able to walk all over all three?

Wait whose the other two finest fighters? Angel and Illyria?
 

white avenger

white avenger
Joined
Sep 30, 2006
Messages
14,739
Likes
3,496
Age
70
Location
rome, georgia
#12
Wait whose the other two finest fighters? Angel and Illyria?
The four finest fighters in the Buffyverse:

1) Buffy (hey, it's her show, so she gets to be the best just for that)
2) Spike
3) Faith
4) Angel

Whether they're in that order or not is strictly a matter of opinion and conjecture, but that's the Big Four. And when I call them the finest fighters, I mean the finest fighters on the side of good, so Glory, Caleb, and later, Hamilton, don't count.

As for Illyria, she wasn't in the picture as of that time.
 
Joined
Dec 21, 2009
Messages
107
Likes
0
Age
24
Location
Florida
#13
The four finest fighters in the Buffyverse:

1) Buffy (hey, it's her show, so she gets to be the best just for that)
2) Spike
3) Faith
4) Angel

Whether they're in that order or not is strictly a matter of opinion and conjecture, but that's the Big Four. And when I call them the finest fighters, I mean the finest fighters on the side of good, so Glory, Caleb, and later, Hamilton, don't count.

As for Illyria, she wasn't in the picture as of that time.

Gotcha I was just a little confused because you said she had 2 of the 4 so I wasn't sure if Buffy was being counted or not.
 

Jules

Bite Me
Joined
Jun 18, 2003
Messages
4,057
Likes
159
Age
34
Location
England
Black Thorn
#14
I've just listened to the commentary by Drew Goddard and Nicholas Brendon, which has some interesting information.

The whole episode is about objectifying women, from Xander's fantasy to Andrew's story about Faith (even though its harmless).

They give a breakdown of the seasons; season 2 is about the bad boyfriend, season 3 is about male authority figures, season 4 is about a robot, season 5 is extravagant femals, season 6 is sad and season 7 is female empowerment.

Cabel is meant to represent the bad that happens in religion, not that religion is bad.

They wrote this show 12 months prior to its airing and it focus' on going to war. When it aired USA went to war and it just happened to be bad timing.

There was a talk of a Faith spin off and they were going to build it around Faith and Spike. They almost wrote that scene in the basement as if Spike and Faith had never met because Eliza and James had never worked together. It was only by chance that someone remembered the body swap episode :)

Xander is the glue that keeps the group together and when he gets hurt everything falls apart. They were going to kill him and bring him back as the First but they realised that if they killed Xander it wouldnt have been a happy ending.
 
wickedtiger86
wickedtiger86
Oh I'm so glad they remembered the body swap and that Spike got to quote that line back to her. lol
SunnydaleGlitz
SunnydaleGlitz
Thank you for this, great to know that background information!

tylermaaynard

Numberonebuffyfan
Joined
Jun 1, 2012
Messages
56
Likes
0
Location
United Kingdom
#15
Uh oh, didn't see this episode discussion thread, I've just posted a thread on season 7 whoops! Any way this is probably my favourite episode in season 7! I love how they brought faith back for the final episodes of the show. And I LOVE the fight scene toward the end of the episode, I think it's amazing!
 
Joined
Jun 2, 2013
Messages
218
Likes
73
Age
24
Location
England
#16
"Angel's dull as a table lamp" Haha, too true.

Brilliant episode, Caleb is a great villain and it's always interesting to see Buffy lose a fight. Shame the more annoying potentials couldn't have been killed instead of the ones that did. (A.k.a. Rona)
Very gruesome to see Xander lose his eye.
 

PassionBecoming

Minuscule Redheaded One
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
2,316
Likes
252
Location
Northern Minnesota
Sineya
#17
Ugh, I don't even want to watch this one. And now that I know all the crazy Faith went through before getting back to Sunnydale, I feel bad that she's walking into this mess. After watching Firefly, I will probably see Caleb a little differently, too.

-Nice to see the S3 flashbacks. Very long recap.
-Yup, Mal as a priest makes me giggle.
-This whole "Slayers in training" thing just bugs me. Makes no sense.
-That Caleb has uncanny timing with Faith and Willow right behind him. Sidenote: Faith's bruised face sure healed up quick on the drive back.
-So, there are Potentials all over Xander's apartment, too? Makes more sense than him staying at Buffy's.
-Oooh, boy. Xander must be dreaming. And that's Rachel Bilson!
-Ah, the typical pillow fight fantasy. Aaaand back to reality. Leg cramp code. Heh.
-Poor Faith all uninformed about evil trying to kill her. Though, Buffy and crew were a bit busy...
-Heh. Love how Spike figures out Faith is a Slayer. "Holier than thou glower." Though didn't they meet in S4 or did he never actually see Faith?
-Yay for Buffy/Faith banter!
-Spike all disgruntled at being compared to Angel. Heehee.
-Look, Buffy's hair magically got recurled and unfrizzied on the way back to her house!
-"Brat's all woman-sized." I love that line. I would be curious to see the memories Faith and Dawn have of each other.
-Caleb, the Body of Christ didn't become wine. :p Black is slimming. Heh.
-Soo...Caleb was obviously unbalanced before The First started using him, but he seems pretty uninformed about the work he's doing and why.
-Andrew. *facepalm* Also, how does he know so much about Faith?
-I'm glad Buffy semi-explained herself to Robin after all that. Followed shortly by her firing. Heh.
-"Aaaand you're fired again."
-Faith and Spike bonding. How sweet.
-Making fun of Glitter. Deserved.
-Now onto sex talk. Tension? I think so.
-And then Buffy comes and ruins the fun. Hel-lo there, ugly jealousy. Flashback to her walking in on Angel hugging Faith. I think it was [MENTION=6758]white avenger[/MENTION] that said "Buffy doesn't like to share her play toys."
-Buffy had to change before she went to the hospital?
-Ugh, Buffy, I get wanting to take action, but maybe research and think this through a bit?
-Sooo....Caleb is an active minister somewhere? Oh, nevermind. Ahhh, so he was a serial killer. Creepy.
-Giles and Xander have a point. Buffy is running into a battle with no information and it is definitely screaming "TRAP!" I do think Buffy is excellent at what she does, but no one is above listening to alternate theories.
-Glad Buffy acknowledged she needs Faith there and thanks her. She was about to get all jealous about Faith being in Angel's head, though. ;)
-Yay for Xander battle speeches!
-I feel like maybe the Potentials should have started hunting vamps to practice, not going straight to Bringers...
-Heeeere's Caleb...
-Girls did ok against the Bringers. Then Caleb knocked out Buffy, soaked Spike in wine, and kicked Faith's butt. That can't bode well for the future.
-So, Caleb vs. The Beast. Who wins?
-Oh, Xander. Worst. Scene. Ever.
-Sunnydale sure is quiet nowadays. And Buffy is left alone with her thoughts.
 
Joined
Jun 2, 2013
Messages
218
Likes
73
Age
24
Location
England
#19
Spike and Faith would have made an interesting couple, though maybe in S3-6.
Xander losing an eye was punishment for getting Kennedy out of there. :p
In this episode, I can sympathise with the potentials. They just weren't prepared to deal with Caleb.
 
Joined
Feb 21, 2015
Messages
1,888
Likes
1,049
Location
Brazil
Sineya
#20
Great episode.

Caleb is terryfying even without showing his physical strength. Great villain.

Andrew and his talent to tell stories are very entertaining!

And so Faith arrives - great entrance at the cemetery, the fight with Spike and their discussion about what side they are fighting for... and he is just like Angel. :)

Faith points out that the Scoobies forgot to warn her about the Bringers, and her arrival doesn't bring the most warm of welcomes: Buffy punches her, Giles is cold, and Dawn is down right displeased. And notice that Buffy, when she is with Faith in this episode, always is with her arms crossed, a signal of defensiveness. Even Faith feels that and asks if Buffy wants her to stay. Faith seems not to care about all that much, maybe because she is so used to it.

Faith has better luck with Spike, who explains to her that the tension isn't just about her (and I love her answer: "Well, that makes me feel better about me, worse about Giles... kinda shaky about you") and later they have a nice meeting in the basement...

The trap; it looks like a trap and still Buffy decides to go to the vineyard, and without doing any research about the father guy, who ended up to be much more than he looked like. It's interesting that Buffy took Wood's advice about being the time to test the Potentials. Xander does an emotional speech about Buffy - she is the one who always fought and sacrificied herself for others. That's make what happened even worse - all the burden and guilty fall on Buffy's shoulders, and in the end she is alone.

Xander losing his eye and Willow totally broken by his side... :(