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Discussion of Angel 11.03 "Out of the Past. Part 3" - Released 3/15/17 (Dark Horse)

Buffy Summers

Yataro
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#1
As the battle between Illyria of the past and an invading god escalates, Fred is caught in the middle while Angel tries to figure a way to prevent the foretold disaster and get them back to the future . . . safe . . . And able to save the world again.

Source: Dark Horse
 
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#2
I've not read it yet, and to be honest I'm not looking forward to it. This season of Angel has been such a let down. Is anyone out there reading this?
 
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#3
Well we are still in Illyria's world, which is pretty dull. Miss Faith and Fred/Illyria is really no substitute. I wouldn't recommend these comics to anyone, they are just not interesting enough, unless you are in love with Illyria and need to know her whole history :( Such a shame because Buffy S11 is so great, and we might get to see Faith there soon :)
 

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#6
I think we are among the few who are reading this. I was a bit behind on the angel comics and only caught up now.

What do you think is the biggest problem this season?
 
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#7
I think we are among the few who are reading this. I was a bit behind on the angel comics and only caught up now.

What do you think is the biggest problem this season?
I miss Faith. Angel and Faith worked so well together, she definitely added to his character and gave a perspective on Angel that we aren't seeing from Fred in S11.

Illyria is boring me. I am bored with her world and her story. I am not attached to her as a character and we've now been stuck on her world for 3 issues. I thought this season would be about Angel and his past, but have we really seen any of that?

Are you enjoying S11? What would you change, if anything?
 

Foxy

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#8
I miss Faith. Angel and Faith worked so well together, she definitely added to his character and gave a perspective on Angel that we aren't seeing from Fred in S11.

Illyria is boring me. I am bored with her world and her story. I am not attached to her as a character and we've now been stuck on her world for 3 issues. I thought this season would be about Angel and his past, but have we really seen any of that?

Are you enjoying S11? What would you change, if anything?
I miss Faith too, but then again in season 10 their story was very...divided. I think I would have liked to see season 11 with Faith doing a bit of a monster of the week type of thing. While she comes to terms with being on the right track and adulthood. Perhaps even a side story of her becoming bored with her own rhythm.

I was already annoyed in season 10 by Fred as she is one of my least favourite characters. I do like Illyria and loved how she was in season 9 of Buffy, but I always enjoyed the mystery that surrounded her.

I think there are several small points in season 11 of Angel that are ticking me off. The art is ok sometimes and pushes the boundaries, I really enjoyed how the poltergeist thing was done in issue 1 and 2. However, that is it really, because the characters do not resemble the actors at all. Even Fred's clothing style is incorrect.

Another issue is the promise of this season, like you said: Angel's part, but then it is about Illyria? The writing and dialogue seems off in general.

Finally, the going to the past and changing the future has been done to death and it could have been more original. I would have liked to see them go back to Angel's past and then him not ever getting his soul because he never killed the gypsy. Then we could see all the horrible things that happened to the world. I would have really enjoyed that.
 
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#9
I miss Faith too, but then again in season 10 their story was very...divided. I think I would have liked to see season 11 with Faith doing a bit of a monster of the week type of thing. While she comes to terms with being on the right track and adulthood. Perhaps even a side story of her becoming bored with her own rhythm.

I was already annoyed in season 10 by Fred as she is one of my least favourite characters. I do like Illyria and loved how she was in season 9 of Buffy, but I always enjoyed the mystery that surrounded her.

I think there are several small points in season 11 of Angel that are ticking me off. The art is ok sometimes and pushes the boundaries, I really enjoyed how the poltergeist thing was done in issue 1 and 2. However, that is it really, because the characters do not resemble the actors at all. Even Fred's clothing style is incorrect.

Another issue is the promise of this season, like you said: Angel's part, but then it is about Illyria? The writing and dialogue seems off in general.

Finally, the going to the past and changing the future has been done to death and it could have been more original. I would have liked to see them go back to Angel's past and then him not ever getting his soul because he never killed the gypsy. Then we could see all the horrible things that happened to the world. I would have really enjoyed that.

Agree so much about Fred, she adds nothing to the story and I think Faith would have. Like you say, even Fred's clothes aren't right, never mind their dialogue.

Really good idea about Angel going back and not getting his soul, I would love to see how that played out
 
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#10
Well I'm slightly surprised by you guys' disdain for the series, but after pondering my post for a bit I've kind of realized that the only reason I enjoyed it is because my expectations are incredibly low for this series. I too am super tired of Illyria/Fred. Just for some context, I adore Fred, and think Illyria's story in AS5/AtF was pretty interesting, but find the character overall a tad... unstimulating? I feel like there's really nothing for me to latch on to, and the fact that they keep bringing Fred back (after I had already gone through the grieving process and came to terms with knowing that she'd never come back) is really quite a bummer.
EDIT: Also, it seems like comic writers have a real problem with getting Fred's voice right.
Regardless of all of that, I'm actually finding myself enjoying the series overall. The Old Ones are always a treat to see in action, and although it is frustrating that we're not getting a story about Angel's past, at least the theme of 'your past coming back to haunt you' is prevalent.
Honestly though, I could not have any lower expectations for this series. I dropped A&FS10 halfway through because it was so boring (my first ever dropped Whedon comic), the writer is some rando that no one's heard of, the art is VERY bland (and at times straight-up ugly). the coloring is some of the most lifeless, chalk-boardy coloring I've ever seen, and most importantly, it just feels like Dark Horse has abandoned this property. They obviously don't care if they're going to hire no-names to write the series. I don't want to be too harsh on the talent because at the end of the day, they're just trying to follow their passions and/or make a living, but I just feel like, if DH cared, they would've hired ANYONE else. Angel (and the rest of the Whedonverse) deserves high-quality talent like Christos Gage and Rebekah Isaacs (sp?). These comics could be something special (and money-making) if they would just put a little more effort into it.


I would have liked to see them go back to Angel's past and then him not ever getting his soul because he never killed the gypsy. Then we could see all the horrible things that happened to the world. I would have really enjoyed that.
OMG yes, that's a great idea.
 
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#11
Well I'm slightly surprised by you guys' disdain for the series, but after pondering my post for a bit I've kind of realized that the only reason I enjoyed it is because my expectations are incredibly low for this series. I too am super tired of Illyria/Fred. Just for some context, I adore Fred, and think Illyria's story in AS5/AtF was pretty interesting, but find the character overall a tad... unstimulating? I feel like there's really nothing for me to latch on to, and the fact that they keep bringing Fred back (after I had already gone through the grieving process and came to terms with knowing that she'd never come back) is really quite a bummer.
This is meant to be Angel's story and so far it's had very little to do with him or his past. The central character, the heart of the story, has been Illyria, and I don't believe anyone cares more about her than Angel. My growing boredom of the Illyria story is also affecting how I view Fred and I have just about had enough of her too. S10 A&F was so much better than this imo.

I think your low expectations have helped :) I have enjoyed the comics and although I was upset that Faith had been cut out of the title, I still had hopes that this could be good and very Angel-centric. I was hoping for some real insight and some world-changing shift, like Angel was made human, or never got his soul, or something different, just feels like they've run out of ideas.
 
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#12
This is meant to be Angel's story and so far it's had very little to do with him or his past. The central character, the heart of the story, has been Illyria, and I don't believe anyone cares more about her than Angel. My growing boredom of the Illyria story is also affecting how I view Fred and I have just about had enough of her too. S10 A&F was so much better than this imo.

I think your low expectations have helped :) I have enjoyed the comics and although I was upset that Faith had been cut out of the title, I still had hopes that this could be good and very Angel-centric. I was hoping for some real insight and some world-changing shift, like Angel was made human, or never got his soul, or something different, just feels like they've run out of ideas.
Agreed on all points. I was hoping for the return of Gunn.
 

Grace

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#13
On reread, the thing that stands out about this issue is that there are two "flower problem" situations -- where acting makes things worse, but not acting means terrible things are going to happen.

Future Illyria can't fight the interloper in her kingdom because that leads her subjects to try to help, and the interloper gets more powerful when he eats them. But if she doesn't do anything, she knows her past self will destroy everything with the volcano. Her solution is to kill her past self (which Angel objects to, not knowing what it will mean for Fred).

The pacifist demons who lured the interloper to the kingdom have a similar dilemma. They tried to end violence by getting the interloper and past Illyria to kill each other, but it didn't go so well. They try to make things right, but instead make things worse -- they magically enhance the interloper, making him bigger. Their solution, after a vote, is to do nothing.

The connection in both is that they are missing crucial information. Both past and future Illyria have no idea that the interloper they are fighting is magically enhanced and potentially invincible. The pacifist demons don't know that past Illyria intends to trigger a volcanic eruption that will kill them all.

It did make me think of Angel's words to Illyria when she starts to throw them into the past in #1: "No! I haven't told you everything yet!"
I'm wondering if there's some piece of information about the vision that Angel has not shared that will be relevant in the last issue? Or maybe we find out in the next arc -- I can't remember. Or maybe it's just a way to create a cliffhanger-y ending that never gets followed up on? :)
 

Buffy Summers

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#14
I find myself getting annoyed with the Fred-Illyria back and forth. I also am not sure I believe Illyria cares this much about "writing her wrong". This definitely did not need to be 2+ issues long lol

And that cheesy line from Angel to Fred: "you're pretty good at making anywhere feel more like home." Gag.
 

thetopher

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#16
This issue was a little bit better than what came before. I mean, at least Angel is actively doing stuff and uncovering the cause of the 'usurper' demon's appearance.
I also quite like the background detail; its evocative enough to make remember those old Claremont issues where the X-Men would get stuck in the Savage Land and have to fight evil tribes people.
- Clearly this arc hinges on people being invested in Illyria even when she isn't acting particularly in-character. Hmn, to me her characters been a bit of mess since her return in Buffy S9 (yeah, that was lame).
- The Fred/Illyria back and forth is getting tiresome. Better if they'd stuck with Illyria for a good long stretch, this arc is meant to be about her.
- Fred comment about taking to the cave has been the only line that felt remotely 'Fred-like', because it was kinda quirky and was a call-back to her origins in Pylea. Although Angel's reply was gag-worthy.
- So its official that they can change the past; since Angel rescued those pacifist demons and now one of their ancestors in dating one of the aunts. :eek:

A lot of this is going to depend on what sort of payoff there is in the next issue.
Oh dear.
 
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#17
I feel like there's really nothing for me to latch on to, and the fact that they keep bringing Fred back (after I had already gone through the grieving process and came to terms with knowing that she'd never come back) is really quite a bummer.
EDIT: Also, it seems like comic writers have a real problem with getting Fred's voice right.
I don't want to be too harsh on the talent because at the end of the day, they're just trying to follow their passions and/or make a living, but I just feel like, if DH cared, they would've hired ANYONE else. Angel (and the rest of the Whedonverse) deserves high-quality talent like Christos Gage and Rebekah Isaacs (sp?). These comics could be something special (and money-making) if they would just put a little more effort into it..
I have tried to get over the fact that Fred is back, but feel like you do, that it undercuts all the previous emotion. And now that she is back she doesn't seem to be doing anything interesting apart from being Angel's sidekick while Faith is written out of it.

They have such great characters, loyal fans and an amazing universe, it seems sad they're not putting better talent into the comics, I liked Christos Gage and Rebekah Isaacs so much more.
 
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