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Discussion of 7.22 "Chosen" - Aired 5/22/03 (UPN-US)
- Thread starter Buffy Summers
- Start date
Loved it the first time round, but the more I watch it and discuss it, it slips and slips. Out of all 144 episodes I would rank this probably early 30's. It's the end of Buffy, and for me it's the worse season finale out of all 7, and it should of stood out above the rest.
M
msfantastico87
[No message]
Quote:
Angel arrives with an amulet which may be a weapon against the First. The battle-lines are drawn and the gang spends the night preparing for the final confrontation. A confrontation that some may not survive. Armed with an amulet they know nothing about, a scythe which holds the key to the Slayer line, and magicks which they may not be able to control, they prepare to face the assembled armies of the First Evil.
"A confrontation that some may not survive" is actually one colossal understatement. Given the weapons and personnel at Buffy's disposal, her actions were nothing short of suicidal. Being the sucker for heroic last stands that I am, I really enjoyed it, though I do wish that that final episode could have been somehow expanded to double length, with a bit more time devoted to details that had to be almost skipped over entirely in order to get everything into the allowed 44 minutes. This was Buffy's swan song. As far as we knew at the time, the last time that we would ever see her or her friends. I wanted it to last longer.
Angel arrives with an amulet which may be a weapon against the First. The battle-lines are drawn and the gang spends the night preparing for the final confrontation. A confrontation that some may not survive. Armed with an amulet they know nothing about, a scythe which holds the key to the Slayer line, and magicks which they may not be able to control, they prepare to face the assembled armies of the First Evil.
"A confrontation that some may not survive" is actually one colossal understatement. Given the weapons and personnel at Buffy's disposal, her actions were nothing short of suicidal. Being the sucker for heroic last stands that I am, I really enjoyed it, though I do wish that that final episode could have been somehow expanded to double length, with a bit more time devoted to details that had to be almost skipped over entirely in order to get everything into the allowed 44 minutes. This was Buffy's swan song. As far as we knew at the time, the last time that we would ever see her or her friends. I wanted it to last longer.
Thursday July 21, 2011 will be the day that Buffy ended for me. I finally got to watch the finale yesterday. I thought it was a satisfying ending. The best season finale will always be Season 5, but the show ended on a good note. I got some chills watching the last few episodes and felt the nostalgia of it all. I've watched all seven seasons in about a year and I will miss it greatly. I loved the smile on Buffy's face in the final scene when we finally knew that she felt the relief that she would not have to be alone in defending the world anymore, with all of the new slayers. That was a satisfying moment for me and gave me the proper closure for the show. I still will always wish that I had watched it while it was on, but at least I got to see it and discuss it here. It was wonderful.
I adamantly agree with White Avenger that the finale should have been made into a 2hr finale. I clearly remember when it first aired, and I feel as much now as i did then, that there was something lacking, though i can't really define what, exactly.
I will never understand how, to appease the Bangels, Joss decided to turn Buffy into the kind of woman who goes from telling one man how much he means to her, to kissing another one, and then goes back into bed with the first one
I always viewed Buffy as being true of heart, and not remotely capable of that kind of thoughtlessness.
Anya's death makes me scream EVERYTIME, no matter how many times i watch this one. I would have gleefully had Wood die instead of Anya, but I guess that was better than the initial script that killed Xander.
The making of the Slayers was great, and i love how Buffy, once again, is going against everything that has preceded her in the fight against evil.
Also, with all the potentials and stuff around, there just didn't seem like enough old Scooby mushy stuff, which i would have liked...the part in the school just wasn't quite enough nostalgia for me.
Overall, though, it just closed down the chapter of the show (Sunnydale), but kept the future (comics) wide open, so, overall, i guess it's ok.
I will never understand how, to appease the Bangels, Joss decided to turn Buffy into the kind of woman who goes from telling one man how much he means to her, to kissing another one, and then goes back into bed with the first one
I always viewed Buffy as being true of heart, and not remotely capable of that kind of thoughtlessness.Anya's death makes me scream EVERYTIME, no matter how many times i watch this one. I would have gleefully had Wood die instead of Anya, but I guess that was better than the initial script that killed Xander.
The making of the Slayers was great, and i love how Buffy, once again, is going against everything that has preceded her in the fight against evil.
Also, with all the potentials and stuff around, there just didn't seem like enough old Scooby mushy stuff, which i would have liked...the part in the school just wasn't quite enough nostalgia for me.
Overall, though, it just closed down the chapter of the show (Sunnydale), but kept the future (comics) wide open, so, overall, i guess it's ok.
I think Joss took the high road on the Angel/Spike thing with Buffy. Kind of making both sides happy. The Slayer being with a Vampire was probably the greatest conflict on the entire show. She never really did commit to either one of them, so why did it have to end with her expressing which one she really wanted to be with? Maybe it was neither. I always felt she belonged with Angel, even though I found him boring compared to Spike, who had way more personality and pizzaz. To each his own. I wasn't disappointed that in the end, she couldn't decide. Why should she have to? To satisfy the fans? Whichever camp lost, that group would have gone unsatisfied forever. I always found the relationships on Buffy to be somewhat unsatisfying. My favorite was always Oz and Willow. When Oz left, if she was to be with anyone, I felt it was Xander. Never happened. I hated the lesbian thing, but I understand why Joss ran with it. I also hated Anya, at first, but she grew on me, as she seemed to for all of the fans. I never thought there was a need for her after Cordelia. Xander and Willow forever, is how it should have been. In the end, Buffy wasn't about resolving those relationships. They all kind of went open-ended. That's fine with me.
Absolutely. I think that that was Joss' only real reason for having Angel appear in that episode. The series ended with Buffy FINALLY admitting to Spike what her true feelings were for him. If Angel had not been there earlier to remind the fans that he was still in Buffy's thoughts, the Bangels would have stormed his house with torches, pitchforks, tar, and feathers. Both men HAD to be there, and Buffy could NOT share a single scene two of them. Any hint, no matter how slight, that Buffy was making a final, definite choice, would have hindered, if not curtailed entirely, one of the single most debated topics in the Buffyverse fandom. Does our Slayer's heart of hearts truly belong to Spike, or is it Angel who she sees as her true soul mate. Or, for that matter, is it EITHER of them?
This is the classic "Astronauts vs Cavemen" argument. It will never definitely and finally be answered, though Joss will tantalize both ships shamelessly for as long as the series continues or has any hope of being renewed once more in any way, shape, or form. Both the Bangels and the Spuffies will continue to "know" that theirs is ultimately the right answer, but neither will ever attain any final confirmation.
And throughout the entire debate, those who are invested in neither ship will roll their eyes, sigh, and get on with what they consider the "real" issues that should concern Buffy and her universe.
This is the classic "Astronauts vs Cavemen" argument. It will never definitely and finally be answered, though Joss will tantalize both ships shamelessly for as long as the series continues or has any hope of being renewed once more in any way, shape, or form. Both the Bangels and the Spuffies will continue to "know" that theirs is ultimately the right answer, but neither will ever attain any final confirmation.
And throughout the entire debate, those who are invested in neither ship will roll their eyes, sigh, and get on with what they consider the "real" issues that should concern Buffy and her universe.
I love this episode. I remember watching it when it first aired and being so annoyed that Buffy went from telling Angel that she sometimes does think of being with him in the future to Spike and telling him she loved him. Watching it now, I agree with what everyone in this thread has pretty much said, the way the episode went it appeased both 'ships as best it could.
I love the name calling that both Angel and Spike do for each other, its very childish I loved that Spike's punching bag had that drawing of Angel's face and that Giles, Xander, Andrew and Amanda were playing that board game. The humour was nicely mixed in with this episode.
I have a problem with Anya's death and I do hope, had the episode been able to air a little longer that that scene would have been extended and Xander's reaction to it at the end.
Overall it was a good way to end the TV series.
I love the name calling that both Angel and Spike do for each other, its very childish
I loved that Spike's punching bag had that drawing of Angel's face and that Giles, Xander, Andrew and Amanda were playing that board game. The humour was nicely mixed in with this episode.I have a problem with Anya's death and I do hope, had the episode been able to air a little longer that that scene would have been extended and Xander's reaction to it at the end.
Overall it was a good way to end the TV series.
PreferSpike
Forgot about the dungeons and dragons scene. That was great. I love Andrew.
I can't say that I liked the whole of the episode, probably because I don't like the idea of there being so many slayers. It ruins the whole idea of the show for me. I guess that Buffy and Faith couldn't have beat the Turok-Han alone, but even with the potentials they wouldn't have if it wasn't for Spike. And even with defeating the Turok-Han, they didn't really beat The First, who was the true Big Bad of the series.
But ignoring the negatives of it because I think I could go on forever, I do agree with 'Buffenuff' about Buffy's smile in the last scene. Dawn may have got the last words in the show, but I do feel that Buffy got the last say. Her smile said more than any words ever could.
And of course Buffy finally fulfilling Cassie's prophesy by telling Spike that she loved him was a plus too!
But ignoring the negatives of it because I think I could go on forever, I do agree with 'Buffenuff' about Buffy's smile in the last scene. Dawn may have got the last words in the show, but I do feel that Buffy got the last say. Her smile said more than any words ever could.
And of course Buffy finally fulfilling Cassie's prophesy by telling Spike that she loved him was a plus too!
I hated this episode, it is honestly one of the most disappointing I have ever seen. Buffy has been about subversion and quality. Chosen has neither. It is just some boring generic giant battle, Anya dies and it has literally no effect on the show despite being a very important character. Spike has a great death scene...and then comes back in season 5 of Angel, which cheapens the episode. Angel (why I love the character) has an awkward and unnecessary appearance.
I watched this episode and it was clear that Joss and the writers just stopped caring.
I watched this episode and it was clear that Joss and the writers just stopped caring.
I listened to the commentary by Joss and he mentioned some interesting things.
They purposely shot the Buffy/Angel scene in a cemetery. Joss said it was very difficult trying to make Buffy not look, I'll say shallow (Joss said something else) going from Angel straight to Spike. Angel's scene were he leaves is meant to mirror his first exit and is meant to give potential hope for Bangel fans.
I'm going to be fair and write all the Spuffy comments to, even though it goes against everything Bangel in me Joss says that Spuffy have been through a lot together, more than Bangel have and they show their vulnerabilities with each other. He goes on to explain the rape from season 6, and that it was a soulless act but now their relationship has moved on to trust.
Wood and Faith's scene then goes on to show the isolated nature of the slayer.
He mentioned wanting to bring Tara back and when that didnt happen they created Kennedy, who is meant to be the complete opposite of everything Tara. Also their relationship was so that someone out of the Scoobies would end the show in a good relationship.
Another mirror scene was the scene with the Scoobies and Giles when he says the earth is doomed (I think we all got that one anyway)
And here for you Spuffy fans Joss does say that Buffy means what she says when she tells Spike that she loves him
Anya's death wasn't meant to be heroic (personally, I thought it was) but Andrew tells Xander a ''story'', which is Andrew's thing throught season 7, and it gives Xander the closure he needs about her death.
They purposely shot the Buffy/Angel scene in a cemetery. Joss said it was very difficult trying to make Buffy not look, I'll say shallow (Joss said something else
) going from Angel straight to Spike. Angel's scene were he leaves is meant to mirror his first exit and is meant to give potential hope for Bangel fans.I'm going to be fair and write all the Spuffy comments to, even though it goes against everything Bangel in me
Joss says that Spuffy have been through a lot together, more than Bangel have and they show their vulnerabilities with each other. He goes on to explain the rape from season 6, and that it was a soulless act but now their relationship has moved on to trust.Wood and Faith's scene then goes on to show the isolated nature of the slayer.
He mentioned wanting to bring Tara back and when that didnt happen they created Kennedy, who is meant to be the complete opposite of everything Tara. Also their relationship was so that someone out of the Scoobies would end the show in a good relationship.
Another mirror scene was the scene with the Scoobies and Giles when he says the earth is doomed (I think we all got that one anyway
)And here for you Spuffy fans
Joss does say that Buffy means what she says when she tells Spike that she loves him Anya's death wasn't meant to be heroic (personally, I thought it was) but Andrew tells Xander a ''story'', which is Andrew's thing throught season 7, and it gives Xander the closure he needs about her death.
Just read this on IMDb- I love hearing the details about filmmaking!
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0533407/trivia
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0533407/trivia
Ugh, I want to watch, but I don't because then it's over!!
-Yay for more kissin'!!! "I just wanna bask."
-Ahh, nice to have the background about where the file of information came from now.
-Ewww, Caleb is so GROSS!
-She doesn't have the what now, Caleb?? Epic kill.
-Yay for punning Buffy!
-"You've got that real cool axe-thing going for you."
-Jealous Angel. Love him. I do get why he would be thrown for a loop, though. And hurt. Buffy would be the same if she new about Cordelia.
-Captain Peroxide. Heh.
-Ah, the cookie dough analogy. I get it though and I think it's a mature realization for Buffy that she's just not ready to commit herself to someone yet. And I love the moments with those two. They should have had their love theme playing in the background, though.
-I like how Buffy and Angel leave things - just open. They know they will always love eachother, no matter how it goes. Angel entered Buffy's life from the shadows and now leaves in them.
-"I'll start working on that second front. Make sure I don't need it." I'm curious to see if this whole epic battle is played out on the L.A. front in S5.
-*kicks shin* "Dumbass." "You get killed, I'm telling." Sister moment.
-I get you, Xander. Sometimes I shouldn't say words either.
-And now jealous Spike. Heehee. Not sure why I find those two so entertaining.
-The drawing of Angel with the hair. Heh.
-Spike is awesome for stepping up with the amulet, not knowing what it will do to him. And Buffy showing him he's a champion. Yay!
-"Clearly you don't because the having no pride thing is a smokescreen." Haha. He wants to snuggle some more!
-The Taunter. The Wanna-Slay Brigade. Gotta love the witty.
-Drowning in footwear?
-"We're gonna win." Yeehaw!
-Buffy revealing her plan: reminiscent of S3 finale.
-Buffy in beige. Her whole outfit looks so girlie - stark contrast to the general of the army she has to be. And so pretty!
-"Have a little faith." "I think I've had my share of that, thanks." Oh, my.
-Defensive isolationist Slayer crap. Heh.
-Robin critiquing Faith in bed is hilarious. And "There is no way you're prettier than me."
-Willow and Kennedy moment do nothing but annoy me.
-Poor Giles playing crazy fantasy games. Hahaha. "Only the crazy ones." Awww.
-Creepy abandoned school. Love Robin's intro.
-"Anything you say is going to sound like good-bye."
-And then there were four. The Scoobies. The original. The awesome.
-Splitting off. The team. Also, I love Buffy's outfit, but are those really the most sensible shoes you could pick for fighting ubervamps?
-"Come on, Red, make it happen." Best line from Kennedy the whole season.
-Spike looking like Liz Taylor. Heh.
-Turning the Potentials to Slayers seems like it's the only option and a good one at the time, but knowing what comes in S8 takes the happy out of it. :/
-Does the Scythe still have power now?
-Kennedy is a good fighter though.
-Anya and Andrew.
-Yikes, Buffy, never leave your back open! Eegads. Opposite side of what Riley had to patch up, anyway.
-Xander and Dawn fight quite well together, actually.
-Ugh, Anya. It's so sudden and unexpected. Hate it.
-Tide is turning. Eep.
-That Look on Buffy's face when she tell off The First. True grit, my friends. Go time.
-"Oh, bullocks." Yikes, Spike!! Neat trick.
-The light is shining through Spike's soul. <3
-Leave it to Spike to quote a rock song on his way out.
-Such a great moment with Spike and Buffy. I feel like when they joined hands, they felt each other's souls and their connection. I don't truly think there is a romantic love there after watching this season again - but there is a love, friendship, mutual respect for how far each has come. Good stuff.
-Spike burning up made my toes tingle in a bad way.
-Buffy exiting the battle with the bloody scythe. Imagery.
-Xander and Anya.
-I always loved the Scoobies standing together at the end. And the final shot of Buffy: she is no longer just a victim of fate. The Hellmouth that tried to kill her for years, the evil that came out, everything there has been defeated. And she isn't alone.
Yup, still hurts finishing the last ep.
-Yay for more kissin'!!! "I just wanna bask."
-Ahh, nice to have the background about where the file of information came from now.
-Ewww, Caleb is so GROSS!
-She doesn't have the what now, Caleb?? Epic kill.
-Yay for punning Buffy!
-"You've got that real cool axe-thing going for you."
-Jealous Angel. Love him.
I do get why he would be thrown for a loop, though. And hurt. Buffy would be the same if she new about Cordelia.-Captain Peroxide. Heh.
-Ah, the cookie dough analogy. I get it though and I think it's a mature realization for Buffy that she's just not ready to commit herself to someone yet. And I love the moments with those two. They should have had their love theme playing in the background, though.
-I like how Buffy and Angel leave things - just open. They know they will always love eachother, no matter how it goes. Angel entered Buffy's life from the shadows and now leaves in them.
-"I'll start working on that second front. Make sure I don't need it." I'm curious to see if this whole epic battle is played out on the L.A. front in S5.
-*kicks shin* "Dumbass." "You get killed, I'm telling." Sister moment.
-I get you, Xander. Sometimes I shouldn't say words either.
-And now jealous Spike. Heehee. Not sure why I find those two so entertaining.
-The drawing of Angel with the hair. Heh.
-Spike is awesome for stepping up with the amulet, not knowing what it will do to him. And Buffy showing him he's a champion. Yay!
-"Clearly you don't because the having no pride thing is a smokescreen." Haha. He wants to snuggle some more!
-The Taunter. The Wanna-Slay Brigade. Gotta love the witty.
-Drowning in footwear?
-"We're gonna win." Yeehaw!
-Buffy revealing her plan: reminiscent of S3 finale.
-Buffy in beige. Her whole outfit looks so girlie - stark contrast to the general of the army she has to be. And so pretty!
-"Have a little faith." "I think I've had my share of that, thanks." Oh, my.
-Defensive isolationist Slayer crap. Heh.
-Robin critiquing Faith in bed is hilarious. And "There is no way you're prettier than me."
-Willow and Kennedy moment do nothing but annoy me.
-Poor Giles playing crazy fantasy games. Hahaha. "Only the crazy ones." Awww.
-Creepy abandoned school. Love Robin's intro.
-"Anything you say is going to sound like good-bye."
-And then there were four. The Scoobies. The original. The awesome.
-Splitting off. The team. Also, I love Buffy's outfit, but are those really the most sensible shoes you could pick for fighting ubervamps?
-"Come on, Red, make it happen." Best line from Kennedy the whole season.
-Spike looking like Liz Taylor. Heh.
-Turning the Potentials to Slayers seems like it's the only option and a good one at the time, but knowing what comes in S8 takes the happy out of it. :/
-Does the Scythe still have power now?
-Kennedy is a good fighter though.
-Anya and Andrew.
-Yikes, Buffy, never leave your back open! Eegads. Opposite side of what Riley had to patch up, anyway.
-Xander and Dawn fight quite well together, actually.
-Ugh, Anya. It's so sudden and unexpected. Hate it.
-Tide is turning. Eep.
-That Look on Buffy's face when she tell off The First. True grit, my friends. Go time.
-"Oh, bullocks." Yikes, Spike!! Neat trick.
-The light is shining through Spike's soul. <3
-Leave it to Spike to quote a rock song on his way out.
-Such a great moment with Spike and Buffy. I feel like when they joined hands, they felt each other's souls and their connection. I don't truly think there is a romantic love there after watching this season again - but there is a love, friendship, mutual respect for how far each has come. Good stuff.
-Spike burning up made my toes tingle in a bad way.
-Buffy exiting the battle with the bloody scythe. Imagery.
-Xander and Anya.
-I always loved the Scoobies standing together at the end. And the final shot of Buffy: she is no longer just a victim of fate. The Hellmouth that tried to kill her for years, the evil that came out, everything there has been defeated. And she isn't alone.
Yup, still hurts finishing the last ep.
VisionGirl
Love this overview!
I know that this isn't the best episode, and I know that the whole winning thing was just pure luck. A lot of this episode is just really bad when you really get down to analysing it, but no matter what, this will be one of my favorite and most nostalgic episode ever. Either way, it had such an epic feeling to it when I first watched it, and it's one of the only finale ever that I really found satisfying upon the first watch.
R
Robb Stark
[No message]
I read something awhile back, and I was just wondering if anyone else had seen it. The scene towards the end, the night before the final battle, there is what I have always referred to as the "fade to black" scene, where Spike is sitting on his bunk looking at the amulet. he looks up and sees Buffy at the top of the stairs, stands, and they, supposedly, meet at the foot of the basement stairs, but we never actually know, because the scent closes before they actually meet. This has always been one of my favorite Spuffy scenes, and one that I have often wondered "just how did they spend the night," as I'm sure more than a few other fans have also.
I read recently that in the original script, that was supposed to be the First Evil in Buffy's form, come to mock Spike one last time, but Joss changed it in the televised version. Has anyone else ever heard that, or was it just a vicious rumor perpetrated by jealous Bangels?
I read recently that in the original script, that was supposed to be the First Evil in Buffy's form, come to mock Spike one last time, but Joss changed it in the televised version. Has anyone else ever heard that, or was it just a vicious rumor perpetrated by jealous Bangels?
I've never heard that before, and I kind of doubt it. I don't like it, and I'm a Bangel, so there goes your theory.
(And I'm sure that you know that the vicious Bangel thing wasn't aimed at you)
I was a little unclear about how the power of Buffy's scythe was capable of transforming all of the potentials into slayers. What specifically about that scythe was capable of doing that? I'm sure I could find the details somewhere, but I figured I might as well ask here first. It kind of felt like the power of the scythe to turn potentials into slayers was something of a deus ex machina too (a too-convenient way to resolve the difficulties of the plot) but maybe not, I'm not sure. It felt a little like that though. Willow's magic abilities have always had that quality too (including the final spell to turn everyone to slayers). A little too easy and convenient.
I agree with others that this episode should have been longer than the usual 43 minutes.
I don't know how I feel about this finale. On the one hand, most of the major things were touched on (Bangel, Spuffy and some final moments among the original scoobies, which were nice...a nice gesture towards how it all began) but on the other hand it felt somewhat anticlimactic.
One thing is for sure though: I'm sad that the television series ends here. I know that the comics keep things going (and I will start reading them when I get the chance) but from what I've been told about them, things change dramatically and are never quite the same. And I will miss most the specific performances of several of my favorite actors/actresses from the show.
I agree with others that this episode should have been longer than the usual 43 minutes.
I don't know how I feel about this finale. On the one hand, most of the major things were touched on (Bangel, Spuffy and some final moments among the original scoobies, which were nice...a nice gesture towards how it all began) but on the other hand it felt somewhat anticlimactic.
One thing is for sure though: I'm sad that the television series ends here. I know that the comics keep things going (and I will start reading them when I get the chance) but from what I've been told about them, things change dramatically and are never quite the same. And I will miss most the specific performances of several of my favorite actors/actresses from the show.