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Discussion of 8.31 "Turbulence" - Released 1/13/10 (Dark Horse)

Tranquillity

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Buffy the Vampire Slayer Season 8 #31 (Jo Chen cover)
Writer: Joss Whedon
Penciller: Georges Jeanty


After Willow unearths giant Tibetan goddesses to help in the fight against Twilight and his disposable soldiers, the Slayers are forced to retreat when the goddesses go AWOL and attack indiscriminately. Without powers the Slayers are unable to keep up the fight against missile fire, grenade launchers, and tanks. It would seem that all is lost, and Buffy -- all alone -- must make her last stand on a battlefield covered in the bodies of friends and foes.

Series artist Georges Jeanty reunites with Buffy creator Joss Whedon for this very special Season Eight one-shot.
Discuss...
 

GrimsWatcher

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I enjoyed this one, and I feel it's better than anything they did in 2009, which was a mostly terrible year for season 8 in my opinion.

The Xander/Buffy conversation was nice, although rushed. Talk about fast resolve, but I understand it has to move quickly with the limited space.

I have a feeling this year will be the best year of Buffy since 2007. Been a long time. I really wish I didn't know who Twilight is though. Kind of frustrating.
 

AndrewCrossett

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Sineya
I liked how mature and adult Buffy and Xander were with their conversation. Back during the TV show this would have been accompanied by floods of tears and angst galore and hurt feelings that would take half a season to heal. I think we were meant to see how far they've come emotionally.
 
S
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Don

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i made a thread for this book at about 3:00 pm today, so who's ever in charge of deleting stuff can go ahead and delete it.


I'm wondering if the burst of energy that willow gets is from Buffy killing her in the future. I don't have much to back that up, but it'd be cool. Also, that would support multiple simultaneous timelines, and would open up a lot for the fray stuff with season 8.

It was cool to see Willow and Buffy flying and fighting together. It was great to hear Buffy call xander a paedophile. It was great to hear xander call buffy out for being selfish. best issue in months--possibly since 2008.

It's a shame Joss didn't write more of the series. Goddard's and BKV's arcs were great but predators and prey and retreat were seriously lacking. The latter two had their moments, but they were few and far between. I would've much rather had a year of quality issues like today's than a year of anti-climax and muddy waters.

Also, here's something to discuss: There's a letter in the letterscol that mentions how Buffy doesn't know Spike is alive. We've all been curious as to how she'll react to that information. Well, I'm afraid we might be disappointed on that front, should it come up. Scott's reply begins with, "I don't think anyone ever said that Buffy doesn't know Spike is alive. It hasn't played into this story, so we haven't talked about it, but one must assume a lot of conversations have taken place off-panel, including conversations with Andrew."

This bothered me. Why should the readers assume that such a huge development was handled off-panel? What else has happened off-panel that we're supposed to just assume?
 
Tranquillity
Tranquillity
thanks, you were just a little bit quicker than me :)

Tranquillity

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This was such a great issue. Joss is the master.
I loved Xander and Buffy's conversation. It was spot on perfect
Really loved Twilight saying "And your name will come back to me..." about Andrew. Very funny stuff.

Don Said:
Also, here's something to discuss: There's a letter in the letterscol that mentions how Buffy doesn't know Spike is alive. We've all been curious as to how she'll react to that information. Well, I'm afraid we might be disappointed on that front, should it come up. Scott's reply begins with, "I don't think anyone ever said that Buffy doesn't know Spike is alive. It hasn't played into this story, so we haven't talked about it, but one must assume a lot of conversations have taken place off-panel, including conversations with Andrew."

This bothered me. Why should the readers assume that such a huge development was handled off-panel? What else has happened off-panel that we're supposed to just assume?
I agree and after reading this morning that Joss 'has plans' for Spike I'm taking Scott Allie's reply with a of salt or as covering tracks.
 

Willow-Tree

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^^ I agree with that too. It's kind of a slap in the face, as well, to anyone and everyone that's ever liked the idea of Spike/Buffy better than Angel/Buffy.

I'm kind of disturbed that this is the case...
 

Joan the Vampire Slayer

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WHOA!

Wow. This issue was fantastic. It's pretty obvious that it was written by Joss. I agree with Tranquility; all the character's dialogue was so in character. It almost felt like the show for a moment.

Buffy/Xander/Dawn Triangle - what to even say?

Surprisingly, I am warming up to the two together. Xander and Dawn seem, though, to be progressing way more quickly then I had anticipated. They're in...love? Since when? I don't agree with Xander's comment that Dawn has loved him her whole life, necessarily. Having a crush on and loving someone is a very different thing!

Despite Dawn's constant insecurity regarding their relationship, I think I'm OK at this point with Dander. I am so happy for Xander if he is really in love with her. Xander deserves a good relationship, after what happened with him and Anya. I'll always be a Xanya shipper, but I guess I'm learning to deal with Dander.

Bander, though. That's a different story entirely.

I like how Xander acknowledged the "weird" factor of him dating Dawn. His comment on "she's grown up...she's not the same" is very true. For all the characters.

I realized that in my insistance that Dander is a bad idea , I wasn't giving Dawn enough credit. She deserves to be happy with whoever she wants. I'll always think of her as little Dawnie, though.

The brilliance of this conversation between Buffy and Xander can not be overstated. I think I just fell in love with Xander a little bit. Really. The maturity and sensitivity that he showed in how he handled his conversation with Buffy was truly exceptional. This conversation proved what I've been saying all along; what Xander is not in love with Buffy, that in fact, he hasn't been for years. He's in love with Dawn, now. And you know what? I think it's great. :)

I love how Xander said, "That would be great. If it was a bunch of years ago and you actually meant it." Boy, did he put her in her place! But in a sweet and loving way, I thought. GO Xander! The irony is so awesome in this scene. I love how Buffy's face characteristically scrunches up when he says that and he replies with "Puh. LEAZE."
HA! So Xander. A remark he'd totally make.

And last but not least, I love their hug at the end. One of the things I've always loved so much about Buffy is her and Xander's friendship. This exchange just reinforced that which I've always said; that Xander and Buffy's bond transcends love; it's friendship in it's purest and trust form. Xander knew Buffy was just lonely, that she could never really see him as more than a friend. What they have is so much BETTER than romance.

Dawn's insecurity regarding Buffy and Xander is getting old. If she's a "grown woman" as Buffy says, maybe she should start acting like one?

Twilight's comments are mighty cryptic, that's for sure. What's up with his comments regarding Giles and Faith? Buffy's "trust" and her "guilt"? What is he implying? Is he planning on...killing them both? (And Andrew?) Poor Faith and Giles. What will become of them?

Hard to believe Buffy doesn't notice Giles, Andrew, and Faith are gone. Guess she's too busy attempting to start a romance with and crying over Xander. (OK, that was harsh...but come on Buffy! Where's out little general when we need her?)

The state of Riley: where in the hell is Sam? Why hasn't she been mentioned? Seems strange Riley hasn't mentioned her, or Xander hasn't asked about her. Maybe I missed something. Could someone clear this up for me?

Interesting how the fallen/hurt soldier asked Buffy if she was "in love." She doesn't answer; why? She looks very sad, though.

But...what I really want to talk about is the letters section.

Please divert your attention to the 3rd letter in the "Slay the Critics" section. In this letter, the author Heather asks:

Buffy...still has no idea Spike is alive? Will we ever see Buffy and Spike reunite, even for a moment?
Scott's answer is this:
I don't think anyone ever said that Buffy doesn't know Spike is alive. It hasn't played into this story...one must assume that a lot of conversations have taken place off-panel, inculding conversations with Andrew.
I...don't even know how to handle this. Is Scott saying what Buffy does know Spike is alive? That we are assume that Andrew has told her (like I'd always suspected)?

Wow.

I was operating under the hope that the only reason why Buffy hasn't made the effort to contact Spike was because she didn't know he was alive. If she does know he is alive and kickin' and still hasn't bothered to contact him, we can pretty much assume that she simply doesn't care.

This is a sad, sad day for Spuffies indeed. I feel just gutted.

How do other Spuffies feel about this? I'll post this in my Spuffy thread as well.

Overall, GREAT issue. Go Joss!
 

Kana

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I've actually liked Dawn since Season 7 but I never saw Xander and Dawn as a couple but both of them have grown and matured. For Xander to her as an adult totally makes sense because she is. I must admit, I was kind of pulling for Bander with Buffy's admission but seeing what he said about Dawn made me accept it and respect him more. Really liked the issue.
 

Kean

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I find it very interesting that the last two men that Buffy has claimed to love have rejected that claim and said she doesn't. I would almost certainly dismiss those rejections if the men in question didn't know her so damn well. I'm just wondering what this means for Buffy and the choices she is making. Buffy has made some very amoral calls in the last, well 3 seasons, and Twilight is trying to avert something apparently heinous that will be committed by Buffy and her Slayers. Is Buffy's judgement that skewed that she not only does not know herself but doesn't know right from wrong anymore?
 
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
This is a great observation. It does seem like she is a bit lost lately. Maybe she's losing track of who she is and who she really wants?

sosa lola

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I find it very interesting that the last two men that Buffy has claimed to love have rejected that claim and said she doesn't. I would almost certainly dismiss those rejections if the men in question didn't know her so damn well.
I think it's more to do with those men's insecurities and Buffy's actions. Buffy said she loved Spike when he's about to die, not to mention the whole episode with the Angel kissage right after she told Spike that their special night shouldn't mean anything. As for Xander, she only opened up to him after he became an item with Dawn, if Buffy confessed those feelings before instead of suggesting he should ask Renee out, then he'd probably believed her, and maybe became her boyfriend.
 

Kean

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I think it's more to do with those men's insecurities and Buffy's actions. Buffy said she loved Spike when he's about to die, not to mention the whole episode with the Angel kissage right after she told Spike that their special night shouldn't mean anything. As for Xander, she only opened up to him after he became an item with Dawn, if Buffy confessed those feelings before instead of suggesting he should ask Renee out, then he'd probably believed her, and maybe became her boyfriend.
Hmm, I see your point but I still think there is more too it. Xander appears to be very sure of his feelings and where he stands right now. I'm really not convinced that even if Buffy had this convo with him before he asked Renee out his reponse would have been much different. As you pointed out in your other thread Xander has been so sure of himself this season, sure of his place and who he is as a man.

I suppose I'll have to reserve my judgement until the season is done but it does worry me that Buffy appears to be this unsettled and uncertain.
 

sosa lola

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Xander appears to be very sure of his feelings and where he stands right now. I'm really not convinced that even if Buffy had this convo with him before he asked Renee out his reponse would have been much different. As you pointed out in your other thread Xander has been so sure of himself this season, sure of his place and who he is as a man.
You're right. I remember in #2 when Amy told Xander that only someone who's in love with Buffy could wake her up with a kiss. Xander didn't even try, he knew he was over Buffy, that his kiss would be useless. So, he'd probably reject her even then, but I don't think he'd dismiss or doubt that she loved him if she said it that early. When he was single.
 

white avenger

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Let me begin by saying that I have not read this issue yet, so all that I am going on is what I have read here, and I can't guarantee that I didn't miss something while reading, so please bear with me.

Okay, several things here. There are any number of things that COULD have occurred "off panel" that we aren't aware of. Buffy could have married a kilted Scottish Highlander who turned out to be a Fyaryl demon using a glamour so that she wouldn't know until it was too late. Willow brought Tara back, but she came back as a zombie and ate half of Andrew's brain. Dana recovered from her delusionary state and is now heading a Slayer team in New Zealand. Giles spent six months working as a male stripper in Las Vegas. Or Buffy could have found out that Spike had returned from the even more dead and was working with Angel in Los Angeles. Why should we believe any one more than the other? Any one of those events would have been important, or at least SIGNIFICANT enough that it would have been virtually impossible NOT to have mentioned it "on panel" at some point. Until I actually see something ON PANEL that verifies that Buffy knows that Spike is back, I'm not buying it. We've been mislead or plain lied to too many times before, and I say that, not as a Spuffy shipper, but as a fan of the series. That would have to be just too big a scene NOT to show.

As for Xander setting Buffy straight, I say Good For Xander. With the exception of dear old Parker, Buffy has been able to wrap practically every male she's ever encountered, including Sid the Dummy, around her little finger. It's about time someone was able to withstand her charms, and I'm glad that it was Xander who got the honor.

As for the conspicuously missing Sam, and this is strictly my theory, she was just too perfect and sweet to be true in the first place. The whole marriage thing was some sort of cover story, or she just got fed up with all of Riley's corn fed good ol' boy personality and walked out. Take your pick.

And as for Buffy's reluctance to admit that she loved anyone else until she told Spike in "Chosen," that's somewhat understandable, considering that the only other man who she ever admitted to loving tried to kill all of her friends, tried to destroy the world, had to be sent to hell with a sword in his chest, a sword that Buffy had placed there herself, and had a curse set upon himself that forbade their ever having any kind of contact much more intimate that a couple of teenagers on their second date. An experience like that would make just about anyone reluctant to start any kind of new relationship, let alone ever admit to any deep feelings for them.

As for why she finally took the plunge and declared her true feelings for Spike, it's perfectly understandable. Some men are just so charming that, in the end, they are utterly irresistible. It's a cross that we bear, and also a great responsibility, as well as a struggle NOT to break ever feminine heart that we come in contact with. The stories that I could tell...
 
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
:) I'm not buying it, either. In my little fantasy, Buff still doesn't know Spike's alive.

Buffyverse Fan

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Wow. This issue was fantastic. It's pretty obvious that it was written by Joss. I agree with Tranquility; all the character's dialogue was so in character. It almost felt like the show for a moment.
Agreed

Twilight's comments are mighty cryptic, that's for sure. What's up with his comments regarding Giles and Faith? Buffy's "trust" and her "guilt"? What is he implying? Is he planning on...killing them both? (And Andrew?) Poor Faith and Giles. What will become of them?

Hard to believe Buffy doesn't notice Giles, Andrew, and Faith are gone. Guess she's too busy attempting to start a romance with and crying over Xander. (OK, that was harsh...but come on Buffy! Where's out little general when we need her?)
It's a stretch, but it's not unbelievable, there is a spell in play after all. Compared to Groosalugg in Deep Down, that was nothing. If you recall, Groosalugg left LA, only telling Cordy about his departure, then Cordy & Angel disappeared, and no one seemed to care that Groo was also missing.

And re "trust" and "guilt," I think it's pretty straight forward. Giles has been Buffy's (mostly) trusted mentor, and Faith probably represents the most shameful aspect of Buffy's stint as Slayer. While not Buffy's fault, she still never gave Faith the kind of fair shake only Angel managed.

The state of Riley: where in the hell is Sam? Why hasn't she been mentioned? Seems strange Riley hasn't mentioned her, or Xander hasn't asked about her. Maybe I missed something. Could someone clear this up for me?
Nope, no mention's been made, but I doubt Joss has forgotten...

I...don't even know how to handle this. Is Scott saying what Buffy does know Spike is alive? That we are assume that Andrew has told her (like I'd always suspected)?

Wow.

I was operating under the hope that the only reason why Buffy hasn't made the effort to contact Spike was because she didn't know he was alive. If she does know he is alive and kickin' and still hasn't bothered to contact him, we can pretty much assume that she simply doesn't care.

This is a sad, sad day for Spuffies indeed. I feel just gutted.

How do other Spuffies feel about this? I'll post this in my Spuffy thread as well.

Overall, GREAT issue. Go Joss!
It's just bizarre, I lean slightly towards BAngel, solely because I believe that Joss and therefore Buffy also does. But the fact that Spuffy has been a major plot-point for three seasons, and was arguably Buffy's most mature relationship, would leave me feeling cheated if the big reveal of the hero of S7's resurrection happened off screen.

Who knows, maybe S9 will have a masked Big Bad named "True Blood" who turns out to be Spike ;)


I find it very interesting that the last two men that Buffy has claimed to love have rejected that claim and said she doesn't.
And then there's Riley too, her year-long boyfriend who she probably never loved
 

AndrewCrossett

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Sineya
As for Xander setting Buffy straight, I say Good For Xander. With the exception of dear old Parker, Buffy has been able to wrap practically every male she's ever encountered, including Sid the Dummy, around her little finger. It's about time someone was able to withstand her charms, and I'm glad that it was Xander who got the honor.
It really wasn't a Buffy vs. Xander thing at all. This was two characters having a discussion about their feelings like adults, working things out, and staying friends. There were no (non-joking) insults, no hurt feelings that will take a season to heal, no words anyone will have to regret.

It was a really great showcase of how far they have come emotionally since their high school days, and it sets them on the right track for the challenges they're going to face next.
 
white avenger
white avenger
Well, as I said, I am only going on what I read here, since my copy hasn't arrived yet.

LyteHouse

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I absolutely loved the line "Because of sad."

That's such a chucklesome Buffy-quote.

I'm going to be using that in conversation now. :biggrin2:
 
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