• This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn more.
  • Thank you for visiting Buffy-Boards. You obviously have exceptional taste. We just want you to know that:
    1. You really should register so you can chat with us!
    2. Twelve thousand people can't be wrong.
    3. Buffy-Boards loves you.
    4. See 1 through 3.
    Come on, register already!

Discussion of Angel 11.04 - Released 4/19/17 (Dark Horse)

Buffy Summers

Yataro
Staff member
Joined
Nov 20, 2001
Messages
30,307
Likes
4,483
Location
The City of Angels
Sineya
#1
Angel is caught facing an unrelenting Illyria of the past, an unrelenting Illyria of the future, and an impending volcanic eruption. For him to save an entire race of demons, satisfy both Illyrias, and get himself and Fred back to the future, he will have to convince at least one of the goddesses to trust someone other than themselves—specifically, him!

Source: Dark Horse
 
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
6,093
Likes
6,909
Location
UK
#2
This is the first part of Angel S11 that I enjoyed :eek:

The cover art by Scott Fischer is gorgeous, with lots of green, red and orange.

Angel persuades Illyria that she doesn't always have to use violence to solve her problems, and that she can use reason to communicate with her enemies. The positive result even surprises Angel.

There's humour in this issue, which I don't think we've seen before in S11, with Illyria making a joke at Angel's expense, and it was actually funny.

I really enjoyed the ending because we are finaly leaving Illyria's time and moving forward into Angel's timeline, where Darla is soon to make an appearance. Exciting! :)
 

Foxy

I am cookie dough!
Joined
Dec 15, 2014
Messages
743
Likes
923
Age
22
Location
Usually the Netherlands
Sineya
#3
This is the first part of Angel S11 that I enjoyed :eek:

The cover art by Scott Fischer is gorgeous, with lots of green, red and orange.

Angel persuades Illyria that she doesn't always have to use violence to solve her problems, and that she can use reason to communicate with her enemies. The positive result even surprises Angel.

There's humour in this issue, which I don't think we've seen before in S11, with Illyria making a joke at Angel's expense, and it was actually funny.

I really enjoyed the ending because we are finaly leaving Illyria's time and moving forward into Angel's timeline, where Darla is soon to make an appearance. Exciting! :)
Should I bother reading the new comics? I read the first three issues and I hated them. Is the improvement really there?
 
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
6,093
Likes
6,909
Location
UK
#4
Should I bother reading the new comics? I read the first three issues and I hated them. Is the improvement really there?
Agreed, the first three issues were awful but I am glad I stuck with it, because #4 was actually quite readable, being entertaining and funny. It's not perfect by any means, and I still have no idea where the story is going, or even why it's happening, but I will stick with it and hope it continues to improve. So yes, if you can afford to spend money on something you may not completely enjoy, then I would say stick with it, and let's both hope it gets better :)
 

Foxy

I am cookie dough!
Joined
Dec 15, 2014
Messages
743
Likes
923
Age
22
Location
Usually the Netherlands
Sineya
#5
Agreed, the first three issues were awful but I am glad I stuck with it, because #4 was actually quite readable, being entertaining and funny. It's not perfect by any means, and I still have no idea where the story is going, or even why it's happening, but I will stick with it and hope it continues to improve. So yes, if you can afford to spend money on something you may not completely enjoy, then I would say stick with it, and let's both hope it gets better :)
Then I will give the two recent issues a read then. At the least the covers are stunning!
 
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
6,093
Likes
6,909
Location
UK
#6
Then I will give the two recent issues a read then. At the least the covers are stunning!
I really hope you like them. I haven't received the latest edition yet, but he cover art I've seen looks gorgeous, just hope the story holds up
 
Joined
Mar 23, 2017
Messages
1,342
Likes
2,524
Black Thorn
#7
The new information that future Illyria has gotten through the course of this arc (that the interloper grows more powerful when he eats her demon subjects, and that he has been magically enhanced and can likely not be defeated by direct combat) ultimately help her to solve the dilemma. She seems hopeless at first, but Angel convinces her to give it one last try. She is able to convince the demon subjects not to fight anymore, and then gets the interloper to leave.

"I must admit that I did not expect to win through avoidance, Angel. If only I had seen the truth of how to handle this when it first occurred."

Angel is a bit taken aback, too. "I usually apply force to a problem, so this is a pleasant surprise."

Then Illyria must confront her past self to stop the volcano. It doesn't go well at first. Angel says: "This doesn't have to happen. You started this, you can end it. Use your words, not your fists. Remember? Tell yourself that you will never get over the regret of this moment, that it doesn't have to be this way."

Future Illyria and past Illyria work together to stop the volcanic eruption. (And apparently change all of time, which is great??? I'm trying not to get too bogged down by the ridiculousness, though. Just hunting for clues!) Past Illyria says, "You stopped me from making a terrible mistake, Angel. I hope I can someday repay the favor."

One part about time travel also stood out for me on reread. Toward the beginning of the issue, lava is starting to come out of the volcano, so time is running short to stop it from erupting and destroying the kingdom.

Illyria: "There is no more time to spare."
Angel: "That's not true. You time travel! Take us back a little so we have more. Or move us forward. All of this already happened. Let history follow its own course."
Illyria: "I can't just carry us over one course again and yet again. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. Do you not see? Weaken just one and I risk severing the whole."

I'm not sure if that has relevance to the future, but I thought it was worth noting. Seems to preclude them from revisiting any of the time periods in question to fix things.
 
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
6,093
Likes
6,909
Location
UK
#8
@Grace In the previews of #12 Fred says something about Angel not being able to defeat the flower-demon-things by fighting them, and that only seems to make them stronger. So is Fred suggesting they do as Illyria did, and let the flowers do what they want to do without stopping them; pacifism, avoidance of fighting?
 
Joined
Mar 23, 2017
Messages
1,342
Likes
2,524
Black Thorn
#9
@Grace In the previews of #12 Fred says something about Angel not being able to defeat the flower-demon-things by fighting them, and that only seems to make them stronger. So is Fred suggesting they do as Illyria did, and let the flowers do what they want to do without stopping them; pacifism, avoidance of fighting?
The idea that fighting the flower just seems to make it stronger does seem to be what's leading them to throw the clothes (and the ring?) at the flower instead of directly fighting. But I don't think Fred is suggesting doing nothing at all, since the city is being destroyed. They just can't use force against the flower.

The ultimate solution in #4 was for past and future Illyria to join forces once they had all the information. Maybe that will have some relevance for Angel in the last issue? Joining forces with the previous him in that timeline, now armed with all the information he has learned during the journey to the past?
 

thetopher

Member of the Church Of Faith
Joined
Dec 23, 2013
Messages
8,714
Likes
7,276
Location
The Moot, England
Sineya
#10
Urgh.
God this was the worst. Most of it was nonsensical and all this time-travel consequence is all over the place.

So Illyria and Angel finally drive off the usurper demon- that was okay- and then, realizing that the volcano is still about to erupt, Illyria goes to confront her past self. To either talk or kill to prevent the catastrophe from happening.
In most fictional time-travel scenarios one of the basic rules is that you don't confront your past self, or at the very least you limit your interactions. Illyria is considering killing her past self...so she would then cease to exist right?
So Fred would okay because she would never be possessed and...oh forget it, this writing is beyond lazy.

The confrontation between the two Illyria's (Fred- Illyria now refers to primordial Illyria as a 'she' *facepalm*) and then Fred talking with tentacle -llyria was all awful and immensely stupid. The more you get to see of Old One Illyria the more I wish that this whole thing never happened.
And then they finally get sent back to the future by Old One Illyria and hopefully on to something me interesting. I hope that this time-travel nonsense will start to be taken a bit more seriously, or make any kind of sense, but I'm not holding my breath.