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Discussion of 8.25 "Living Doll" - Released 5/06/09 (Dark Horse)

Buffyverse Fan

* The 28th *
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Sineya
Am I wrong, or weren't we promised some Twilight-info by the end of Predators & Prey? This issue didn't even touch on Twilight at all, and it's the last...

Another oddity is Andrew's poor undercover skills given he managed to "trick" both Angel & Spike just a few years earlier...
 

Mumrik

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^ I was a bit disappointed about Andrew's undercover abilites too. Not denying that it was funny but still... he knew and liked Spike so shouldn't it have been harder for him trying to trick Spike than a total stranger? Though I liked that the totems were Yodas :D

I didn't really understand the motive of that Gepetto guy in the woods. If he was just protecting his dolls (and Dawn) why was he carving her face in the beginning?

Overall I liked this issue. When not in tentacle-monster form, he was a good-looking guy so I definitely get why Dawn fell for and still liked him when she learned what he really was.

The sister-bonding between Dawn and Buffy in the end was nice to see too. It was time.

I'm glad the one-shot arcs are over.
 

AndrewCrossett

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Scott Allie explains that "Twilight" is the overall title of the season, as used by him and Joss... his note in #20 referred to the fact that this issue would have a turning point in the "Twilight" series, not in regards to the character Twilight. Which is all very confusing. But Georges Jeanty has seemed to suggest that T's identity won't be revealed until later on, toward the end of the season.

I loved this issue. The character voices were back, the dialog popped, and the final scene with Buffy and Dawn was well worth the ride. (Although I admit to being a little disappointed that the explanation for Dawn's transformations was so simple.)

Kenny turned out to be more or less of a good guy after all, and an interesting and entertaining character. He'd make a nice addition to the team, actually, but I guess the cast is large enough already.

Big points for the Veronica Mars shout-outs, and another Yellow Submarine reference from Jeanty!

And my darling Leah was back... although her shirt seemed to transmogrify itself in each panel she was in. Maybe it's a magical shirt she got while shopping in Hogsmeade.
 

BuffyBot38

Dark Willow Is So Cool
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I have to say this was not the best issue of the series i was extremly dissapoited by the way they told the dawn arc. Plus wasent there supposed to be some Twilight this issue. The issue went to quick and dident explain dawn as much as it should hav
 

Buffed

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Thank god the Dawn transformation nonsense is over (hopefully). I still don't understand why it was necessary to have the arc in the first place, since it didn't really go anywhere. In S6, they didn't have anything for Dawn to do, so they made up that lame Klepto stuff. Felt like they didn't have anything for Dawn to do, so they did these silly transformations. To be honest, I would just prefer if Dawn went off to college in Berkeley and they spent more time focusing on Buffy, Willow, Xander, Giles, and Faith.
 
A

Allycat

Guest
Not my favourite issue, but not the worse either. I was expecting a little more maybe. I am curious to see what Dawn's position within the team is going to be now. She could theoretically go back to college?!
 

Clem Rocks

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Scott Allie explains that "Twilight" is the overall title of the season, as used by him and Joss... his note in #20 referred to the fact that this issue would have a turning point in the "Twilight" series, not in regards to the character Twilight. Which is all very confusing. But Georges Jeanty has seemed to suggest that T's identity won't be revealed until later on, toward the end of the season.
sounds like he's trying to cover up him lying to us to me

---------- Post added at 09:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:13 PM ----------

Ok, i just read it, thought it was pretty boring and spotted atleast 3 mistakes

1. I know Xan didn't mean it this way, but Buffy hasn't been THE slayer since season 1, he could have phrased it differently
2. Buffy died twice? did he just forget about the 3rd time?
3. How does Dawn go from being porcelain in one panel to wooden in the next?

but oh well, Dawn got naked! Making this issue one of the top 3 =D
 

AndrewCrossett

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Ok, i just read it, thought it was pretty boring and spotted atleast 3 mistakes

1. I know Xan didn't mean it this way, but Buffy hasn't been THE slayer since season 1, he could have phrased it differently
I think he meant "THE Slayer" in the sense of the one all the others look up to... the person everyone thinks of when they hear the words "the Slayer."

2. Buffy died twice? did he just forget about the 3rd time?
If he did, so did I... Prophecy Girl, The Gift... what was the 3rd time?

3. How does Dawn go from being porcelain in one panel to wooden in the next?
"Porcelain" dolls usually only have heads made of porcelain... their bodies are either wood or cloth.

but oh well, Dawn got naked! Making this issue one of the top 3 =D
Definitely. :)
 

Clem Rocks

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I think he meant "THE Slayer" in the sense of the one all the others look up to... the person everyone thinks of when they hear the words "the Slayer.
I know, that's why i said that's not what he meant, i just think they could have worded it better


If he did, so did I... Prophecy Girl, The Gift... what was the 3rd time?
Flatlining after being shot by Warren


"Porcelain" dolls usually only have heads made of porcelain... their bodies are either wood or cloth.
Really? i thought atleast the arms and legs were too?
 

Buffyverse Fan

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Flatlining after being shot by Warren
I have to agree with you.

I know, that's why i said that's not what he meant, i just think they could have worded it better
I actually think that Buffy is "The Slayer." Maybe not officially, but none of the other Slayers know what it's like to lead the battle against evil and have the weight of the world on their shoulders.


Scott Allie explains that "Twilight" is the overall title of the season, as used by him and Joss... his note in #20 referred to the fact that this issue would have a turning point in the "Twilight" series, not in regards to the character Twilight. Which is all very confusing. But Georges Jeanty has seemed to suggest that T's identity won't be revealed until later on, toward the end of the season.
Thanks for clearing that up. That is very confusing.

I loved this issue. The character voices were back, the dialog popped, and the final scene with Buffy and Dawn was well worth the ride. (Although I admit to being a little disappointed that the explanation for Dawn's transformations was so simple.)
I agree that the dialog was spot on, but overall I wouldn't say this issue was great.
 

Cohen

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I liked this issue. I liked how it went back to the whole Dawn/Buffy fighting thing and resolved it. And it resolved the transmogrifying story-arc. Which is good. Cause I'm done with the many faces of Dawn thing. And the one panel of Dawn's hair in a bun was a spot-on accurate picture of Dawn.

And the dialogue WAS done really well.

It was a good quality episode. Not so much loving the way the thricewise looks.. but okay. I wish more coulda been done with the Gepetto guy to explain what in the hell he was doing in the woods with dolls.. but okay.

All in all.. not the worst comic so far. It actually improved because of the dialogue imo.
 

GrimsWatcher

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Maybe the best issue of this arc. The worst goes to the Harmony issue. I'm still not buying the idea that vampires are popular and accepted. Quite a stretch to me. They haven't even explained why the public is okay with vamps, I hope they do eventually. Living Doll was rushed, but still solid enough. It's time to move the story forward though.
 

The Chosen

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I liked this one! Georges' art was better this time around, less sloppy. Especially in the close ups of doll Dawn. Those were nice.

GrimsWatcher said:
It's time to move the story forward though.
I agree!
 

UnKle

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Flatlining after being shot by Warren
It's weird, she obviously kicked the bucket (flatline, which means the heart has stopped functioning, which means the blood isn't pumping, which means there's no oxygen going to the brain, which means brain death, which means death). I always have trouble remembering this one. Perhaps because it was even more instantaneous than when she drowned.

Now, my thoughts to the issue: I really liked it. I liked it more than I thought I would, and I got it and held off reading it for 2 weeks because of the supreme disappointment that was "Safe". Then I had to actually force myself to read it. But then a few pages in, when Buffy starts the bitchfest about Dawn whilst simultaneously complaining about dressing like Wolverine? I knew I would love the issue.

The character voices, the cadence, the timing, the quirks and idiosyncrasies, returned. Because I was enjoying myself so much, I even made an effort to read slower, and savor each panel, so that it wouldn't be over in 5.2 minutes. I took about 15 minutes to read it and really loved it. This issue shaped up to feel like classic BtVS storytelling to me.

Also, I was relieved that the whole thricewise shapeshifting storyline is over. Wow, I'm glad. I still don't understand the importance of that storyline. It's like they didn't want Dawn out of the picture, so they thrust a lame subplot upon her to keep her relevant. Meh.

Now that Dawn's free, I hope she takes a position in Buffy's army. I think she'd be great working alongside Xander, but with her own responsibilities. I know she was always upset that she wasn't a potential, but for a girl who only came into being at at 15, I'm sure it wasn't even possible. Has she come to terms with that, considering how much she idolizes Buffy? I'm hoping she sees that she has something valuable to contribute to the work they're doing, and that she doesn't just take up a support position under someone else.

And hopefully, she and Buffy finally got some downtime to do the sisterly bonding thing. Which I'm sure they haven't been able to do since... well... hardly ever. I'm trying to think of when they've actually sat down and purposefully spent time together, just to hang out, maybe go shopping, shoot the breeze, or lay around and watch TV... and the instances that are coming to mind are small and rare.

One final thing: the comments at the end put a dark spin on the issue, and possibly the future. I don't see this convo as throwaway, or the final line as dismissive. Things like that have a funny way of acting as giant anvils being dropped to warn of what's coming.

Obviously, something big is around the corner, judging by rumors, and this is obviously set up as a cliffhanger for that.
 

Kanazaka

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I liked Dawn's conversations with Kenny and Buffy at the end of the story, since the dialogue was believable and the relationships felt true (as they should). Plus, nice banter between Buffy and Xander, Dawn looked cool as a doll, and props for the Veronica Mars references--although I shouldn't be surprised, as Joss Whedon is a fan of the show.
 

Black Eye Guy

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This for me was the weakest issue of the series so far.

There was very little I liked about it. It felt so rushed, like they just wanted to end the Dawn story, which I'm glad they did because her shape changing wasn't as interesting as it could have been.

I hate the work Thricewise, Hated the cover of this one, and the design of the Thricewise. I think it's the perfect example of not needing to do something like that just cuz you can.

I think its a bit to convenient that there just happened to be a puppet makers house out in the Scottish countryside where Dawn just happens to turn into a doll.

I'm glad Dawn is back to normal, and hope this is the last of the whiny Dawn, I don't like they brought her back considering how must we saw her grow in Season 7.
 

Robb Stark

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This for me was the weakest issue of the series so far.

There was very little I liked about it. It felt so rushed, like they just wanted to end the Dawn story, which I'm glad they did because her shape changing wasn't as interesting as it could have been.

I hate the work Thricewise, Hated the cover of this one, and the design of the Thricewise. I think it's the perfect example of not needing to do something like that just cuz you can.

I think its a bit to convenient that there just happened to be a puppet makers house out in the Scottish countryside where Dawn just happens to turn into a doll.

I'm glad Dawn is back to normal, and hope this is the last of the whiny Dawn, I don't like they brought her back considering how must we saw her grow in Season 7.
I just read this one last night and yeah...it was incredibly dumb. It was like they started the Dawn story with high hopes, nobody really bit on it and then they just got tired and ended it as quickly as possible.

The dollmaker or whatever he was made no sense whatsoever. I had no idea what was going on with him. There was zero explanation of what his problem was, why he was so nuts or what he was trying to do. Buffy just rolled in and there he and Dawn were. And yeah, the whole thricewise thing was really weird, from start to finish. I mean, what was even the point of that in the first place? Why have that...I don't even know if I can call it an arc...at all? Did they just have zero idea of what to do with Dawn for the first 25 issues? Plus, the whole conversation she had with Buffy at the end just felt like a rehash of the S7 story between them, which was essentially a rehash of their arc together in S6, which pretty much just took the important elements of Dawn needing to feel important in S5. They have a great character in Dawn, but it just feels like they have no idea what do with her, ever.

Really, really strange issue. The only really cool thing about it was the Veronica Mars lines. As one of my favorite shows ever, that was awesome to see.
 
Black Eye Guy
Black Eye Guy
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Black Eye Guy

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I just read this one last night and yeah...it was incredibly dumb. It was like they started the Dawn story with high hopes, nobody really bit on it and then they just got tired and ended it as quickly as possible.

The dollmaker or whatever he was made no sense whatsoever. I had no idea what was going on with him. There was zero explanation of what his problem was, why he was so nuts or what he was trying to do. Buffy just rolled in and there he and Dawn were. And yeah, the whole thricewise thing was really weird, from start to finish. I mean, what was even the point of that in the first place? Why have that...I don't even know if I can call it an arc...at all? Did they just have zero idea of what to do with Dawn for the first 25 issues? Plus, the whole conversation she had with Buffy at the end just felt like a rehash of the S7 story between them, which was essentially a rehash of their arc together in S6, which pretty much just took the important elements of Dawn needing to feel important in S5. They have a great character in Dawn, but it just feels like they have no idea what do with her, ever.

Really, really strange issue. The only really cool thing about it was the Veronica Mars lines. As one of my favorite shows ever, that was awesome to see.
Yeah the Veronica Mars refrences were a highlight.

I think your spot on, I think they weren't sure what to do with Dawn, they wanted to give her a grown up storyline, and their are parralles with Buffy's bad experience with sex, they should have played up that and have them bond over that.

Instead they chose to but Dawn back in her whiny teenage mode for no good reason, when her character had moved on.
We'd seen Dawn take on a watchers role in season, it would have been brilliant to carry that on.
 
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